Kitchen cabinets

[John Gregory]

We have wanted to re-do our kitchen for years. We can no longer put it off. Our old fridge died and the wife wanted a new large one. So our small kitchen has a very large fridge now, but we love it.
I had always pictured us making the carcasses with 3/4" pre-finished ply What is everyone's thought of using 1/2" pre-finished ply? We are in the age group where things are much heavier than before. So we are looking for a way to make the cabinets lighter. Many pre-fabed cabinets are 1/2" stock, mostly particle board.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this matter.

[Rich Enders]

John,

I would go with pre-finished 3/4.

Better screw hold at the joints, and fewer problems attaching to the studs.

Better screw hold at the door hinges.

Easier to keep shelves straight/flat.

A stack of dinner plates, salad plates, and bowls becomes quite a load.

A more solid base for attaching the counter top.

You may want light, but the next owner will likely be seeking quality/longevity.

[John TenEyck]

Bit of a different direction, but you might consider buying IKEA cabinets and just making the doors and drawers yourself. IKEA makes a very nice cabinet as long as you don't mind white Melamine (which I actually prefer for a kitchen so I have no problem with it). You would save a ton, no, actually, several tons, of schlepping plywood and plywood parts around. I'm sure there are other alternatives; I think I read somewhere where some company will CNC all your parts for you and ship them in nice size packages.

I was reasonably young when I built our kitchen and I swore then I'd never build another unless I bought the boxes. There's no joy in cutting, finishing, and assembling boxes. To me, the savings didn't justify the pain. At this point in life, I would definitely buy the boxes.

John

[scott vroom]

I see no reason why 1/2" boxes would be a problem. I'd go with 3/4" shelving and doors, but 1/2" boxes are not uncommon.

Another method of lighting up the boxes is to use 1/4" ply tops on the uppers. Not typical but I see little downside and it would further lighten the boxes.

Perhaps someone with 1/2" carcass experience will jump in here.

[Loren Woirhaye]

1/2" melamine tends to stay flatter than 1/2" prefinished ply. You can design around this. You can if you want to keep the ply in line by running grooves in the backs of your face frames, full-width or narrow with a tongue on the ply. Biscuits works for this too.

[Peter Kelly]

CabParts over Ikea. They'll make your parts out of whatever 19mm or 16mm material you like. http://cabparts.com/products-cabinetboxes.html

Breaking down sheet goods for even a small kitchen is damned hard work without a panel saw.

[Bill Neely]

If you are open to Euro style/frameless cabinets you can install the boxes one at a time. A lot less weight to deal with than a run of face frame cabinets. I haven't used 1/2 material for cabinets but there are plenty out there.

[Jay Park]

Bit of a different direction, but you might consider buying IKEA cabinets and just making the doors and drawers yourself. IKEA makes a very nice cabinet as long as you don't mind white Melamine (which I actually prefer for a kitchen so I have no problem with it). You would save a ton, no, actually, several tons, of schlepping plywood and plywood parts around. I'm sure there are other alternatives; I think I read somewhere where some company will CNC all your parts for you and ship them in nice size packages.

I was reasonably young when I built our kitchen and I swore then I'd never build another unless I bought the boxes. There's no joy in cutting, finishing, and assembling boxes. To me, the savings didn't justify the pain. At this point in life, I would definitely buy the boxes.

John

I'm with John and go with Ikea boxes and drawers. You can add you own touch on the doors and drawer fronts.

Check this site out.

http://www.semihandmadedoors.com/

It's a local LA shop that makes custom veneer door fronts for Ikea cabinets. They charge a lot but I'm sure you a similar great look for less. And you would save a whole lot of time not making repetitive cabinet and drawer boxes.

[Jim Becker]

I regularly use 1/2" cabinet grade veneer ply for tack trunks and other cabinetry projects...glue and screw...with no issues. It's easy to add "beef" where needed without using the heavier, thicker 3/4" material. But many folks prefer 3/4" stock. 1/2" is less expensive and sheet goods with quality veneers are pricy even at "wholesale".

[Ole Anderson]

I would stick with 3/4" ply. Do you really want to skimp on what could be your most used and admired WW project? And go frameless as mentioned so you can hang one box at a time. No shame in euro style cabs.

And can you find prefinished ply in the wood you really want in your kitchen? Only place I used it was in my drawer bottoms as only Maple was available to me prefinished and I wanted Hickory.

[Bob Vavricka]

CabParts over Ikea. They'll make your parts out of whatever 19mm or 16mm material you like. http://cabparts.com/products-cabinetboxes.html

Breaking down sheet goods for even a small kitchen is damned hard work without a panel saw.
I am planning a kitchen remodel also, so I looked at the site you linked to. It looks like they use 1/4 inch backs set in a groove. I was going to download the catalog, but it looks like they require you to be a business to buy from them or download their catalog. Anyone else used this company?

[Peter Kelly]

Just add that your business name is “Your Name" Woodworking and that’s typically all Cab Parts needs. Ordering is super easy but they expect you to have your act together about what you want. I think the business name language on the site is to discourage would-be DIY types that they don’t want to do a lot of hand holding with. Great people, feel free to call them with any questions: 1 888 398 1804.

There’s also Cabinet Outsource (http://www.cabinetoutsource.com) in Southern CA. They'll make pretty much anything you want, flat pack it and ship to your job site.

[Sam Murdoch]

John,

I would go with pre-finished 3/4.

Better screw hold at the joints, and fewer problems attaching to the studs.

Better screw hold at the door hinges.

Easier to keep shelves straight/flat.

A stack of dinner plates, salad plates, and bowls becomes quite a load.

A more solid base for attaching the counter top.

You may want light, but the next owner will likely be seeking quality/longevity.


For all of the above reasons - My take on this question exactly and my reasons for using 3/4 ply for cabinetry - and most often - pre fin ply for kitchens and baths. 1/2" ply for the backs.

[Mark Bolton]

All the cabs we make are 1/2" pf. It's perfectly fine and never a probem. 3/4 is just way overkill. With good construction details a 1/2" carcass will last the life of many kitchens.

Dont waste your time, money, and back.

[scott vroom]

If you are open to Euro style/frameless cabinets you can install the boxes one at a time..

I'm curious why you feel FF cabs cannot be hung one at a time? I do it all the time.

[David Weaver]

I'm in the middle of making kitchen cabinets and using 1/2" ply, but it's not PF. Anywhere that the cabinets will be screwed into studs, I've got a second layer of ply. All of my joinery is glued dado joints (which makes for a tough time with glue-up).

I went with 1/2" because I don't want overly heavy cabinet cases. Mine are face frame type with 1 1/4" overlay doors, so there's no issue with mounting hinges (FFs are full length dado onto the cabinets, too).

If I was worried about it with 1/2", I'd just design the cabinets so I could have double thickness in mounting areas and do something to make sure the shelves won't sag.

If I were trying to make them fast instead, I'd probably just use 3/4" material and screws (I'm not trying to make them quickly).

[Prashun Patel]

It is likely the cost savings (not the weight) that drives production companies to use 1/2".

For the one-time builder like you and me, that cost difference (esp in a small kitchen) will be insignificant compared to the cost of the doors.

I think using 3/4" makes attachment to the walls simpler and gives you more peace of mind for storing heavy plates on the uppers.

How are you planning to attach faceframes? I like the additional 1/4" purchase for pins or pocket screws.

[Steve Peterson]

I'm curious why you feel FF cabs cannot be hung one at a time? I do it all the time.

FF boxes can be hung separately and still looks good if a single face frame covers all the boxes.

Steve

[scott vroom]

FF boxes can be hung separately and still looks good if a single face frame covers all the boxes.

Steve


If properly constructed, individually hung FF boxes look great. There's a limit how on much weight the installer(s) can hoist and on long runs it may be necessary to break the install into 2 or more separate units. I don't favor hanging multiple boxes and then attaching a single FF later....there are simply too many variables in play to expect a good alignment (precise reveals) IMO. In addition, I attach my FF's using tongue and groove joinery, which is useful in squaring up any minor warping in the boxes, pulling them perfectly square. This method would not work for me where multiple boxes are hung and a single FF added later. When joining individual FF boxes, I'll typically use a sufficient door overlay on one of the cabinets to cover the seam. And I always pull adjacent FF's together tight with trim head screws, located behind the hinge hardware where possible.

Then again maybe I'm just a hack, but I've never had a complaint about FF seams.

If I were building 1/2" cabs I'd think about 1/8" deep dados glued/screwed for the boxes, and 1/4" FF dados to ensure everything is squared up. I'd use a 1/4" back dadoed 1/2" recessed from the back then attach 1/2" hardwood nailers into the recess, top and bottom, glued and screwed.

[Erik Christensen]

I am finishing up a full kitchen cabinet build - all my cases are 3/4" including the backs. I like the extra strength of the thicker ply and with 3" fastcap screws to hang them from the studs they are burly. I have a corner cabinet upper and to install the door hinge I had to sit in the cabinet to drive the screws - even my 200# didn't deflect it at all. My design is full overlay - frameless and all cases are assembled with just domino's and glue.

[John Gregory]

Lots of good ideas to consider. thanks everyone. We may use a hybrid of the various suggestions. This will be our winter project this year.