Running Water to Out Building

[Rich Riddle]

I need to run a water line to an out building approximately eighty feet from the house. It's all down hill (steep) to get to the out building and incredibly rocky. Digging below the frost line won't present an option in this case. Do any of you have ideas on how to run a water line without going all the way down to the frost line depth? Thanks.

[Jamie Buxton]

For a little while I lived in an apartment building. It had a water heater in the basement, and it circulated hot water throughout the building 24/7, so somebody on the sixth floor would have hot water as soon as he turned on the tap. You could do something like that, but outdoors. There'd be two pipes running from building to building, inside a serious insulation jacket. Hot water would go down one pipe, and return up the other. It'd be cooling down through the entire trip, so it'd have to be hot enough at the start of the journey to not freeze by the end. Let's see... if you got really clever, you could measure the return water temperature, and adjust the temperature of the outgoing water so that the return temperature never drops below freezing. That way, you'd only be heating the water in the cold months.

[Charlie Velasquez]

You live in Kentucky. It will freeze in the winter. I am in Iowa, needed the same thing for my detached workshop. Simple solution- a dedicated garden hose. Ran it to a recycled laundry tub, rolled it up at the first frost.

[Rich Enders]

Rich,

Electric pipe wrap tape. Google it.

[Ed Aumiller]

Bury it as deep as you can, have a shutoff in the supply house where it will not freeze with an extra spigot after the shutoff (for venting) ... at the outside building, have a spigot to totally drain the pipe after using the shutoff in the supply house and opening the vent spigot in the supply house...

That way you can use water when you need it, then drain pipe to keep it from freezing...

Also, if there is a dealer nearby that sells the woodburning stoves that run hot water underneath the ground to heat a house, get a piece of the insulated pipe they use to provide extra protection...

One caveat... when you turn the water on, make sure you keep it running (dripping) so it does not freeze while you are needing it...

Good Luck...

[Kevin Bourque]

Get a polypropylene tank and hook it up so that the downspouts( if you have any) on the outbuilding drain into it. Then you can use a gravity feed, or electric pump, for water pressure. This method is used all over the world.

[ray hampton]

I agree with Ed comment, will the water temperature be hot or cold ?

[Jim Rimmer]

Bury it as deep as you can, have a shutoff in the supply house where it will not freeze with an extra spigot after the shutoff (for venting) ... at the outside building, have a spigot to totally drain the pipe after using the shutoff in the supply house and opening the vent spigot in the supply house...

That way you can use water when you need it, then drain pipe to keep it from freezing...

Also, if there is a dealer nearby that sells the woodburning stoves that run hot water underneath the ground to heat a house, get a piece of the insulated pipe they use to provide extra protection...

One caveat... when you turn the water on, make sure you keep it running (dripping) so it does not freeze while you are needing it...

Good Luck...

What is the significance of Grammar at the top of your post?

[Rich Riddle]

To answer a few question you asked I offer the following information.

1. The water will be cold.
2. The outbuilding is a greenhouse so she wants water out there in the winter as well.
3. It's incredibly rocky so I doubt digging much more than a foot or 18" will occur. Frost level here is 30".
4. I like the gravity feed from the downspout suggestion but it likely won't shed much water with a 10' x 12' roof. Still worth some effort though.
5. Turning on the water when she wants to go down there and turning it back off when she ascends the hill presents a good option if one can convince her to remember the steps in the process.

Question, isn't the a new kind of pipe that acts more forgiving of cold? I thought there was one that could flex. I don't want to count on that option but just wonder if it's possible.

[Brad Adams]

Put the pipe in a tile with both ends exposed inside the heated buildings. If you can get it to two ft. it probably won't freeze. We have some installed at 18" (in tile) here in Iowa and have pretty good luck with them not freezing. 2" styrofoam on top to keep ground heat in the tile, to top it all off.

[Kevin Bourque]

To answer a few question you asked I offer the following information.


4. I like the gravity feed from the downspout suggestion but it likely won't shed much water with a 10' x 12' roof. Still worth some effort though.
.

If you can figure out what the average rainfall in your area is and then find a formula to translate that into gallons on a 120 sq. ft. roof I think you'll see its more than enough for your greenhouse. However it will only work if you have a tank large enough for the rainwater. I live in farm country so finding used 1000-2000 gallon poly tanks is not that difficult. They seem to average about $1 per gallon.

[ray hampton]

If you can figure out what the average rainfall in your area is and then find a formula to translate that into gallons on a 120 sq. ft. roof I think you'll see its more than enough for your greenhouse. However it will only work if you have a tank large enough for the rainwater. I live in farm country so finding used 1000-2000 gallon poly tanks is not that difficult. They seem to average about $1 per gallon.



If you or your wife turn the water on at the house then it will run freely until someone walk to the greenhouse then the valve at the greenhouse will need to be open then walk uphill again to turn the valve off, I doubt that this will be fun walk, can you buy a valve that can be control by electric , MAYBE HIRE A CARETAKER TO SLEEP in the greenhouse

[Myk Rian]

I assume you won't be doing it to code. I would bury it as far as you can, then run a heat cable next to it.
I do that with 2 of our downspouts, and turn them on about January.

[Greg R Bradley]

One of the systems for moderating the temperature in a cold-climate greenhouse is to store LOTS of water in the greenhouse. Warm spells warm the water up, which gives off its heat during the cold periods so that the minimum temperatures are eliminated. It's typical to use 55 gal plastic drums as the support for shelves. Doing this allows you to correct the PH of the water to your desired PH for your plants and mix in fertilizers to the correct dose. If you are cold enough that you need to use this system, then you might need to feed water to the greenhouse less often.

I can't help with the trench problem. It seems to me that if you are digging a trench for water and the soil is really rocky, you just rent a bigger excavator or buy more dynamite as required.

[Jerome Stanek]

Just use a back flow preventer hose bib. It will let the water drain when you shut the valve off at the house

[Dan Hunkele]

Use the hose bib Jerome suggested along with an electric water valve. Run the hose out to the building along with wires for a switch to turn the water on and off through some four inch PVC or other conduit. Wire in a warning light by the door that comes on when the water is on. She turns the water on when she gets there and off when she leaves prompted by the warning light. Once the water is off she can then open the valve at the building to drain the hose into a container to use without waste.

Dan

[Harry Hagan]

Use the hose bib Jerome suggested along with an electric water valve. Run the hose out to the building along with wires for a switch to turn the water on and off through some four inch PVC or other conduit. Wire in a warning light by the door that comes on when the water is on. She turns the water on when she gets there and off when she leaves prompted by the warning light. Once the water is off she can then open the valve at the building to drain the hose into a container to use without waste.

Dan

Ditto on that.

[Rich Riddle]

Thanks for all the suggestions. The greenhouse is down a steep hill so a machine cannot be used to assist. I can get the water line that is on the flat surface below the frost line but when we go down the 40 degree hill it's going to be an adventure. Here are a few pictures. The flat area is easy since it will have dirt added on top and only need to be dug down about a foot. You can get an idea of the steep angle looking at the gravel chute.

292700 292701 292702

[Jerome Stanek]

You could use the back flow preventer and wire a solenoid valve that she could turn on from the greenhouse to start the water.

[ray hampton]

It is too bad that someone did not build a home at the bottom of this hill then you could run a water pipe from there

[Tom Fischer]

I have about a 200 line out to a garden shed (1" plastic well pipe). It is less than 2 feet deep. Had a plumber set it up. The line has shutoffs in the basement of the house. The plumber put a pneumatic nipple on the final shut off. I just put an air hose on it (80 pounds). That will blow 5 gallons out the other end. That empties the line enough that it can't freeze in the winter.

[Rich Riddle]

I decided to bury the line below the frost line. Now the only concern centers on the portion that goes vertical and is exposed to the elements in the "crawl space" area. Only about a foot will be totally exposed, but the portion above the frost line also finds itself in danger. The pipe will be copper so heat tape looks like the choice so far. Would it make sense to put the copper pipe into a "sleeve" of larger PVC?

[ray hampton]

I decided to bury the line below the frost line. Now the only concern centers on the portion that goes vertical and is exposed to the elements in the "crawl space" area. Only about a foot will be totally exposed, but the portion above the frost line also finds itself in danger. The pipe will be copper so heat tape looks like the choice so far. Would it make sense to put the copper pipe into a "sleeve" of larger PVC?

only if you are talking the vertical portion of the copper pipe then you could stuff Fiberglas insulation around the copper

[Brian Elfert]

I'm wondering why spend the money on copper when plastic water pipe is usually lot cheaper and can generally handle some freezing?

[Rich Riddle]

The only part of the system that will be copper is the vertical portion, so the last four or five feet. There is some of the thicker stuff in the garage so none needs to be purchased. Guess I could put insulation in the pipe instead of heat tape.

[ray hampton]

The only part of the system that will be copper is the vertical portion, so the last four or five feet. There is some of the thicker stuff in the garage so none needs to be purchased. Guess I could put insulation in the pipe instead of heat tape.

I would recommended that you use heat tape if it is possible to hook the tape to electric power