hand saws

[Tony Zaffuto]

I vowed I would not buy anymore hand saws, then two weeks ago, at the Coolspring Power Museum annual "Hit and Miss Engine Show and Flea Market" I bought 2, @ $5.00 each, both D23's, many decades old, and above all, sharp. Couldn't let those sit!

Today was the monthly Hazen, PA flea market (David, I keep telling you take the trip up Rt. 28!) and the place was packed with more people than I've ever seen in the 35 years+ I've been going. Unfortunately, of the dealers, at least 75% were craft. But.........I bought two more saws. Was attracted to a booth with mostly junk and a table marked $1.00! In the pile of junk were about a half dozen saws, but I was drawn to the two saws that had wooden, hand cut blade guards. Asked the vendor if these were $1.00 and he said yep. The first was a non descript hardware saw, with a plywood handle, but a nicely sharpened 8 pt.! The second was a Keystone Pacemaker, and again very nicely sharpened 10 pt.! A buck each!

Wife and #3 daughter were getting itchy to leave and told them I would meet up with them in another ten minutes and I'm glad I did. Went to a dealer I usually visit, and usually find something worthwhile, at the cheap. A couple of years ago it a NOS Stanley 71 and 271, in the box for $20 for the pair (but Made in England). Today it was a virtually unused #65 block plane, with knuckle cap. He had it marked $20 and I offered $15, which he quickly grabbed. Did I say unused? Nickel on the knuckle cap is a but dull, but the japaning is 100% and the blade is dull, but looks like it never touched a stone. $17.00 total spent and wife is happy that was all I spent, so all is very good this evening!

[Winton Applegate]

It takes many mickles to make a muckle.

. . . and not one photo . . .:confused:
:(

Hey, maybe when you get "enough" hand saws
and then
when you get "too many" hand saws maybe you could sell one or two good ones to me. Not much in the way of good stuff out this way and I don't go to flee markets and such much anyway.

[steven c newman]

Might have a few just sitting around292411three out of the five I have rehabbed this past week. Still might need a little file work. The better photos are in the "Painted Saws" thread...

[David Weaver]

Tony, I have a problem of excess. One thing i'm afraid of is that I'd make the trip up and there would be nothing good. But a bigger fear is that I'd go up and find 20 items of good stuff and my till overfloweth as it is. I have this grand idea that I will sharpen and sell half of my saws, but they are such a pain to ship if you don't have any large boxes on hand.

I've got a surplus of D8s, but also a bunch of top-line hardware store marked saws that are either from known makers (like richardson bros, etc) or unknown but on good saws. Haven't been to the local flea market here in at least a year, just nowhere to put stuff now.

At any rate, when a saw has a wooden blade guard, you know the prior owner either had pants that were too tight, or they really loved that saw and cared about its condition - probably the latter.

[Jim Matthews]

It's easy to find tools, if we look.
(I'm in Millers Falls country, and the stuff is just laying around.)

The problem is finding time to use these things.
I'm with DW - I'm only buying stuff I can use, immediately.

No more "someday" tools.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I also suffer from a place to put stuff, but the first two Disston D23's, at $5.00 each & sharp was too good to pass up and then yesterday's at a buck each! I just got a batch of saw files from McMaster-Carr on Thursday, with the lowest cost file being nearly $6.00 and being worse yet, the files were packaged loose per size, inside a plastic pouch! I never ordered files from this firm before and maker was not listed (MSC is now listing primarily Nicholson) and all turned out to be Nicholson.

So, if a saw is found sharp and less than the cost of the file needed to sharpen it, that saw is coming home! Of the four saws, one had way to much set in it but the other three were better than good to go. That fourth saw, I tried to stone each side, and though it helped, the help was not enough. Took about four file strokes in one direction and about three the other way and now it is also good to go.

I've got to add, these are purely users, albeit saws that the previous owners took care of: saw plates are straight, no pitting and handles just have typical dings but no chips.

[Tony Zaffuto]

It takes many mickles to make a muckle.

. . . and not one photo . . .:confused:
:(

Hey, maybe when you get "enough" hand saws
and then
when you get "too many" hand saws maybe you could sell one or two good ones to me. Not much in the way of good stuff out this way and I don't go to flee markets and such much anyway.

I need a "Posting Photos for Blockheads" tutorial! Seems that it was barely a year or two I finally figured out how to attach photos to emails! The sad thing is I go back to the first computer experience happening in graduate level stat courses at PSU in 1975. I suppose it is a mental thing of blocking out something that I first approached as a hobby (my old "trash80") that eventually turned into work.

[David Weaver]

I would've bought them for a dollar, too. That's the method that my dad uses, too- buy the saw cheaper than the file price.

[george wilson]

Let us know if those
Nicholson saw files are hard or not. The pack of 12 I got are soft as butter.

[Tony Zaffuto]

The Keystone Pacemaker is definitely a keeper: It is a skew-back (I prefer straight backs), and started out in life stamped "5-1/2", it was re-toothed to 10 pts. very nicely. One small issue is there is a single tooth missing, but it will re-appear sometime in the future. Saw does not show any evidence of the teeth being machine cut.

The other saw does appear to be a later model Disston/Keystone, with some similarities in handle shape. There is a factory hang hole in the toe of the saw. This saw will be a project, with the blade cut back beyond the hang-hole and a new handle. I may even confuse someone in the future by filing in a nib (it's not that I don't have anything else to do, it is just I don't have anything to do, that I want to do!).

[Tony Zaffuto]

The 6" was soft and haven't tried any others. I had to rotate to a new edge halfway though just a one to two stroke touchup, when screeching began!

Looking over the Tools for Working Wood, it looks as if the Grobet Swiss files are now made in India. Last batch of files I got from MSC were of mixed vintage - Nicholson (Mexico) and Grobet (still Swiss at that time). Now it appears all MSC are Nicholson.

I figured McMaster-Carr would have carried a better grade.

[Randy Reitz]

Wow, I was a Hazen early Saturday morning and handled those same tools. Was tempted by the saws. I've bought lots of interesting things from that $1 table. I also had that #65 block plane in my hand, but I decided I didn't need another block plane. My favorite thing was being allowed to hold the Stanley #1 even when I admitted I wasn't likely to buy it for the $1000 asking price and just wanted to admire it. I agree that it was the most crowded I have ever seen.

I also made it to Coolspring but not til Saturday and most of the Flea Market vendors had already pulled out due to the storms. I did pick up nice little D-8 20" panel saw that had been cleaned up but then left out in the weather, probably at the show. It was only $2 but I hesitated because I didn't need it and had to fit it into my bike's saddlebags for the trip home.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Wow, I was a Hazen early Saturday morning and handled those same tools. Was tempted by the saws. I've bought lots of interesting things from that $1 table. I also had that #65 block plane in my hand, but I decided I didn't need another block plane. My favorite thing was being allowed to hold the Stanley #1 even when I admitted I wasn't likely to buy it for the $1000 asking price and just wanted to admire it. I agree that it was the most crowded I have ever seen.

I also made it to Coolspring but not til Saturday and most of the Flea Market vendors had already pulled out due to the storms. I did pick up nice little D-8 20" panel saw that had been cleaned up but then left out in the weather, probably at the show. It was only $2 but I hesitated because I didn't need it and had to fit it into my bike's saddlebags for the trip home.

Where was the #1?????

This morning I'm tempted to run back over: On my way out I forgot to go back to a dealer that had some new Grace screwdrivers, marked Matco for a buck a piece! Way too many craft vendors at Hazen this weekend. One guy I see a lot & BS with had a Stanley 358 miter box at Coolspring and again at Hazen, nice shape and with the saw, for $20.00. You should have popped on the #65 - got it for $15.00. That dealer always has some good stuff, but you have to dig for it and he also knows what is good, but willing to to sell anything to make a couple of bucks. Couple of years ago, at the vendor (always in a tent) at the entrance corner where bikes are parked, had a 607 with near 100% japanning. Got it for $85.00. Plane iron looked like it never touched wood. Funny that was priced low because he is always overpriced on common stuff.

As far as Coolspring goes, anyone within 250 miles ought to make the trip just for the engine show! Later in the summer, mark down the Nittany Tractor Show, just East of State College. Lots of farm tractors, if you like that stuff, but also an absolute huge flea market, with very few craft dealers.

[Randy Reitz]

The Stanley #1 was at a dealer on the front corner right along Rte 28 at the Brockway end. Just across from the guys who set up under the trees.

The guy who is usually by the entrance always seems to have good stuff but knows what it is worth. I've bought several Buck chisels from him over the years, and a spare cutter for my Sandusky plow plane.

Love Coolspring for the engines. I worked the summer of '74 at Heath Station with 7 of the big Snow engines. There's something about a 12' tall 20 ton flywheel that gets in your blood.

Also went to the Nittany Tractor Show last year for the first time. Got a good deal on a beam drill and also picked up a Stanley #48. Definitely worth the trip.

[Winton Applegate]

large boxes on hand

Stop by any bicycle shop in the spring or summer time (about any time really). They have large sheets of cut up cardboard bicycle boxes piling up ever'where that they would just love for you to cart off. A couple of layers and some tape around it all aught to geeeter done. Unlike liquor store boxes which are great for moving but not big enough for saws.

[Winton Applegate]

the files were packaged loose per size, inside a plastic pouch!
Another sign we are in the depths of the dark ages and spiraling down.
Fools.
I'm commiserating not kidding.
The other day I got a box with a very heavy monster pad lock in with a movie DVD and NO padding.:eek:
Then . . . are you ready . . . I got a box , A BOX not a bubble envelope, with tons of padding

and . . .
one small socket wrench socket. :confused:

[Winton Applegate]

Hopefully this (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/faq.php?faq=vb3_reading_posting) will help.
Page down to Managing Attatchments and Images.
I didn't learn how to post photos from it so let us know if it is old info. The soft ware was "updated" recently. I WAS using photo bucket until recently when I gave SawMill bucks and they let me post more photos here without going to PhotoBucket.

Basically you put your photo on your desk top, choose a really small if not the smallest size file size, use Go Advanced in the reply screen that you always use to reply to a thread, choose the Manage Attatchements screen and it will give you a list of files on your desk top and you select the photo from that list and up load it to SawMill and click on done.
It can be a bit tricky if you don't click ALL of the OK . .. Yes . . . Upload . . . Upload now . . . and . . . No really I want to upload NOW buttons.

Just F around with it.
I mean what is the worst thing that could happen ? Right ?
Oh . . .
you could wind up sending secret US government files to the evil empires of the world . . .
granted . . .
but that is a risk we all take and worth it to be able to post photos of dollar finds at the flea market.
I think.

[David Weaver]

Couple of random thoughts about files.

Bahco what? Bahcos are the best right now, but you won't find much in the way of small files with very sharp edges. Do what you need to about that. I'm satisfied to use the files slightly less sharp cornered than most, but that really does lead to some packing of wood in the gullets. There is nothing that I have that I won't sharpen with a 5 xx slim (I have saws up to 16 points) - do have a 20 point gents saw, too, but a saw like that only has to have some semblance of teeth to cut small things well.

Mcmaster used to ship nicholson for big files and grobet swiss for small. They charged a little over 4 bucks at the time for grobet swiss small files. It was awesome.

It sounds like all of the grobet files are going downhill somewhat. If they are passable in the xx slim for small saws, that's fine still. Of all of the saws that can get away without having perfect teeth, small rip saws are it.

When you get to the point that you're sick of getting saws, you'll be able to touch up a dovetail saw a dozen times with one file. There's a lot of sawing that goes on in a dozen refilings.
Jeez the bahcos are really really nice in the sizes you can get them, though.

Might as well get several years' worth of files now, and keep auto tool world (who ships bahcos) on speed order if you're going to restore long saws. I recut the tooth line almost 2/3rds height on an old 5 point disston saw with one file and still had a fresh edge left on the last pass after getting everything in order. When you can take a saw that's way out of whack and get it back to good in one file, that's good.

There's no reason to joint a saw that's getting a little dull if the tooth line is straight. That's a waste of files unless you're sharpening for pay (and people expect everything to look a certain way). A good user can refile a saw several times before needing even a light joint. A really good user (someone like warren), I'd be curious, but I'd bet a lot more than several times before rejointing. In the days when a couple of files cost a day's pay, I'll bet the guys sharpening saws knew how to remove the minimum of metal to get a good edge of teeth - such a thing would stretch a file.

[Winton Applegate]

Bahco

They make really flat card scrapers.
Other than maybe LN my Bahco scrapers are head and shoulders and knees too above the other useless stuff other brands sell as thin card scrapers.

I know I am dangerously “different” than some but have you considered just using these (http://www.japanwoodworker.com/search2/search.aspx?query=feather%20file) to sharpen western saws. Woh, the price has gone up a bit . . . I bet you can do better. Doesn’t do the cut on both sides of the gullet (when using a narrow file in a wider gullet) that the traditional western saw file does but high quality and not abused in storage and shipping before you get them.

[David Weaver]

I have about a half dozen of those. You can't be surprised by that :)

They are just so thin compared to the profile of the tooth, they'd be trouble.

With a good bahco file, the saw sharpening experience is super pleasant on all but the largest of screech making teeth, which you just file a little uphill if correcting a sawplate, and go straight across only for the finish.

It's hard in my low-brow terms and lifestyle to explain how wonderful a good file like the bahco is in the cut - it gives the same smooth zzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiippp through material that a good rip saw does in an ideal rip cut. Where it feels like you're doing the maximum amount of work you could possibly do while maintaining the pleasant work.

[Winton Applegate]

Where it feels like you're doing the maximum amount of work you could possibly do while maintaining the pleasant work.

Heaven on earth.