Free Samples

[Andrei Georgescu]

After a few months of being nice I'm a bit reluctant to give free samples.
Now I have a product - a magnetic wall chess set - that want to sell in larger quantities at a low price. So I contacted a few stores from Western Europe and two of them based in Germany asked for samples. I agreed to send them a free set each if they would pay for the transport - which is at most about 30 Euros. Only one agreed. The other gave me this reply:

"Dear Sir,

(...)
If you are interested in a chance
to make business with my company, you to send a free sample
with free delivery."


I'm not sure that I, representing a small shop would be interested in a chance of doing business with a big company with a cheap behavior.
After all, in the past months I've encountered quite a few people with plenty of money who haggle for fun and would never ever consider paying for stuff.

Long story short should I pay the 30 Euros or get myself a few new arrows for my bow and have a great time shooting them instead? What would you do?

[Bill Stearns]

Andrei -
Not sure - but, kind' a think you answered your own question. Personally, I think you should follow your gut instincts as to which companies to deal with. No doubt each company has their own established policies, or practices, for accepting "samples" - so, if they say to send your item at no cost to them, well that's what you'll have to do. Also, feel that your suggesting they pay shipping cost may be "thinking kind' a small" on your part? I'd be more concerned 'bout the way you were being treated, or felt you were treated. 'Cause ultimately you're out to build a good working relationship with a "seller" - and, if it's an untrusting partnership at the start, well ... doubt it would get better. Also, thinking: a company which accepts "samples" should have some sort of contract, or formality to share with you? Wouldn't hurt to try 'n contact someone who has provided "samples" to them 'n the past. Also, wondering: do you have a patent, or patent-pending on your item? Anyway, good luck!

Bill

[Dan Hintz]

In some ways, you backed yourself into your own corner. You contacted them about a product you make... why should they pay (even shipping) to see what you have created? Why should they take all of the risk, even if it is a mere 30 euros?

[Mark Smith61]

I have to side with the store and with Dan. You contacted them. If I had a store and you contacted me I'd tell you the exact same thing. If you watch infomercials and other TV scams you always see them giving away "free" things. Of course to get those "free" things you always have to pay a "small shipping and handling fee." These companies are actually making their money on that shipping and handling fee. If you wanted me to sell your product and you asked me to pay shipping fees, I'd just assume it was another scam and move on.

[Scott Shepherd]

I went to a international sign convention a few months ago. One of the first vendors we saw was a supplier for products we buy. They whipped out a swatch book that had all their samples in it. They had some amazing things in it. Things we could find a use for. Then he hit me with it, "The swatch sample book is $50, if you want one, I can process that now and get you your swatch book".

Huh? So you sell materials. I buy materials. In order for me to be able to show your materials to MY customers, I have to PAY YOU? How about I don't show my customers ANY of your products and I don't offer ANY of your materials to them?

If you want me to SELL your materials, then it's YOUR responsibility to provide me with the tools to do it. If you don't, I won't sell your products. It's that simple. I don't pay for samples. I'm not paying YOU so I can sell YOUR materials. You should be paying me for selling your materials. I don't mean that literally, but you should realize that I'm essentially becoming a sales rep for your products, so you should treat me like someone that's making you money rather than someone that's an expense.

[Andrei Georgescu]

Also, wondering: do you have a patent, or patent-pending on your item? Anyway, good luck!
Bill
That's a good question. I've never thought about it yet but one big toy manufacturer would easily be able to find a way around a patent and make the same product. Also I might over evaluate my own product and spend lots of money on a patent for a useless one.

Anyway, maybe you guys are right to some extent. Although it's clearly not about taking "all the" 30 Euro risk ( I said at most - the transport can be 10 Euro by snail mail), or a TV mail scam, or selling sign materials to somebody, I'll reluctantly pay for the transport.
It's not really about the money, it's about trust.
And for my part I've observed that almost any local would-be customer I had and gave free samples of my work to, would seldom want to pay for a thing he or she can get for free.
That's really not the case for those who pay from the start. Almost all of them are regulars.
Maybe international trading works differently, I'll see how it will work out.

[Dan Hintz]

I went to a international sign convention a few months ago. One of the first vendors we saw was a supplier for products we buy. They whipped out a swatch book that had all their samples in it. They had some amazing things in it. Things we could find a use for. Then he hit me with it, "The swatch sample book is $50, if you want one, I can process that now and get you your swatch book".

This seems to be pretty commonplace, for better or worse. From vinyl suppliers to paints to acrylics... "we're happy to provide you with a sample book of our products... please deposit $50-150 here". When they're the big guys in the industry, you can't exactly say 'no'.

[Scott Shepherd]

This seems to be pretty commonplace, for better or worse. From vinyl suppliers to paints to acrylics... "we're happy to provide you with a sample book of our products... please deposit $50-150 here". When they're the big guys in the industry, you can't exactly say 'no'.

Wanna bet? :)

You'd be surprised how many will waive the fee once the think you have the potential to be a good customer. I tell them straight up "Sorry, we don't pay for samples. If we use your products, your samples will be in our showroom and be used to sell your products to our customers. If you'd like that opportunity, then waive the fee, if you don't want access to our customers, that's fine too, but we don't buy samples".

I've had many conversations over the years with sales reps about it. One told me that a vinyl swatch book cost them $8 to make and they didn't like handing them out. I asked him how I was supposed to sell their product to my customers if I couldn't use their swatch book to pick colors. It's like a catch 22. They don't want to give you the item because it costs too much to make, but I can't sell the product if you don't give me something that represents it. If I were in that business, I'd risk $8 spent on a swatch book to sell thousands of dollars worth of product.

However, I've also seen examples where you give someone a sample finished product and they copy it. It's a risk. That's why it's called business. You have to make an educated decision on what the pros and cons would be. If you have something unique, I'd probably make sure I had some legal agreement in place that protected my property. If you don't get a good feeling from talking to them on the phone, then I'd steer clear. Google them and find people in your situation and see if they have a history of stealing ideas, etc. Do your research.

[Jim Beachler]

I deal with many different companies such as physical stores tiny to medium size, websites and catalogs. I offer the first two samples for free, however that is for my personalized products only. For my non-personalized products, if they want a sample I send it to them for the price of shipping. I also include a return label if they wish to return the product. If they return the product, I refund the shipping charge. If they keep it and want more, I deduct the shipping charge from the order. This way I feel that I am getting at least the shipping charge back if they never return it. If they keep it and order it,l I make enough money on the order to cover the cost of their sample.

I also follow up with a phone call about 2 - 3 days after the product is received to get their feedback on the product. From that I will know if they want more or will return it.

[Tony Lenkic]

I went to a international sign convention a few months ago. One of the first vendors we saw was a supplier for products we buy. They whipped out a swatch book that had all their samples in it. They had some amazing things in it. Things we could find a use for. Then he hit me with it, "The swatch sample book is $50, if you want one, I can process that now and get you your swatch book".

Huh? So you sell materials. I buy materials. In order for me to be able to show your materials to MY customers, I have to PAY YOU? How about I don't show my customers ANY of your products and I don't offer ANY of your materials to them?

If you want me to SELL your materials, then it's YOUR responsibility to provide me with the tools to do it. If you don't, I won't sell your products. It's that simple. I don't pay for samples. I'm not paying YOU so I can sell YOUR materials. You should be paying me for selling your materials. I don't mean that literally, but you should realize that I'm essentially becoming a sales rep for your products, so you should treat me like someone that's making you money rather than someone that's an expense.


Steve, are you saying you got Rowmark and IPI swatch book free of charge?

[Bill Stearns]

Steve, are you saying you got Rowmark and IPI swatch book free of charge?

Steve - 'n All -
Probably wise not to answer that one, uh? - could do nothing but make some of us feel dumber than a rock for not asking for "free" swatches, etc.; might even cause a problem, or issue, for these very fine companies. ?? And, as for Andrei's original dilemma: only other thing I can think to say is for him to "do whatever works to get his product to market". Just my 2-cents!

Bill

[Rodne Gold]

If you want me to use or sell your products and want to charge me for swatches or sample books - go jump in a lake... plenty other companies that will entice and not try to punish me for trying to do business with them.

[Scott Shepherd]

We did buy the IPI and Rowmark sample kits about 7 years ago. I wouldn't do it today because we're in a much different place. When we bought them, we had little value to the companies selling them. Today, that's a different story. We spend a lot of money in materials. We believe that is worth something to the vendors. Want our business? Earn it.

I'm off on a tangent now, but supplier relationships are a pet peeve of mine. We have a local supplier that we've been doing business with for 5 years. We've bought machines and supplies from them. Had issues, couldn't get them to do anything. Finally got them to take samples and they would "get back to me in a day or two", and that was 4 years ago, still haven't seen anyone about the issues that we solved ourselves. They are literally 5 miles from us. Their sales rep has never once called us, stopped by, or emailed us. We bought a $15,000 machine that we could have easily bought from them. He found out we bought it when we bought some supplies for it. At the time, we said "We need another piece of equipment, get us some pricing", and we never heard back from him (we were standing in their office when we had this discussion). So, we bought it from someone else ($6,500 lost sale).

Their competitor opens up shop not far from us, the rep walks in, says hello, offers to help us with anything we need. Takes a few notes, emails our pricing on some items the next day, brings factory reps in, has factory samples sent to us. They have been by here more in 2 months than the other company has in 5 years.

They actually WANT our business and are earning it. We use 3M materials in our large format printer. The stuff isn't cheap. A roll of vinyl and laminate is $1,200. 3M will send you sample rolls of most all of their digital print media. They'll send you 54" x 10' of material for no charge. No shipping, no nothing. I just ordered samples the other day from them. It's about $100 worth of materials. No charge. Want to try something else tomorrow, no problem, order that and they'll send it. That's how you earn customers and business. You let them see your products for free and you help them use them.

I have engraving plastic swatches from a couple of other companies around here somewhere, people that called and asked if we bought engraving plastic and offered to send us swatches for free.

I do know one thing, at this point in our business, I won't buy samples, unless someone really hooks me for something and gives me a compelling reason to do so.

[Frank barry]

Hi this is a very interesting post and there is no simple answer if you are making a product you cant expect to sell it if your customers cant put there hand on it yet you don't want to be sending samples to people who don't have any intention of buying from them so its a balance research the customers you are sending them to should help
Cheers Frank

[Mike Null]

I don't buy samples either but I do give them if there is justification. This week I sent out samples to a building management company. Specific materials engraved so they could evaluate them for signing in some applications they have. I expect to get an order but it's not a given that I will.

I do not do samples for individuals--I send them pictures of work I've already done.

Johnson Plastics and JDS Industries will send samples swatches for specific colors but they charge for swatch books. That's ok with me as whenever I give a sample to a customer it never comes back--same with swatch books.

[AL Ursich]

I was asked to quote a job for some Accountability Boards using a design never seen before. The Design made up by a County 911 Center to be used by all the County's Fire Trucks. I made a sample per the the new design and freely gave it to them paying shipping and materials. Turns out I was not the only one asked and in the end I won the $8K bid and follow on work based on many reasons.

So in my case sending a FREE Sample had a very positive effect on my bottom line. I look for new projects just to add stuff to my product line. I knew I would have the pictures for my collection so having the physical board was not important. This weekend I am doing artwork for some Dry Marker Boards for a local 911 Emergency Communication Trailer with Radio Frequency and Agency blocks to be marked with a China Marker. Another FREE Sample that will result in more pictures for my Site and likely more work.

Now for the other side of the coin... I make Photo Accountability Tags and I tracked last year the Custom Photo Samples I made and of the 50 or so I made it resulted in 1 order... Turns out the offer for a cool photo tag is just too good to resist.... Even if you don't plan to buy a whole set for the department... I now just send generic sample and ask for payment for a single custom sample. Have not had any takers on the pay samples. So the free Custom Samples were a FAIL for me.... The Generic Samples get the Idea to the right people and I am very busy...

It's OK to delet this.

AL

[Bill Stearns]

Hey All -
Years ago - I still remember some of it - I read a marketing study by, believe it was, the Rockefeller Institute. Subject: Why people stop doing business with a business? I remember 'few of the reasons: They move away - pass away - start doing business with a friend, etc. The largest (whopping) percentage of people leaving - just remember it being very high - their reason? They did NOT feel that the business CARED! This has become kind' a the bottom-line with me: If a business I am dealing with doesn't seem to "care" about my business, well, I do my best to fine one which, 'least, appears to care! This goes for businesses I'm buying from, planning to buy from, or attempting to sell to. Small as I am, 'minute I don't feel valued .... I'm out' a there!

As for "samples" - swatches, etc. - think someone above hit on it: if companies feel they need to hold down "costs", they should do 'better job of qualifying the prospective customer. (Think 'bout how many glossy full-color supply catalogs you get 'n the mail - pushing products you have no use for; totally unrelated to your business. Or, in my case, the mailing label showing a company that I ran over 15 years ago!) From the mailman's hands to my trash can! Just thoughts.

Bill

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Andrei,
It's ALL ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS!!! If you don't want to ship or give out samples then load up your car with a few samples and drive to each of the places you want to do business with. make an appointment with the decision maker. Do your presentation and either get the order or take your sample on to the next one. It will take time and gas but that's the CODB...Cost of doing business. Do you have a trade show in the area for your type of products? How much does it cost? all costs..hotel, transportation, food, booth, labor, samples, literature, signage, etc... then do the math.
When I do my shows it costs 5-6000 USD If I get 250 leads and 20 are interested in making a purchase. Out of those 20, 4 or 5 order 100-200 units the show is paid for. Each ongoing order is where the profit comes in but that depends on how we service them and build the relationship.

[greg lindsey]

In some ways, you backed yourself into your own corner. You contacted them about a product you make... why should they pay (even shipping) to see what you have created? Why should they take all of the risk, even if it is a mere 30 euros?

I tend to agree with Dan here. If you feel like you have solid product and reasonably confident in the buyer. Take the chance, although I don't know what 30 euros equates to
but if you don't get the bat off the shoulder..you likely to strike out. I have given many free samples away, think about 70% return with orders

[Andrei Georgescu]

Well, the sample will be sent free of charge. After I'll design a few more products - I've got some new ideas that don't let me sleep - I'm also considering a tour like Michael suggested.
Thanks!

[Dan Hintz]

Well, the sample will be sent free of charge. After I'll design a few more products - I've got some new ideas that don't let me sleep - I'm also considering a tour like Michael suggested.
Thanks!

Let us know how it turns out for you, Andrei...

[Andrei Georgescu]

Will do, thanks Dan! :)

[Bill Cunningham]

25 years in business, I can't ever remember paying for a sample, swatch book, or product. Even Romark and others.

[Michael Reilly]

I lot depends on who you talk to at a company, and what place your business is in at the time. I know when I started out, I searched for potential suppliers and requested samples. Most just sent them, a few wanted me to cover shipping which was fine. I get that it costs money to cut up material and assemble them into books or chains, but if you want me to spec your product, I need a reference. One challenging one was Chemcast, a Mexican based acrylic company that our local supplier sells. The supplier never had any sample chains, I tried to contact the company repeatedly to request them. Finally I said "do you even have a sample chain?" and suddenly, I received 3 of them Fedex overnight. I promptly engraved them with our logo to show what they looked like engraved, photographed them and put them up on Flickr for others who wanted a reference as I did for so long. After a while, someone from the company commented on one of our blog posts saying thank you for using their products (and mentioning it by name.) Later when I needed more sample chains, I emailed him and got them immediately.

[Scott Shepherd]

One challenging one was Chemcast, a Mexican based acrylic company that our local supplier sells. The supplier never had any sample chains, I tried to contact the company repeatedly to request them. Finally I said "do you even have a sample chain?" and suddenly, I received 3 of them Fedex overnight. I promptly engraved them with our logo to show what they looked like engraved, photographed them and put them up on Flickr for others who wanted a reference as I did for so long. After a while, someone from the company commented on one of our blog posts saying thank you for using their products (and mentioning it by name.) Later when I needed more sample chains, I emailed him and got them immediately.

My acrylic swatch chains are like gold to me. We even refer to them like "gold" all the time. They were some of the most difficult things to acquire over the years and they are guarded pretty closely and not left out. I'll gladly show them to customers, but we don't let them out of our sight unless we have multiple copies of them.

We probably could have sold a lot more acrylic products over the years if we had the swatch chains freely available to us. No doubt it cost them $1,000's and $1,000's of dollars in lost sales per year, all because you wouldn't provide me with a swatch kit. Once you find the sources for them, they are easier to get, but overall, they are tough.

[Andrei Georgescu]

Well it didn't work out as planned. I sent the samples and no reply - not even "your product sucks good luck with that". So I've almost finished setting up my own shop and will likely not waste any more money on getting the products to resellers.

[AL Ursich]

Well it didn't work out as planned. I sent the samples and no reply - not even "your product sucks good luck with that". So I've almost finished setting up my own shop and will likely not waste any more money on getting the products to resellers.

Sorry to hear it did not work out. My gamble making a custom sample for a customer did pay off... Not many do... I got lucky.... This is today's project cutting Red Ears off the project.

AL

[Guy Hilliard]

Did you try contacting them and asking a, did you receive the sample? b, what is you opinion of it / is it something you can sell?

These people have other things to think about so call and remind them that you set something and you would like something in return, even if it's only a "bugger off and don't bother us again".

[Andrei Georgescu]

Thanks for the advice but I think I've learned something from this. I've also learned that quite a few times selling at a low price would not bring more customers, just make you work for less. And I thought most people were smart buyers... given similar products a lot of them would choose an expensive product over a cheap one. Last but not least, the best way to promote yourself is by word-of-mouth. Knocking on peoples' doors makes me look like a jehova's witness. Maybe some people are able to succeed that way but it's not for me.

[Bill George]

Thanks for the advice but I think I've learned something from this. I've also learned that quite a few times selling at a low price would not bring more customers, just make you work for less. And I thought most people were smart buyers... given similar products a lot of them would choose an expensive product over a cheap one. Last but not least, the best way to promote yourself is by word-of-mouth. Knocking on peoples' doors makes me look like a jehova's witness. Maybe some people are able to succeed that way but it's not for me.

I think most serious buyers look for good value. A good product at a fair price. I would give them a call as suggested and ask if they received your sample and if its being considered? I would also ask why not and if they had suggestions for improvements to meet their needs?

[Mike Lysov]

I have charged for the samples recently two big clients and charged them for their postage too. I even explained to them that samples would cost more than buying them in bulk they initially asked for. And I also explained that I would refund them samples cost and even their postage cost if they decide to go ahead with their bulk order. Also I was going to explain why I was going to charge them for samples but they did not even ask. One of these customers has got the samples today and they are placing their order. Another one got them a week ago and they are just trying to get a better deal from me.

However there is a huge difference between these two customers and OP's situation. I have not contacted my customers, they have contacted me for a quote. If I had contacted them myself I would not have asked them to pay for the samples or their postage cost.

[Martin Boekers]

Most ASI companies will send free samples, some charge for shipping..... Consider this, charging for samples, but crediting the price, maybe twice the price on the first order...

If the customer is interested in your product then they may work with that. You could go broke quickly sending out free samples...

[Michael Hunter]

Free samples should either be -

Something generic, so that the potential customer can see the sort of thing(s) you do
or
EXACTLY what you think they want.

A one-man engineering shop we dealt with (briefly) would bring in samples of things we had talked about when throwing ideas around, but every time it was too big, too small or had some other problem.
The guy said that he did it that way deliberately, so that people had to pay for the real thing.
We just found it REALLY ANNOYING (we would happily have paid for some of the samples he made if they had actually been usable).

[Kev Williams]

Depends on the samples- Rowmark has free brochures with pictures of their products, okay but... New Hermes has free small swatch books of samples in specific material categories... But a few years ago I paid for a New Hermes swatch book that had samples of virtually every single engraveable material they sold. To me it was well worth the money-- My customers could see exactly what I could get for them, AND, I never had to waste my time making phone calls to see if such-n-such a color or material existed; whether the "beige" was more almond or more tan, whether the teal is turquoise, or if the bronze looks like copper, or buying something only to return it because it WAS wrong for some reason. I had all that info right at my fingertips...

And I'm speaking in the past tense because I did that most foolish of things: loaned it to someone... :(