Swiss Army Knife Work Benches

[ken hatch]

Am I just becoming a curmudgeon or have we entered a world of Swiss Army Knife workbenches with so many appliances built in, complex vises everywhere, different trim woods and so on that the benches have, at least to my eye, lost functionality. I know everyone has different needs because they have different styles of working but I've always figured simpler was better, less stuff to get in the way. A perfect example is the sliding deadman. I admit there is one on my current bench (I had to try it), on the new one it is gone because I seldom use the deadman yet I'm moving it around every time I work on the bench what a PITA. A bench jack will do the same job and stay out of the way until you need it. I will not go into some of the other stuff I've seen while looking at threads on workbench builds.

I've had my say, it's time to take my meds and crawl back out to the shop where there are four legs waiting to be trued and glued.

[Winton Applegate]

I don't know what you mean. :p
There is only ONE woodworking bench (http://www.finewoodworking.com/woodworking-plans/article/a-classic-bench.aspx).
Anything else is . . .
I better stop there.

PS: quite a difference a little light change makes; it is the same bench.

[Jim Koepke]

I know everyone has different needs because they have different styles of working but I've always figured simpler was better, less stuff to get in the way.

Simple is a great way. All that is needed is a way to hold what ever it may be on which one wants to work.

What works for Winton may not work for me. My simple vises, with their tendency to rack, might drive others to drink. I was looking at an old leg vise in an antique shop today. Good thing I'm willing to build a leg vise but not buy one even if it looked to have a good wooden screw and nut.

I fantasize about a pattern makers vise, but it isn't something I have to or plan to have unless one just happens to find its way to me.

jtk

[Winton Applegate]

What works for Winton may not work for me.

such as . . .

Are you telling me your work shop is situated near the brink of the event horizon of a black hole and so the laws of physics, as we ape descendent, twig technology loving connoisseurs, understand these "laws" . . . that . . . the laws of physics do not apply in your shop ?
Is that what you are saying here ?
What is this theory that you have ?

I'm just glad I didn't "take advantage of" that same real-estate opportunity or I too would find myself tipping over the threshold and so would also find myself believing all manner of strange and scary things to be true and right just before my molecules were torn apart and distributed to parts unknown.
:):D:p

Remember Dylan Hunt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylan_Hunt_(Andromeda)#Dylan_Hunt)
He spent 300 years trapped and frozen in time on the brink of the event horizon of a black hole
Dylan was rescued when the Eureka Maru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_Maru) attempted to salvage his ship the Andromeda.
I fear you may not be so lucky. Reverse ALL engines full power NOW before it is toooooo late.

[Kees Heiden]

Well, it looks like you're becoming a curmudgeon indeed :D, because I have no problem with my sliding deadman at all. Use the thing often and when not in use it isn't a hindrance.

[Jim Matthews]

Nothing cranky about rejecting tools that dictate your mode of work.

I built a kludge leg vise that I have replaced with my trusty Emmert.

I think the problem is when you only have one bench, and try to make it serve many masters.
One bench for planing, one bench for sawing and chopping.

The planing bench doubles as my assembly table and dovetail surgery center.

[ken hatch]

Well, it looks like you're becoming a curmudgeon indeed :D, because I have no problem with my sliding deadman at all. Use the thing often and when not in use it isn't a hindrance.

Probably true, the curmudgeon part, my dogs get in the way of moving the deadman. If I were a better bench designer they might not.....Makes no never mind the new bench ain't going to have one :-).


Simple is a great way. All that is needed is a way to hold what ever it may be on which one wants to work.

What works for Winton may not work for me. My simple vises, with their tendency to rack, might drive others to drink. I was looking at an old leg vise in an antique shop today. Good thing I'm willing to build a leg vise but not buy one even if it looked to have a good wooden screw and nut.

I fantasize about a pattern makers vise, but it isn't something I have to or plan to have unless one just happens to find its way to me.

jtk

Leg vises are another story (better up my meds), been there done that. Give me an old English quick release such as a Record/Paramo #52, they work faster, hold just as well and are a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to install.


Nothing cranky about rejecting tools that dictate your mode of work.

I built a kludge leg vise that I have replaced with my trusty Emmert.

I think the problem is when you only have one bench, and try to make it serve many masters.
One bench for planing, one bench for sawing and chopping.

The planing bench doubles as my assembly table and dovetail surgery center.

You are probably correct plus I question if some of the makers have ever made furniture. Geez, there I go again....Hey you kids get off my rocks, back in the day we didn't need no stinking vises, just a couple of rocks and a nail, oh where was I.......I must have bench tourettes.

It is time to go back out to the shop and wrestle 200 BF of glued up European Beech, Glad I'm in the short rows, I don't think my back can take too much more. BTW, that's what brought this rant on, for once in my life I'm building a bench out of something other than SYP and the voyeur in me wanted to see what others were doing. There are some really pretty benches being built, lots of variations on leg vises, tail and wagon vises, deadman, I've never seen so many dog holes both square and round in a single bench top, different trim woods and so on. Impressive but I can't remember any bench I'd want to work on. Then again, everyone's skirt gets blown in a different manner.

[Bill Houghton]

Be comforted: my bench is a solid core door on a plywood box; bolted to the wall (the door) because the box isn't quite firm enough. It's a temporary bench, until I have time to make another bench...but it's been my only bench roughly since my now-42-year-old entered his teens. It's got a face vise (regular Wilton - don't much like it) and an end vise (Record - like it).

[Jack Terpack]

I have pondered the same dilemma. My current workbench is the top of my TS. I have a 7 foot laminated maple bench top but have not been able to decide what I want in a bench. I just happened to come across an article in the fall 1999 issue of Fine Woodworking that might be the solution to my problem because it is so adaptable. Now I am more confused. I think the term is "Paralysis by Analysis."


Jack

[ken hatch]

I have pondered the same dilemma. My current workbench is the top of my TS. I have a 7 foot laminated maple bench top but have not been able to decide what I want in a bench. I just happened to come across an article in the fall 1999 issue of Fine Woodworking that might be the solution to my problem because it is so adaptable. Now I am more confused. I think the term is "Paralysis by Analysis."


Jack

Jack,

Advise is free but here goes.....Keep it simple, make a heavy strong base for your Maple top, install a metal face vise, I like the old Record/Paramo's, a few 3/4" dog holes, a couple of holdfasts from TFWW, and make some battens. If you need to work large doors or panels add a bench jack and you are good for just about anything.

ken

[Derek Cohen]

I have pondered the same dilemma. My current workbench is the top of my TS. I have a 7 foot laminated maple bench top but have not been able to decide what I want in a bench. I just happened to come across an article in the fall 1999 issue of Fine Woodworking that might be the solution to my problem because it is so adaptable. Now I am more confused. I think the term is "Paralysis by Analysis."


Jack

Hi Jack

"Swiss Army Knives" are terrific when one is starting out and either not yet clear of the direction headed, or trying to get the most value-for-money. However, once you do get a direction, or you begin to accumulate a variety of tools, the SAK strongly resembles a jack-of-all-trades .... which is a master-of-none. When you reach this position you will want to change to something more specialised. It is difficult for someone starting out (not necessarily you) to appreciate this, but those with experience will nod their heads.

My recommendation to you is to decide what tasks you do 80 or 90% of the time, and gear your bench for those tasks. Trying to do it all will impact negatively on that 80 or 90%.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Matthews]

That's what a hobbyist workbench should be; easily made, sufficiently durable and frequently used.

Too many benches look to me like shop furniture built to heirloom quality.
They're tools, and must be the willing recipient of abuse.

[Brian Holcombe]

The first scratch is tough, especially on your newly polished bench top. Then you realize it's a big tool and next time you flatten it you leave a planed finish, don't bother to oil it, and get over saw marks and dents in much less time.

[Pat Barry]

Advise is free but here goes.....Keep it simple, make a heavy strong base for your Maple top, install a metal face vise, I like the old Record/Paramo's, a few 3/4" dog holes, a couple of holdfasts from TFWW, and make some battens. If you need to work large doors or panels add a bench jack and you are good for just about anything.
Hey Ken, is this what you are planning for your new bench? Also, what exactly do you mean by bench jack - how is that different than a deadman?

[ken hatch]

Hey Ken, is this what you are planning for your new bench?

Yep, pretty much except Beech instead of Maple. It has about 200 BF of European Beech all glued up, trued and dimensioned. I'll finish up the base joinery in the next couple of days and have it standing upright within the week if SWMBO doesn't interfere too much. It will have a Paramo #52 for a face vise, a few 3/4" round dog holes for stops and holdfasts and a bench jack when needed. It is distilled down to the essence of work bench, everything needed and nothing that is not. I just find I can work faster and with less monkey motion with a simpler bench.

I think Jim M. posted about some benches being shop furniture, mine are not, a quick simple build that will soon have spills and dings (stuff happens). BTW, one of the reasons for no tail or wagon vise is they are too much work to install for very little utility. YMMV.

I expect this will be my last bench, I'm getting too old to wrestle bench sized slabs and legs by myself. This one has kicked my tail, every joint and what few muscles I have left are screaming "no mas, no mas". Break is over, back to the shop to finish dimensioning the last leg blank.

[Brian Holcombe]

Ken,

I use a tail vise in 90% of the work I do, so I do feel they are worth the effort. Mind you, the type of projects that you create is a big factor in what is 'swiss army' and what is just utility. Also, looking at 'shop furniture' as it's being called has a certain utility for me, and that utility is inspiration and good cheer.

[Prashun Patel]

Who cares what another mans bench looks like? If it works for you and brings you joy to look at and use it, who am i to criticize?

[ken hatch]

Hey Ken, is this what you are planning for your new bench? Also, what exactly do you mean by bench jack - how is that different than a deadman?

Pat,

Sorry I missed the second question. A bench jack works about the same as a deadman but is not built into the bench. It is free standing, that way you can move it out of the way when it is not needed.

ken

[Judson Green]

Sometimes a image helps...

Also called a bench slave

292377

[Judson Green]

Me too. I'd be lost with out a row of dogs and a tail vise.

[Shawn Pixley]

I don't know. We all have different constraints and ways of working. What works for me would undoubtedly not work for others. That said, I probably have one of the most primative and ugly benches; so clearly I am no authority on bench design. I suspect we all adapt to our benches / constraints or adopt others' perspectives on benches, therfore adopting a bench design through the experience or recommendations of others.

I cannot speak to the merits of sliding deadman, legvise or tailvises as i have none of these. On the other hand, I have always found a workaround and have not found something I couldn't build with my setup. Could it be easier with a better of different bench? Perhaps. My perspective is that the only person I need to make happy is me. I care not to try to keep up with the Jones's in these matters. I say let everyone make up their own mind.

I do not want to leave others with the impression that I am dismissive of others' benches or perspectives on benches. i am not. My priorities are not yours and my opinions only apply to me. If you are happy, I am happy.

[Warren Mickley]

I can't believe a guy would talk about other people's bench gizmos and then it turns out that he has a row of dogs. I have worked for 40 years without dogs, but I would not be without the sliding deadman. Hard to imagine having a bench slave right where you want to be standing and thinking it replaces a built in deadman.

[Frank Drew]

I have worked for 40 years without dogs, but I would not be without the sliding deadman. Hard to imagine having a bench slave right where you want to be standing and thinking it replaces a built in deadman.

My bench jack doesn't have a base (it isn't freestanding) and is clamped in the tail vise when needed, so is out of the way of my feet but still fully functional.

Not using bench dogs takes away one of the great functions of a woodworking bench, IMHO.

[Adam Cruea]

It's all in what you want to do, like what Derek said.

I built my bench with furniture making in mind. I don't have a sliding deadman, but instead a face vise with dog holes on my front apron. Then I have a twin-screw end vise for anything the needs put on the top.

Thus far, it's working very well, but I like making furniture, so it works. When I start working on the small projects my wife wants, it gets a little cumbersome to work with, but I have jigs and stuff to help me adjust to working on smaller things.

While I haven't been doing this for a long time, I really don't have anything that I'd change thus far about it other than to do a slightly better job mounting the twin-screw front vise. It's at a slight angle and the screws aren't timed perfectly, but it does it's job on holding stuff to dove tail or plane.

[Winton Applegate]

God . . . who would want one of those ? ? ? ?

I have these on my hip all day every day. All the long blades are custom re ground. The top one has the long blade configured flat on the left side/single beveled on the right.
The middle one is an acute taper for much improved cutting performance and still doesn't ding the edge. He makes quick work of thick plastic wire ties that the stock edge angle couldn't dream of cutting.
The bottom one has the flat on the right side and the single bevel on the left.
Very precise pliers, largish scissors (for a pocket knife), magnifying glass, philips driver on the end of the knife rather than the middle of the knife.

[Winton Applegate]

Judson (and crew),


Bench slave
See now . . . if it were Philip Lowe (http://www.finewoodworking.com/authors/philip-c-lowe.aspx) he would toss that bench slave and just pull open one of the drawers you have there and use that to support the plank.

See his bench and the build here (http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/109209/build-a-basic-workbench-with-built-in-storage).

I really, really respect him and all that he has done but I don't understand the attraction to that bench.

PS: Actually I am pro bench slave; I don't want the drawers (that I actually don't even have) getting all full of shavings. But then I am just a prissy candy who gets all bent from having shavings in my drawers.

[Frank Drew]

God . . . who would want one of those ? ? ? ?

I have these on my hip all day every day.

Winston, you carry three(!) Swiss army knives with you all the time?

[Mike Holbrook]

Regarding vises. The Benchmade leg vise is not slow. Yes, it is expensive. There is also a tail vises that is easy to install and quick, the new Veritas Quick Release Sliding Tail Vise. Now all I have to do is design a bench top that takes advantage of both. The Veritas vise prefers a bench edge with an apron and the Benchmade vise requires a leg flush with the top edge. Tricky but may be doable.

[Prashun Patel]

I have a leg vise and a Veritas QRST vise. My solution was to make the apron thicker only for the sliding portion of the tail vise.

[Zach Dillinger]

When I made my current bench, I spent a lot of time drilling bench dog holes because that was the thing to do. As I grew in experience, my workholding evolved to the point that they are almost wholly superfluous except as convenient places to stick holdfasts. I have no end vise and see no reason to have one. I have a toothed metal planing stop (installed when I first made the bench), a leg vise, bench hooks, sticking boards, and three holdfasts. My bench has a thick slab top, but I added a wide face board with holdfast holes (a la the Hay Shop benches) that fits my needs perfectly (no bench slave required). I also have one of the Veritas Wonder Dogs but it never sees use.

[dan sherman]

I think a Schwarz quote is relevant here.



“Every piece of lumber has three kinds of surfaces: edges, faces and ends. A good workbench should be able to hold your lumber so you can easily work on these three kinds of surfaces. Any bench that falls short of this basic requirement will hold you back as your woodworking skills advance.”



What Schwarz doesn't mention is that the scale of your projects has a drastic effect on what work holding devices you use. If only ever make small boxes you might only need a face vise, but if you go to make a bed, that leg vise and sliding dead man might be really handy.

[Prashun Patel]

What's a sticking board, Zach? I was just reading about metal planing stops and am thinking about adding one to my Swiss Army Bench. I kind of like the idea of little bite marks in the finished product - a little like overcutting the base lines for half blind dovetails...

[Zach Dillinger]

What's a sticking board, Zach? I was just reading about metal planing stops and am thinking about adding one to my Swiss Army Bench. I kind of like the idea of little bite marks in the finished product - a little like overcutting the base lines for half blind dovetails...

You see those marks in end grain on old pieces, but you have to be careful. If you are using a split friendly wood, you can take a big chunk out of your board with those teeth when they dig in, especially if you have the stop set at a low height above the bench top (DAMHIKT). I sometimes put a sacrificial piece between the work piece and the teeth to stop this from happening... again.

A sticking board is a bench appliance that is used to hold narrow / thin pieces for woodwork. They are usually used for making moldings and sash work. Mine has the only miter box (a couple of saw kerfs at opposing 45 deg angles) that I have ever needed built right in. I don't have a picture of my boards handy but I can take one if it would be helpful.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Prasun

I built an adjustable sticking board here:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/AdjustableStickingBoard.html

Useful for mouldings and small parts.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/AdjustableStickingBoard_html_6e549f5a.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Zach Dillinger]

Mine is not adjustable but Derek's board is right on and works like mine I am sure.

[Mike Holbrook]

Prashun, I think the solution I am thinking about is similar. I plan to have the right side of the bench extend past the base the 17 1/2" necessary to mount the vise. I plan to bolt/screw an apron, the width of my vise jaw, under the front edge between the two legs of the bench and along the left side past the left leg. The bench top to the right of the right leg will be the correct width to allow the vise to move flush with the front edge and legs of the bench. The right bench leg then becomes an extended surface for the tail vise to work against. With dog holes in the top and side of my apron I should be able to clamp just about anything to the top or side of the bench.

[John Sanford]

Sometimes a image helps...

Also called a bench slave

292377

It seems to me that a bench jack/slave would be more trouble than a sliding deadman. You have to have someplace "out of the way" to store it, and it looks like it would get in the way when you're using it. Mind you, I haven't used one, so I can't say for sure that it would meaningfully interfere with planing for me, much less anyone else.

[Roy Lindberry]

I don't know what you mean. :p
There is only ONE woodworking bench (http://www.finewoodworking.com/woodworking-plans/article/a-classic-bench.aspx).
Anything else is . . .
I better stop there.

PS: quite a difference a little light change makes; it is the same bench.

Winton,

I too, love the Scandanavian bench, and finished mine last year. However, I haven't gotten around to building the slave. Do you use a slave, or have you found another work around for edge jointing long/wide boards?

[Brian Holcombe]

I finally made a slave, very much worth the effort for edge jointing. I'm always working with some heavy lumber, so pivoting it over the slave is much easier then putting it in the vise and lifting it then clamping.