Cermark clogging

[vic casware]

Hi everyone,
I am using Cermark LMM-6000 spray can,
the problem i have is over the last 3 years i have used about 3 cans so far, no problems, great stuff
but the last one i bought at the beginning of this year only got half way through before it clogged
and wouldn't spray anymore, I cleaned the nozzel, even changed it over with no luck
so i sent it to my supplier and they exchanged it for a new can.
Now the new can is not quite down to half but there we go again, clogged with no fixing.
Has anyone else come across this issue?

Regards
Vic

[Brian R Cain]

Yes, many times. When it was first introduced we bought around 20 cans to sell on then started getting complaints. We took it up with Cermark who told us they had become aware of the problem and fitted different nozzles and replaced the batch. They would still get clogged, even the ones I used and I took great pains to shake the cans well before use. In some instances, replacing the nozzle never helped.

[Keith Colson]

I keep my nozzle in a lid full of water. I can't remember where I saw this idea but it is recommended.

Cheers
Keith

[Bill Stearns]

I do kind' a what Keith does - I keep the nozzles in a shallow plastic container filled with water - and 'little dawn dish soap; exchanging nozzles 'fore each use. From time to time, I have run across Cermark LMM-6000 cans that punked out on me, for whatever reason: Laserbits (at the time) replaced 'em. But, I kind' a got the feeling they weren't expecting me to ask ever again.
Even so: if you only use the product periodically, as I do, it's kind' a hard to ask for replacement weeks 'n weeks later; a month or so later. (With nozzle being okay, spray failing half way thru the can would seem a defect - IMO.

Bill

[Gary Hair]

I've never had a 250g tub clog... just sayin'

[Mike Null]

I'm with Gary. The aerosol can is wasteful to boot.

[vic casware]

Thanks for your opinions, i will give 1 more can a try, if it fails i might just use the brush on paste it seems to work fine.
my supplier is really great, so i might suggest if the can stops half way through i could pay for the half i used.

[Dee Gallo]

Some products are just designed to work better with a less "convenient" application system - Cermark is one of them. An airbrush with the paste is the best way to apply it, period. The convenience of a spray can or tape is tempered by wastefullness, frustration level and cost effectiveness. Cermark is an excellent product but needs to be applied correctly in order to work well. Small areas coated with a brush work well, but larger areas need to be sprayed.

Sometimes a shortcut is a detour.

[Kev Williams]

I've been thru maybe 100 cans of Cermark in the past 10 years. The nozzle isn't the problem. It's the main tube and valve. That, and the fact you MUST shake the can almost CONSTANTLY. Cermark turns to mud in the bottom of the can within about 10 seconds of the last can shake. Anyone who's sawed open an empty can will attest to this. The mud goes up the main tube, and eventually clogs the main valve as it builds up. A new valve usually helps, but it can only spray as much Cermark thru it as the main valve will let past, and slow thick flow will soon clog the new nozzle...

The main valve can be fixed, but it's messy- First, shake the can well for a minute. Pull the nozzle off, then run a small stream of hot water down into the valve on top of the can, in 10 second shots. Then shake. Then hot water. Repeat for a couple of minutes. Now for the fun part- get a small phillips screwdriver, and a rag. Or use your hand if you're brave. Do what you can to catch the mess, then depress the valve with the screwdriver, for about 1/2 a second. It's going to blast a lot of Cermark out, and should loosen up the buildup in the tube and valve. Rinse the valve, can and everything else with water. Clean the nozzle, shake the can like crazy for a minute, and it should work fine. For every 3 seconds of spray, shake the can for 10 seconds. It should help...

Should... ;)

I've always wondered why Cermark doesn't put in a little less mud and twice the alcohol in these spray cans? And charge us less, of course. :) -The canned mix has always been wayyyy too thick, IMO. Even spraying extremely thinned out Cermark with an airbrush, if I don't get enough alcohol in the mix, the air brush nozzle will build up and clog in very little time. It's a wonder the cans work at all...

And speaking of air brushing, the absolute best thing you can do with a can of Cermark, especially clogged ones, is to poke a small hole in the top to let out the pressure, then hacksaw the can in half and put the contents in a glass jar with a good sealing lid. If you've never done this, you'll be surprised at how much un-mixed mud will be caked in the bottom of the can. Just the remnants of a typical "empty" can, can yield 1 or 2 ounces of airbrush sprayable mixture! That much "free" Cermark can be good for hundreds of $$ in sales...

[Bill George]

FYI Its not just Cermark, I have found in general the past few years they have put less and less propellant into the spray cans. Liquid Wrench brand is one I can think of right off hand. You can tell the can has about half the contents left when the pressure is gone.

[Gary Hair]

I've been thru maybe 100 cans of Cermark in the past 10 years.

just think how much money and time you would have saved by using an airbrush instead - 100 cans at $75.99 (plus shipping) $7,599.00 - that's over 32 of the 500g tubs - I guarantee you would have used about 1/2 of the tubs and would have been ahead of the game in time spent shaking, cleaning, futzing, etc.

Just a thought...

[Kev Williams]

I actually did airbrush (or paint brush) probably 70% of each can. I have a nozzle with a 1/32" drilled-out hole I use to spray the Cermark into jars, which I thin out to airbrush or paint-brush with. I only recently started buying the tubs of mud, wish I'd done it sooner! But I still always have a can around for quick touch-ups.

[Bill Cunningham]

120 is the magic number. That's the number of times you shake the can before you even think of using it. I also pull of the nozzle after each use drop it into some alcohol for a few min. The blow it out with a air blast then leave it off until the next time I need it.

[Jeff Greer]

A tip I heard on the cans is to lay them flat ...gives a larger are for it to settle in and thus is easier to mix again when you shake it. I use the poor mans air brush of the compressed air can and the little bottle that snaps in front of it. It is a Testers paint kit - works great and I have yet need to get out my real air brush.

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Air-Brush-Professionals-Hobbyist/dp/B000MCLXQQ/ref=pd_sim_ac_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=177DAYXPG0964FW6XX7N

[Keith Colson]

I know this is an old topic but I had my first can fail yesterday. I assume the stem tube inside the can is blocked. I had it for 3 months and only used 1/3 of a can. I took it back to my supplier Tilt importing and they would not replace it. I now have $100 of Cermark in a blocked can. What should I do?

I purchased an air brush online today and plan on chopping the can open and using the rest with the airbrush. I think this will be my last can of Cermark. As Dee says the air brush and paste is the way to go. Plus it will save my relationship with my supplier as I am a bit upset about it.

Cheers
Keith

[Dan Hintz]

Call Cermark. If that fail, cut the can open and salvage what's in there.

[Kev Williams]

If you've only had one can fail, consider yourself lucky! I've had many. But never has the main tube been clogged.

Try this-- find an old can that worked, take the spray top off and let it soak in hot water or alcohol for awhile...

Take the spray top off the bad can, and set it aside. Some of those just don't work well. And what happens is, while the
top is blocking the spray, the valve in the can lets cermark seep thru, and then the valve clogs...

So take your can to a sink, get the water coming out hot, turn it down to a small stream and place the can under the stream. Let the hot water wash out the valve for about 2 minutes.

Shake the daylights out of the can, at least a full minute or more. Now the fun and messy part. Grab something that will fit into the valve hole-- I use a small HF T-handle allen wrench that barely fits-- and grab a rag to cover the can top, then push open the valve. Chances are you'll get a nice blast of cermark. It may take more than one push and/or a second rinse, but it's never failed me.

If it works, go get the spray top you were soaking, and a small paper clip or straight pin, and clear out as much remaing guck from the little tube. Blow it out with compress air if you have it. A couple more quick rinses in the water or alky won't hurt.

Shake the can good again, put on the clean top and hopefully you'll be good to go!

I've found that cans that clog don't have enough alky 'thinner' within, for whatever reason. Those cans require re-shaking almost constantly while using them....

[Hilton Lister]

The only time I used an airbrush resulted in clogging and more hassles in cleaning it up than it was worth. I have once again reverted to thinning the paste and, applying with a foam brush. Any tips on easy cleaning for an airbrush? I assume it has to be emptied after each use.

[Scott Shepherd]

Hilton, the trick on the airbrush, as mentioned by someone else here, is to use a cheap one. Don't use something like a Pasche for that. Get a cheap $10 Harbor Freight one, open the tip up wide, and it'll spray it fantastic. When you are done spraying, you can cap the jar off, run water through the pickup tube and it'll clean it pretty well. Next time you use it, put some alcohol in the jar mixture, stir it, and you're all set. It works really well. The cermark will eventually crack the pickup tube. At the first sign of any troubles, I toss it in the trash can and get a new one.

[Jeffrey Dewing]

I got this sprayer at Home Depo for $20 bucks. I'm going to hook it up to my compressor and it should work fine! simple little gun that comes all apart for cleaning. I've got 2 compressors from my carpentry business and I'll just mix up my own cermark paste. I seemed to me to be a better vertion of the thing cermark was trying to sell with the can of compessed air...311647311648

[Dan Hintz]

I got this sprayer at Home Depo for $20 bucks. I'm going to hook it up to my compressor and it should work fine! simple little gun that comes all apart for cleaning. I've got 2 compressors from my carpentry business and I'll just mix up my own cermark paste. I seemed to me to be a better vertion of the thing cermark was trying to sell with the can of compessed air...311647311648

That is a MASSIVE gun for spraying Cermark... unless you're trying to cover 4'x8' sheets.

[Kev Williams]

311649
This is what I use- it's cheap, the bottles and air nozzle are totally separate, easy to work with.. I keep the bleeder hole plugged with a piece of toothpick, sprays fine and I can shake it without Cermark getting all over the place. I have some thin craft wire to run down the tube to clean it when it needs it.

The secret to having it not clog? Add more alcohol. I thin mine out big time, and put on 2 coats...

DO get an air pressure regulator. The difference between 5 psi and 8 psi is substantial!

>edit< -- another trick to keep from clogging, cut the intake tube so it's at least 1/8" from the bottom of the jar. Cermark separates real quick, shortening the tube keeps it from picking up the thicker solids...

And finally, because Cermark separates real quick, SHAKE as often as possible...

[Gary Hair]

If you are using that for Cermark then you will waste more than you actually use - might as well use spray cans at that point. A small airbrush is much more effective and less wasteful.


I got this sprayer at Home Depo for $20 bucks. I'm going to hook it up to my compressor and it should work fine! simple little gun that comes all apart for cleaning. I've got 2 compressors from my carpentry business and I'll just mix up my own cermark paste. I seemed to me to be a better vertion of the thing cermark was trying to sell with the can of compessed air...311647311648

[Dan Hintz]

The secret to having it not clog? Add more alcohol. I thin mine out big time, and put on 2 coats...

DO get an air pressure regulator. The difference between 5 psi and 8 psi is substantial!

>edit< -- another trick to keep from clogging, cut the intake tube so it's at least 1/8" from the bottom of the jar. Cermark separates real quick, shortening the tube keeps it from picking up the thicker solids...

And finally, because Cermark separates real quick, SHAKE as often as possible...

I use about a 10:1 ratio... too thin for some, but it has worked out quite well for me, and never once have I have a clog. I tend to shake between squirts, so that likely helps a bit. I never thought of shortening the pickup tube... but I suppose I don't need to if it hasn't caused a problem yet.

[Mike Null]

I was one who recommended stirring the devil out of the jar but somebody recommended putting some small nuts in the jar as agitators and I found that they work better than stirring.

[Tim Bateson]

I too use several cans a year. I don't worry about the waste, as it pays so well. I do occasionally run out of propellent or clog. I bought a re-usable container and can of propellent.

This works for me, but if I did it every day I may use one of the a fore mentioned methods. Any less and you are wasting your valuable time on them.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I didn't like the spray can at all. Very difficult to get the proper, thin coat. Paste with a brush or airbrush is the only way I'd consider doing Cermark.

[Keith Colson]

I used my new airbrush today for a bunch of champagne buckets. I was a little nervous as I had to have this job done by end of week and only my clogged can of Cermark. Plus it was my first time with an airbrush and I was pretty high on "clog fear"

All I can say is wow! The airbrush really did the business. These were my least stressful, highest quality engraves I have done. With the airbrush you can get a super fine coat, no runs at all. And washing is so much easier too. Here are a couple of pics from today's work.

314409

314410

Cheers
Keith

[Mike Null]

As I've mentioned several times earlier, I prefer an air brush but my highest paying job is one where I must use a sponge brush--the one inch variety. It works well and is very economical.

[John Frazee]

I tried the tape when it came out years ago without any luck so that was a hundred bucks wasted. Recently I bought a can and from the start it was clogged and spitting. It made a big mess but I didn't call and complain. I used it instead of the rotary engraver to engrave over 300 big metal keys for some kind of church handout. They looked good when I experimented. I lasered, washed and dried one by one, looked great. I lasered the rest and an employee took the whole batch and soaked them in water as she took each one out and rinsed and dried. All the cermark came off! It left a faint amount, just enough that I had to use a scrubber to clean them. They even discolored so I used a degreaser, used metal etch primer, spray painted them satin silver and the ran them again without the cermark and the customer is happy. She was willing to pay for my trouble but it was my fault, not hers so I didn't charge any extra. She's happy but I'm not! I really thought I was going to save time using cermark and lasering 30 at a time instead of one at a time with the rotary. Boy was I wrong!

[Mike Null]

John

If those keys were brass or aluminum then my experience has been the same as yours. I use Cermark only on steel.

[Kev Williams]

With my 80w Triumph, I can get a 'reasonably' good etch on brass, much more so than my lower powered lasers.

But as good as it seems, if you soak the lasered brass in water for few minutes, the black just comes off...

The only way I'll sell lasered brass is if it's ok with the customer to clearcoat it afterwards. Works great,
seals the Cermark and it ends up looking like gloss black paint.

[Keith Colson]

I Cermarked some pure silver the other day, came out nice and dark. Needed a lot of power as silver is such a good thermal conductor.