Porter-Cable Safety Recall

[Charles Taylor]

Porter-Cable has issued a safety recall today on the bases of some of its production routers: http://www.portercable.com/SafetyAnnouncements.aspx?BlockID=793bd768-5a32-4761-80df-4849548c80e7

The explanation is that the handles on these bases aren't insulated and thus represent a shock hazard. The notice shows a photo of a base that's deemed safe to use and which has plenty of uninsulated surface that can be touched during normal operation. :confused: Anyone want to take a stab at the rationale behind this?

[Bill Huber]

Thanks, I will get mine ordered today.

Again Thanks

[eugene thomas]

Thanks for posting. Less than 5 minutes on phone and on order.

[Andy Fox]

When routing live wires, be careful not to touch the metal part of the handle while using the new insulated base? :rolleyes:

[Kim Gibbens]

They said mine would be shipped once the replacement part became available. Who knows when that might be.

[eugene thomas]

told me would ship middle of july but stressed that am not to use the router till get new base.

[Jon Nuckles]

Thanks for posting this. They told me I would get it this month and that I should not use it "in the hand-held position" until I get the new base. Mine is mounted in a table, so no problem waiting for me.

[ray hampton]

I receive this warning yesterday BUT I fail to see why the tool base need to be insulate if it are made out of plastic

[Bill Huber]

I receive this warning yesterday BUT I fail to see why the tool base need to be insulate if it are made out of plastic

The one I have is not plastic, it is cast aluminum or something like that.

[ray hampton]

The one I have is not plastic, it is cast aluminum or something like that.



what do you think , that maybe the company knew that the tool would be recall but went ahead with the design anyway

[Larry Frank]

I really doubt that they would go ahead with the design knowing that there was a potential recall. They have been making this same router for years and I think that mine is a 2006 or something like that and has the same metal handles.

I will call next week to see if I need to get a new base.

[Bruce Page]

What info do they require?

[Jamie Buxton]

The recall covers routers built from 1990 on. I'll bet Porter-cable designed the router under whatever regulations were in effect twenty-five years ago, and the regs have changed.

I'll check mine when I go to the shop tomorrow, but I'll bet the aluminum exterior of the router is connected to the ground wire. That has been common practice for decades. If that's true, I can't understand what the CSPC is concerned about.

[Duane Meadows]

Wow, if that were to be a shock hazard, you have a worse problem than un-insulated handles, you have a serious problem in the motor as well. Unless of course you are routing through live wires! Or have a mis-wired outlet(did find one of those just yesterday, and no, I didn't wire it!).

[Jason White]

The base without the "insulated" handles has been around for years. I can't imagine it poses that much of a shock hazard.



Porter-Cable has issued a safety recall today on the bases of some of its production routers: http://www.portercable.com/SafetyAnnouncements.aspx?BlockID=793bd768-5a32-4761-80df-4849548c80e7

The explanation is that the handles on these bases aren't insulated and thus represent a shock hazard. The notice shows a photo of a base that's deemed safe to use and which has plenty of uninsulated surface that can be touched during normal operation. :confused: Anyone want to take a stab at the rationale behind this?

[ray hampton]

The base without the "insulated" handles has been around for years. I can't imagine it poses that much of a shock hazard.

one reason that some people are sensible to electric are because they are sweating or standing in water, both will give you a standing salute

[Jamie Buxton]

The recall covers routers built from 1990 on. I'll bet Porter-cable designed the router under whatever regulations were in effect twenty-five years ago, and the regs have changed.

I'll check mine when I go to the shop tomorrow, but I'll bet the aluminum exterior of the router is connected to the ground wire. That has been common practice for decades. If that's true, I can't understand what the CSPC is concerned about.

Well, my guess was wrong. My Speedmatic has a two-prong plug, and most of the exterior is aluminum. It is not just the handles that are metal, but also the rest of the base, and the motor housing too.

This isn't good design. Ever since houses started having three-hole outlets, the usual approach is that devices with metal exteriors have to connect that exterior to the ground in the outlet. Devices with just two prongs have non-conductive exteriors. The idea is that it will take two simultaneous failures to electrocute you. In the metal-exterior approach, if electricity gets loose inside the device (that's one failure), it will hit the grounded exterior before it gets to the operator. Only if the ground fails too (second failure) does the operator die. In the double-insulated approach (that is, a non-conductive exterior), the electricity has to escape the wires inside the device (failure number one), and then somehow also get through the non-conductive exterior (failure number two) to electrocute the operator. With the Speedmatic's design, it only takes one failure to be lethal, so I can see why the CPSC is concerned.

What would be the fix? My guess is that Porter-Cable upgrades the power cable to a three-conductor one, and uses the additional wire to connect the router's housing to ground at the outlet.

How long will the upgrade take? Your guess is as good as mine. But my guess is nigh-unto-never. Porter Cable is barely staying afloat these days, and there's no profit in upgrading tools they've already sold. If I send the router back to PC, I'd immediately buy another router from some other manufacturer, because I can't afford to be without that capability for very long. I'm inclined to take mine apart to see if I can upgrade it myself.

[Curt Harms]

I'm pretty sure they're upgrading the base, not the motor so no 3rd prong. For anyone that has the knowledge/ability, I like your idea of grounding the motor better, the addition of insulated handles would be icing on the cake, so to speak. I'm surprised to learn that 2 prong metal cased tools have been sold in the past decade or more.

[Michael Kellough]

Well, my guess was wrong. My Speedmatic has a two-prong plug, and most of the exterior is aluminum. It is not just the handles that are metal, but also the rest of the base, and the motor housing too.

This isn't good design. Ever since houses started having three-hole outlets, the usual approach is that devices with metal exteriors have to connect that exterior to the ground in the outlet. Devices with just two prongs have non-conductive exteriors. The idea is that it will take two simultaneous failures to electrocute you. In the metal-exterior approach, if electricity gets loose inside the device (that's one failure), it will hit the grounded exterior before it gets to the operator. Only if the ground fails too (second failure) does the operator die. In the double-insulated approach (that is, a non-conductive exterior), the electricity has to escape the wires inside the device (failure number one), and then somehow also get through the non-conductive exterior (failure number two) to electrocute the operator. With the Speedmatic's design, it only takes one failure to be lethal, so I can see why the CPSC is concerned.

What would be the fix? My guess is that Porter-Cable upgrades the power cable to a three-conductor one, and uses the additional wire to connect the router's housing to ground at the outlet.

How long will the upgrade take? Your guess is as good as mine. But my guess is nigh-unto-never. Porter Cable is barely staying afloat these days, and there's no profit in upgrading tools they've already sold. If I send the router back to PC, I'd immediately buy another router from some other manufacturer, because I can't afford to be without that capability for very long. I'm inclined to take mine apart to see if I can upgrade it myself.

It shouldn't be too difficult to find a place to anchor a grounding wire. I'm very surprised yours is only 2-wire.
The recall notice doesn't say anything about returning the tool. (http://www.portercable.com/SafetyAnnouncements.aspx?BlockID=793bd768-5a32-4761-80df-4849548c80e7) It just says to call the # and get on the list for a replacement base with non-conductive handles.

Seems like you can have douvle insulation in an aluminum housing without a grounded cord...
From a Hitachi description,
"Internal Double Insulation (IDI) technology enables the aluminum housing to be intertwined with an injection molded inner nylon core to combine the durability of an all metal body tool with the double insulation advantages of a tool with plastic housing"

If the router motor is sufficiently insulated from the the motor housing that protection should carry through to the base so I'm not sure what improvement was added after date 2014 14.

[Tom M King]

Do you get to keep the old base? I have five of them used in my router "tops".

[Jon Nuckles]

I was told that I would receive the new base and a card to fill out and return. Definitely no mention of returning the old base.

[eugene thomas]

well the new base showed up today. now i feel safe using,,,,:)

[Jon Nuckles]

My new base also arrived today. The card that you are asked to fill out and send back contains an acknowledgement that you understand the old base could present a shock hazard and an agreement not to use it.

[Tony Haukap]

Old and new handles...
http://i60.tinypic.com/2u8xxrl.jpg
It appears that they just dipped the handles into some sort of anti-slip coating. When I called I also asked about the plunge router version (model # PC7539) and they said no, just the fixed based was part of the recall. As you can see the plunge base already has plastic handles, except for a small extension on the bottom of the handle.
_
Color difference...
http://i61.tinypic.com/zntsg9.jpg
Don't know how well the difference appears in the photo, the new base is painted a raw aluminum color and the old PC routers are a medium gray color. I've had my 'BIG' routers for quite a while and it seems that Porter-Cable has at some point changed their color scheme and their logo too!

[ray hampton]

the new handles do not look any better than the old style EXCEPT they will not be as cold to grip with your hand, a roll of electric tape wipe around the old handle WOULD have serve the same purpose

[Ole Anderson]

I agree, this recall makes no sense to me. If there is an electrical shock issue, then the whole exterior of the router and base has the potential to become live. Who never touches something other than the handles at some point when it is running? I can see adding a grounded cord to those that only have a two wire plug, but that rationale would extend to millions of electrical tools without grounded casings or not double insulated. I could understand the recall if the power switch were in the handles as it is on many other routers.

[Jeff Heil]

Glad I choose to read SMK tonight. Another example of the great value of this site. Fortunately, my 7518 is mounted in my router table, but I still touch it to turn it on and off at the switch. Ordering my new base tomorrow.

[Tony Haukap]

A little more information...http://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/woodworking-industry-management/woodshop-safety-regulations/Porter-Cable-Recalls-More-Than-100000-Portable-Routers-266595161.html
http://i58.tinypic.com/2s7xdhc.gifA couple of interesting tidbits...
According to CPSC, the U.S. recall involves about 100,000... The recall also involves about 7,800 routers sold in Canada.They sold nationwide and in Canada for between $85 and $690.Why so few sold in Canada? And who was selling these for $85?! :)

[ray hampton]

A little more information...http://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/woodworking-industry-management/woodshop-safety-regulations/Porter-Cable-Recalls-More-Than-100000-Portable-Routers-266595161.html
http://i58.tinypic.com/2s7xdhc.gif
A couple of interesting tidbits...Why so few sold in Canada? And who was selling these for $85?! :)

the more important question is , who would pay 8 times the bottom price

[Gary Muto]

Chuck,

Thanks for posting. I called in for my replacement yesterday. I don't use the base much but it's nice to see the customer support.

Regarding the other comments about usefulness, I generally agree but the new handles should help improve the grip too.

[Jason White]

Correct, but the only way you'd get shocked using the old base with bare metal handles is if the hot wire inside the motor came loose for some reason and contacted the motor housing. The chances of that happening are slim, but it must've happened to at least one person, hence the recall.


the new handles do not look any better than the old style EXCEPT they will not be as cold to grip with your hand, a roll of electric tape wipe around the old handle WOULD have serve the same purpose

[ray hampton]

Correct, but the only way you'd get shocked using the old base with bare metal handles is if the hot wire inside the motor came loose for some reason and contacted the motor housing. The chances of that happening are slim, but it must've happened to at least one person, hence the recall.

on the older tools , the insulator would crack from being flex and pretty soon the wire would be free to touch the metal housing or your hand could touch the hot wire

[Mort Stevens]

Correct, but the only way you'd get shocked using the old base with bare metal handles is if the hot wire inside the motor came loose for some reason and contacted the motor housing.

What happens if you route into the power cord? Or plunge into a wall cavity and hit a live wire? There are probably several ways to get hurt on the uninsulated handles, but I would agree that the chances are minimal.

[Mike Henderson]

What happens if you route into the power cord? Or plunge into a wall cavity and hit a live wire? There are probably several ways to get hurt on the uninsulated handles, but I would agree that the chances are minimal.
Most of the tools like this are double insulated and that's why they can use a 2-prong plug. If the tool is double insulated, I suspect the safety recall is for cases where you would route into a wire. The current would flow through the bit, into the base, and into you. If there was a risk of the motor shorting to the housing, the recall would be different - they'd recall the motor.

Mike

[John Broomall]

I bought my 7518 back in the '90's. It took about three weeks for the base to arrive after I called. The call was handled very professionally. This worked out well for me since I had dropped the router and cracked the old base a few years ago. Now, if they would recall the speed control, I'd be set for another twenty years.

[eugene thomas]

Is their any value in the old bases... seems their showing up for sale now?

[Jon Nuckles]

I see that as well. MAYBE people are buying them to use in a table and the risk of shock is less of an issue. More likely the buyers are unaware of the recall.

[Marty Tippin]

Is their any value in the old bases... seems their showing up for sale now?

The old bases are supposed to be thrown in the trash when you receive the new one; there's a statement to that effect included with the replacement bases. They shouldn't be for sale anywhere, but I'm sure there are plenty of folks who don't care about safety as long as they can make a few bucks...

[Dimitrios Fradelakis]

They shouldn't be for sale anywhere, but I'm sure there are plenty of folks who don't care about safety as long as they can make a few bucks...

Not the way I would want to make money. Some people must be really tight on cash...

[Matt Day]

Three have been three in our classifieds already. I think some comments about the recall were removed from one of the threads. Making money off recalled items that have been replaced for free is pretty low. Kind of a scam to both buyers and PC.

[Vijay Kumar]

Still dont understand what the safety issue is. The handle has no electrical components. All the electricals are in the body

If the router body is alive with electricity is it not a problem to use it in a router lift or by itself as most of he table mounted routers are? I would like to understand the reasoning behind this recall and whether we still have an issue with table mounted routers.

[Mike Henderson]

Still dont understand what the safety issue is. The handle has no electrical components. All the electricals are in the body

If the router body is alive with electricity is it not a problem to use it in a router lift or by itself as most of he table mounted routers are? I owuld liek to undersstand the reasoning behind this recall and whether we still have an issue with table mounted routers.
My guess is that the problem related to someone routing into a live wire. The motor is double insulated and if they had a problem with the double insulation, they'd recall the motor.

So it seems to me that there would be no problem using the router and base in a table.

Mike

[Dimitrios Fradelakis]

Three have been three in our classifieds already. I think some comments about the recall were removed from one of the threads. Making money off recalled items that have been replaced for free is pretty low. Kind of a scam to both buyers and PC.

I had made a comment and yes it was removed.

[Marty Tippin]

Still dont understand what the safety issue is. The handle has no electrical components. All the electricals are in the body

The funny thing is, the new replacement bases simply have a rubberized coating over the hand hold part, while the vast majority of the surface of the base is still bare metal and still an electrocution hazard (at least, as much as the original all-metal base was ever a hazard)....

[william watts]

The funny thing is, the new replacement bases simply have a rubberized coating over the hand hold part, while the vast majority of the surface of the base is still bare metal and still an electrocution hazard (at least, as much as the original all-metal base was ever a hazard)....

Insulating the handles may meet the standard a regulation they must meet, regardless of the effectiveness of the modification.

Bill

[Bruce Page]

Guys, if you have a question or concern contact the seller by PM. As stated in the Classifieds Forum Rules sticky at the top of the forum:

"The Classifieds Forum is not a discussion forum. Questions regarding item description, clarification, functionality, etc. are to be expected. However, questions or comments concerning price, value, etc. as well as any price negotiations should be addressed directly to the seller through the Private Messaging (PM) system."

[Jon Nuckles]

Bruce, in all fairness, selling a recalled and potentially dangerous item is an unusual situation. Pointing out the recall protects users of this forum who might not be aware of it. Those comments certainly relate to the "functionality" of the item. I think you should reconsider your action removing the comments.
Respectfully, Jon

[Matt Meiser]

Actually it's not a moral issue. Selling a recalled item is illegal. Page 3. www.cpsc.gov//Global/Business-and-Manufacturing/Business-Education/ResellersGuide.pdf

[Bruce Page]

I edited my comment. My point was the classifieds is not the place for discussing someone's ethics. If you have concerns PM the seller.

[Jon Nuckles]

If the relevant concern were the seller's ethics, a PM to him or her would address the problem. The concern, however, is that buyers understand the risk they may be taking if they use the recalled base. Not everyone is aware of the recall.

[eugene thomas]

Now ya see it. Poff it's gone. Seems to be way of posting in smc now a days.

[Ryan Baker]

I have to agree with John and Matt on this. Pointing out the recall (assuming it wasn't an attack on the seller) is not questioning the sellers ethics or morality (or having off-topic discussion). It is making a potential buyer aware that there is a potential safety issue they may not be aware of. (I just found out about this recall yesterday when the thread popped back up.) The buyer can then make a decision as to whether that information is a concern to them. It's simply disclosing facts. For SMC to actively block a potential safety warning is something I would consider a problem.