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Steven Green
07-01-2014, 2:15 PM
I need some advice from somebody more tech savvy than I am. Recently I had a crash on a tower I own, the hard drive quit. I have been syncing that computer with a second one that sits next to it. I have a huge list of different files that are residing on the remaining computer and I can access them. However I can't copy move or manipulate them in any way. My concern is that sooner or later that drive will die leaving me without all those files. What do I need to do to make those files that were synced to the second available for copying, moving, etc?

Phil Thien
07-01-2014, 2:30 PM
It is probably a permission issue. Is this Windows? The easiest way is likely to take ownership of the files. When you try to access the files are you told something along the lines of "you don't currently have permission to access the files?"

Give us some more details (namely the O/S and version) and I or someone else can help you out.

Steven Green
07-01-2014, 4:02 PM
The OS is Windows Vista 64 bit thanks for the help

David Masters
07-01-2014, 4:08 PM
I agree with Phil that this is most likely a permissions issue. I'd also like to know what method you used to sync the files between computers? Were the computers networked and files transferred over the network? Was the USER ID you used have an account on the other computer? Was a specific tool or utility used to do the backup/copy? As Phil said, the OS you are using would be helpful.

Phil Thien
07-01-2014, 6:56 PM
The OS is Windows Vista 64 bit thanks for the help

Okay and what is the EXACT (try it again, post a picture if need be) wording of the message you get when you try to access those files to open, or copy, them?

Alan Caro
07-03-2014, 1:43 AM
Steven Green,

Perhaps I'm not understanding the full extent of the problem, but if you have access to the files- can open them on the working system, my idea is to buy an external drive of some kind- a USB solid state flash drive or a mech'l drive in an enclosure, and, using Windows Explorer, simply copy the folders onto it. This avoids LAN (local) network problems and possibly the kinds of permissions used. Then, when the second system has a new HD, use the external drive to copy onto it.

If, the second system doesn't allow the copying, then the other comments about permissions- "ownership" -are probably correct. And Vista found a way to make it a bit different for no good reason >

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_vista-security/how-to-get-full-admin-rights-on-vista/ad5e6d78-f54b-4de3-8e13-1a73cca30529

http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/67567-administrator-account.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ip44Fp4ns

After 22 years of computer use and various losses, I think it's a good idea to have at least one good external drive that is regularly backed up and have two external copies of archived files. I have five external drives- 8GB and 16GB flash drives, and 160GB, 320GB, and 500GB mech'l drives. I use the flash drives and the 320GB 2.5" drive for transfers and the 160 and 500GB drives for backing up. The beauty of this approach is that the external drive is running only when backing up / transferring, so the drive is isolated from viruses and last forever. The 160GB Seagate drive is seven years old and has only 1400 hours on it. I have had spotty results with a 2.5" non-ventilated drive, the 320GB Western Digital Passport. and recommend buying a 3.5", enclosure with good ventilation and a fan- and having a decent size, good quality mech'l drive. These days I would suggest the StarTech Aluminum enclosure with fan- about $40 and a Western Digital Blue 500GB or 1TB.

I also keep a partition and two copies of a "system image". The system image, (made in EaseUs ToDo Workstation) is a copy of the C:\ drive so that Windows and all my programs- can be reloaded with a couple of clicks and about 45 minutes. In my case, the C: drive without any files contains 160GB, and if I have to load everything individually, it takes about three days.


Alan Caro

HP z420 > Xeon E5-1620 quad core 3.6 / 3.8 GHz, 24GB ECC 1600 RAM > Quadro 4000 > Samsung 840 SSD 250GB > WD Black 1TB > Win 7 Ultimate 64

Dell Precision T5400 > 2-Xeon X5460 quad core 3.16GHz > 16GB ECC 667 RAM > Quadro FX 4800 > WD RE4 500GB / Seagate 500GB > Win 7 Ult 64

Andrew Pitonyak
07-03-2014, 9:14 AM
If, the second system doesn't allow the copying, then the other comments about permissions- "ownership" -are probably correct. And Vista found a way to make it a bit different for no good reason

Yeah, I feel your pain. A few years back I had to do something similar when a Vista machine refused to allow me (even as admin) to touch the files to move them in to a new machine.... so, I used a Linux boot disk; end of problem.

Alan Caro
07-03-2014, 11:28 AM
Yeah, I feel your pain. A few years back I had to do something similar when a Vista machine refused to allow me (even as admin) to touch the files to move them in to a new machine.... so, I used a Linux boot disk; end of problem.

Andrew Pitonyak,

I suppose I've become one of the billions of people that question the primacy of Windows. I know quite a few PC enthusiasts that criticize Apple for not really allowing "getting under the hood" to repair it, but from another angle, Apple doesn't seem to need it, plus the interface and applications are infinitely more intuitive and elegant looking. I think of Windows use as continuously fixing the tools. The Sawmill Creek analog to Windows might be having a really ugly, heavy hammer that cost a fortune and the head fell off after every nail. All the actual improvements in Windows over the years have been ways in which it was made to resemble Apple OS and all the regressions have been to make it more like Windows. I saw a comment by Bill Gates to Steve Jobs that was a rare instance of someone being truthfully self-critical, "I envy your taste."

My HP m2496f and Dell Precision T5400 both arrived with Vista Business . MS has this odd way of assuming that change is always good and the bigger the pile of things that are always running the better. I converted both systems- at substantial cost- as XP Professional within two months. I still think of XP Pro as the best OS MS ever made (and Windows 95 the worst) as XP Pro was the magic moment of capability without bloat.

I've been tempted by Linux for years as it is dynamically improved and tailored to be lean and efficient and it's incidentally good-looking in a purposeful way. I like tools to appear as tools and not what I call "fuzzy bears", that are always predicting what I should be doing. I think of Linux as the operating system for adults, but I've put too much time and investment into the fuzzy bear world to make a change. I use some old-fashioned PCI sound cards and sound editing software that don't have drivers or run on Linux or I'd dive in and try it.

My technological motto : "Computers: Love them or hate them, you're going to hate them."

Alan Caro

Phil Thien
07-03-2014, 11:58 AM
I suppose I've become one of the billions of people that question the primacy of Windows. I know quite a few PC enthusiasts that criticize Apple for not really allowing "getting under the hood" to repair it, but from another angle, Apple doesn't seem to need it, plus the interface and applications are infinitely more intuitive and elegant looking.

If you really think OS X doesn't "need it," then you should hang-around an Apple store's "Genius Bar" for a while and listen to the convos going on there.

I use both (Windows and OS X) extensively, BTW. I do IT for a living, own at least six to eight Macs at any time. I like my Macs (and my iPhones and my iPads) but trouble-free? Nope.

Alan Caro
07-03-2014, 1:26 PM
If you really think OS X doesn't "need it," then you should hang-around an Apple store's "Genius Bar" for a while and listen to the convos going on there.

I use both (Windows and OS X) extensively, BTW. I do IT for a living, own at least six to eight Macs at any time. I like my Macs (and my iPhones and my iPads) but trouble-free? Nope.


Phil Thien,

I should know better than to make any statements about computers- taking exception seems to be the rule.

In my view, those who comment are far more likely to be the ones with problems- those with smoothly operating systems don't need to seek solutions to problems at a "Genius Bar". That's why user reviews on commercial and technological sites can't be taken very seriously- the satisfied people are less likely to comment.

I'm sorry I've never been to a Genius Bar, they must serve fish and Oxygen on iSmartPlates.

Probably, it would be more judicious to say that about every comment I've heard about using computer use in the last several years has had to do with Windows and PC hardware frustrations, while the Apple users I know seem to only talk about the work they're doing. Linux users seem to focus on positive adjustments and solutions- i.e. happy success stories- they're proud of their childrens' good grades on recent tests. This I thought reflected a general difference in attitude towards personal computers but may of course be the result of the type of personality that chooses each type. Apple users seem to concentrate on what computers can do creatively- sort of assume the system will work, Windows users don't want to know too much -are frustrated how often getting the job done is interrupted, and Linux users appear pleased with contributing to the design of their own digital environments and like to promote their favorite flavor- Red hat, Ubuntu, or whatever.

I'm sure there are exceptions,...

Alan Caro

Curt Harms
07-04-2014, 7:15 AM
<snip>
I use some old-fashioned PCI sound cards and sound editing software that don't have drivers or run on Linux or I'd dive in and try it.

My technological motto : "Computers: Love them or hate them, you're going to hate them."

Alan Caro

Alan, if you want waste some time ;), I'd suggest you create a live DVD or live USB and try one. I'd recommend this as a starting point.

http://linuxmint.com/

Download here:

http://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=157

It should be pretty familiar to Windows XP users and supports a LOT of hardware 'out of the box'. Something foreign to Windows users is not needing to download drivers. A great many drivers are 'rolled into' the linux kernel so things 'just work'. Of course if they don't it can be simple, a challenge or impossible to get them to work. Running a live DVD/USB doesn't touch your existing hard drive but will let you know pretty quickly about your hardware status.

Tom Stenzel
07-04-2014, 10:41 AM
When Win XP bellies up on my computer, I'll convert it to Linux. When I do I'll be insufferably smug about it.:)

A few years back I ran into a permissions issue on Win XP where I couldn't open a directory on my own machine. I ended up booting with a Knoppix CD to open the directory and copy the contents to a USB thumb drive. I could open the files on the thumb drive with Win XP. No, I don't know what went wrong. I was just glad linux was able to bail me out.

-Tom

Phil Thien
07-04-2014, 10:52 AM
When Win XP bellies up on my computer, I'll convert it to Linux. When I do I'll be insufferably smug about it.:)

A few years back I ran into a permissions issue on Win XP where I couldn't open a directory on my own machine. I ended up booting with a Knoppix CD to open the directory and copy the contents to a USB thumb drive. I could open the files on the thumb drive with Win XP. No, I don't know what went wrong. I was just glad linux was able to bail me out.

-Tom

That works because Linux doesn't give a rat's-a$$ about permissions on NTFS volumes.

But Linux DOES care about permissions on Linux volumes and you absolutely can get the same trouble (can't access some of your native Linux files under your Linux distro).

Discussions about operating system merits are akin to comparing a LN to LV/Veritas hand planes.

David G Baker
07-04-2014, 10:56 AM
It "ain't" cheap but it is worth the bucks verses loosing all of your files, I use Carbonite as a back up for all of my work. It costs about the same as a large hard drive so why not give it a try after you solve your file issues. I also use a 1T external hard drive as a local back-up that is synced with Carbonite just in case. So far I haven't had to use Carbonite to replace lost work so I can't tell you how good it really is but if and when I have a crash I will share my experience.

Jerome Stanek
07-04-2014, 4:22 PM
I back up to a network storage disk that I also use to hold my files that I need to access from the CNC and Laser computers in the shop

Curt Harms
07-05-2014, 9:57 AM
That works because Linux doesn't give a rat's-a$$ about permissions on NTFS volumes.

But Linux DOES care about permissions on Linux volumes and you absolutely can get the same trouble (can't access some of your native Linux files under your Linux distro).

Discussions about operating system merits are akin to comparing a LN to LV/Veritas hand planes.

You're not wrong about THAT one :). I tend to use NTFS or FAT32 to archive linux files because I have no need to restrict access so avoid the permissions issue. FAT32 don't care 'nuthin 'bout no permissions :D (as far as I can tell).

Andrew Pitonyak
07-07-2014, 3:42 PM
Apple is already running on top of Linux :D

Although I used to be a heavy apple user (back in the 80's), I have very little recent experience. But, it seems to me that Apple has worked hard to support their hardware. They limit what is available (limit your choices) and that means that you are far less likely to have compatibility issues. Not always true I am told, but mostly so. So, you pay a premium for it, but you certainly get something in return.

On Linux, I can find an application for almost anything and simply say "install that". I happen to really like a lot of what I can simply install and run.

On the other hand, Windows has more of certain types of applications; for example, tax software and the latest games.

For sure, Linux seems to run multiple virtual machines much better than Windows. I have not done this on MAC so I cannot speak with authority on this, but, I understand that it does a good job (by good I mean better than Windows and no comment on Linux or Mac being better).

I know for certain that Linux was way more stable than Windows, but Microsoft seems to have improved significantly in this regard. I find that some of the video drivers on Linux can be a bit flaky. I used to find the same on Windows, but, they were still usually more stable than the Linux video drivers.

Oh, and my opinion is that Microsoft creates the best Visual software development environment, but, again, that is just my opinion.

Andrew Pitonyak
07-07-2014, 3:50 PM
That works because Linux doesn't give a rat's-a$$ about permissions on NTFS volumes.

Well, mostly.... I think that the real trick is that as long as you can become root on Linux, you will not have special hidden fiddly attributes that prevent you from just doing what you want.


But Linux DOES care about permissions on Linux volumes and you absolutely can get the same trouble (can't access some of your native Linux files under your Linux distro).

I have seen this a few times, but, that seems to be far less common. I have also heard about some new attribute that on some file systems it can prevent you from doing almost anything to a file until you realize that this one particular attribute is set. More likely to see that sort of thing in a large server environment I think.

When I last had problems on a Windows box, even as an administrator, Windows refused to let me change things so that I could copy files from one user account to another. I would tell it to change the permissions, it would say "sure, I can do that for you" and then nothing would happen. You are correct that this can happen on Linux, but, less likely. For an experienced system administrator I expect that none of this would have been a problem for either OS (well, still maybe for one of those odd-ball Linux cases).


Discussions about operating system merits are akin to comparing a LN to LV/Veritas hand planes.

For sure this is true. I can provide a list of things I like and dislike for these operating systems.... My favorite Bible software runs great on Windows and MAC, but not on Linux. It also happens to work on Android with reduced functionality; too bad WINE is not able to run it on Linux.

Curt Harms
07-08-2014, 8:04 AM
Apple is already running on top of Linux :D

Kinda sorta maybe. From Wikipedia: OS X is based upon the Mach kernel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_kernel). Certain parts from FreeBSD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD)'s and NetBSD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetBSD)'s implementation of Unix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix) were incorporated in NeXTSTEP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTSTEP), the core of Mac OS X.

Although I used to be a heavy apple user (back in the 80's), I have very little recent experience. But, it seems to me that Apple has worked hard to support their hardware. They limit what is available (limit your choices) and that means that you are far less likely to have compatibility issues. Not always true I am told, but mostly so. So, you pay a premium for it, but you certainly get something in return.

On Linux, I can find an application for almost anything and simply say "install that". I happen to really like a lot of what I can simply install and run.

On the other hand, Windows has more of certain types of applications; for example, tax software and the latest games.

For sure, Linux seems to run multiple virtual machines much better than Windows. I have not done this on MAC so I cannot speak with authority on this, but, I understand that it does a good job (by good I mean better than Windows and no comment on Linux or Mac being better).

I haven't done it lately but Windows ran pretty well in a Virtualbox VM under Ubuntu. It seemed like not all that much of a performance hit for common uses. You would have to pay attention to Windows licensing. I believe that some Windows versions cannot be run as a guest O.S. but I'm not at all versed in such matter.


I know for certain that Linux was way more stable than Windows, but Microsoft seems to have improved significantly in this regard. I find that some of the video drivers on Linux can be a bit flaky. I used to find the same on Windows, but, they were still usually more stable than the Linux video drivers.

The Nvidia drivers for linux seem pretty stable. ATI/AMD used to be a problem but I believe that has improved lately.

Oh, and my opinion is that Microsoft creates the best Visual software development environment, but, again, that is just my opinion.

It seems like with Linux if you can find application software and compatible hardware it's a smooth ride. If you can't live without MSO, Adobe CS or Quickbooks, Windows in a VM or dual boot is the only practical option AFAIK. MSO and older Adobe stuff supposedly work pretty well with WINE/Playonlinux/codeweavers but I've never played with it.

Phil Thien
07-08-2014, 10:31 AM
Apple is already running on top of Linux :D


FreeBSD, really.

When having problems w/ permissions on Windows, drop to a command-line as Administrator and use the cacls or icacls. I usually just take ownership of the files but you can get more finely-grained than that, too.

*nix permission issues depend on the filesystem.