Veritas Bench Holddown Catastrophic Failure

[Stanley Covington]

I own two of Veritas's screw-action holddowns.

http://www.fine-tools.com/V307972.jpg

I have used them for several years, and found them convenient. A couple of weeks ago, however, one of them broke right at the pivot point. Looking at the poor, broken thing, it seems a miracle it held up as long as it did. Not much meat at a critical location.

I never tightened it other than by hand, nor did I strike it with tools. The point I am making is that they were not abused.

The lady at Veritas offered to sell a replacement arm to me for $21.50, but by the time I pay the shipping cost to Japan, I could almost buy a new one.

Chris Vandiver kindly gave me a couple of his Peter Ross's handforged traditional holddowns to use, and they are absolutely wonderful! I highly recommend them.

Simple is best. Caveat Emptor.

http://d2amilv9vi9flo.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ross_overall_IMG_1013-200x300.jpg

[Jim Matthews]

I had a similar experience.

The post that threads into the bottom works
pulled out of the aluminum housing.

More to repair than to buy a set of Grammercy Holdfasts.

They're a delicate copy of the bullet proof Record version, which requires an inset collar.

One of my few disappointments coming from Ottawa.

[Rich Enders]

So... after reading your posts I had to go check mine out. They seem fine, in spite of the way I have (miss) treated them. They are in constant use, frequently over tightened, and used as a hammer in a pinch. I have had them for maybe 15 years, possibly from when Veritas first introduced them.

Sorry to learn about your issues. It sounds like an original defect as opposed to anything you could do to these things.

[Tony Wilkins]

Not much to go wrong on Peter Ross's or any hand-forged original holdfasts. Sorry to hear of your issue with the Veritas.

[Shawn Pixley]

Good to know. I have a veritas holdfast like that. I also have two old style that I forged when I fist got my anvil. Not pretty, but they work.

[john zulu]

@Stanley: Can you post the picture of the broken pivot. I have one holdfast from Veritas.

[Mike Brady]

Sorry to hear of that failure and I am a bit surprised that LV charges for a failed part. I have both the LV and traditional holdfasts and find myself reaching most often for the LV because they hold so well. Perhaps I will change this around and used my driven ones most often. This potentially gives me yet another LV tool that has delivered less-than-expected performance. Several of mine sit unused or have been sold off.

[george wilson]

I'm sure that when LV sees this thread,they'll make it right.

Probably a case of an underling being afraid to exceed their authority.

[Cody Kemble]

Where can one procure a pair of these hand forged holdfasts?

[lowell holmes]

Where can one procure a pair of these hand forged holdfasts?


Tools for Working Wood sells them. They are for 3/4" holes in 1 3/4" thick top.

[Jon Nuckles]

The Gramercy holdfasts from Tools for Working Wood may be recommended for a 1 3/4" top, but they still work well in my 3" top. I wouldn't be without them.

[Jim Koepke]

Stanley,

I also would be interested in a picture to see what failed.

My thought is the weakest link would be the roll pin. That wouldn't be too difficult to replace.

jtk

[Cody Kemble]

I looked at the ones on TFWW and I think they can't be beat for the price. I have a top slightly over 4" thick clamped up downstairs and was wondering if the forged ones may be a better fit.

[Christopher Charles]

FYI, I have the gramercy holdfasts and a 4" thick top. Work just fine.

c

[Tony Wilkins]

Mine costs more than the Grammercy from TFWW. They were forged by Peter Ross, are beefy, and work quite well. Black Bear Forge also sells them. No experience with them but Lie-Nielsen has started to sell holdfasts.

[Rob Lee]

I'm sure that when LV sees this thread,they'll make it right.

Probably a case of an underling being afraid to exceed their authority.

Yup - customer service is already on it....if it breaks - we'll replace it....


Cheers -

Rob

[george wilson]

That's what I thought!!:)

[Stanley Covington]

Contact rosspm@msn.com. Peter does answer his email, but 8 week backlog.

Truly an heirloom tool that will last for generations.

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

I agree, the roll pin looks like the weak link, and if I was designing something like this, the inexpensive and easily-replaced roll pin would be designed to fail first saving the arm. Maybe it is, but the pin held up, and the arm fractured directly above and below the roll pin hole.

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

Yup - customer service is already on it....if it breaks - we'll replace it....


Cheers -

Rob

I received an email from Lee Valley today informing me the part is being sent to me free-of-charge. Reading the email, it appears LV does not intend to charge me UPS postage either, but since it is international, and expensive to ship to Japan, and certainly not LV's fault I live so far away, I will reimburse them for the shipping cost.

I have bought lots of tools and hardware from LV over the years, and heard that they have great service for defective merchandise, but have never had anything break, or received a defective tool or merchandise before now, and so have never experienced their customer service. I must say that it appears LV's customer service is everything they say it is. Thanks, Rob.

Stan

[Robert Flowers]

You know with all the car recalls going on and companies waiting years after they find out a problem its good to see that there are still companies that stand behind their product. I lost the plastic angle finder to a LV tool rest and they sent me a new one and would not charge me at let me pay shipping and I told them it was my fault I lost it.
You know we have St. Roy maybe we should start calling Mr. Lee St. Rob.

[Don Dorn]

I also have one that sees constant use. I'll be just a bit more careful with it from this point as I'd hate to see it go out of commission.

[john zulu]

Most of the stuff are of high standard. LV does learn from mistakes. The shooting plane handle with the adjustable bolt does intrigue me. I hope the stress of the shooting does not crack it.

The rest like LV LAJ is of excellent design no issues there. Very solid built.

[Shawn Pixley]

I was using mine today. I really didn't put much force on it as I was mostly inlaying material. But there have been times where it has been subjected to some real stress.

[Frank Martin]

I have two of the same and been using it over the last 12 years. Admittedly I spend little time woodworking, but never had any issues with mine. I would rather turn a screw to apply force rather than doing it with a mallet, so love the Veritas version. I was sure LV would make it right and glad to see it is the case.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Any Galoots in Central PA, that get the State College PBS station (WPSU), at 10:00 AM Roy Underhill's show is a repeat of forging holdfasts (probably Peter Ross).

[Rob Young]

I looked at the ones on TFWW and I think they can't be beat for the price. I have a top slightly over 4" thick clamped up downstairs and was wondering if the forged ones may be a better fit.

For the price, you are supposed to beat the holdfasts...

[Steve Voigt]

FYI, I have the gramercy holdfasts and a 4" thick top. Work just fine.

c

Interesting…my top started out at almost 4" and the Gramercy holdfasts did not work at all, out of the box. Counterboring the holes from the underside fixed the problem. Hole diameter might have something to do with it also…my holes were right at .750 and are probably a tad under now, as the top has shrunk. Sloppier holes might work better with a thicker top.

[Winton Applegate]

Role pins here. Role pins there.
You got me looking at role pins.
I never paid much attention before.
I was surprised to see one in this tool. It is right at the base of the little adjustable hook. It connects the hook to the selected adjusting notch.
http://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-FFS-2-Handlebar-Straightener/dp/B001719K6G/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1404004068&sr=1-1&keywords=frame+straightener

I use these for every thing. They are a bicycle tool but they make a first rate "cheater bar". You can use them in pairs. I have had so much force on them at times, with a long pipe on the end of the cheater bar, ha, ha, (now that is really cheating) that the tool goes sproing and gets kind of sprung side ways . . .
but the role pin has never, in more than thirty years of doing this kind of thing, ever given out or got mashed and fell out etc.

Hard to tell from the photo but this Park tool is about three feet long.

Strong things role pins, I would'a put a solid pin there if I was designing this leverage tool.

The role pin is for sure plenty strong.

[Stanley Covington]

I wanted to give an update.

I received a replacement arm from Lee Valley last week. It was sent to me here in Tokyo via international express. Lee Valley's Customer Service Lady wrote that the whole matter was a misunderstanding, and that the tool was indeed fully guaranteed per LV's standard CS policy. She politely declined my offer to pay the shipping costs. This was not only more than I expected, it was more than the circumstances warranted in light of the part having been used for several years before failure.

Lee Valley is a classy outfit that really does put a high priority on customer satisfaction, even when it costs them money. In this day when most CEO's can't put their socks on in the morning without first getting advice from their lawyers, and the quality of weasel words used are deemed more important the the quality of the product being sold, LV stands out as very different from the crowd. I will continue to do business with them.

Stan


I own two of Veritas's screw-action holddowns.

http://www.fine-tools.com/V307972.jpg

I have used them for several years, and found them convenient. A couple of weeks ago, however, one of them broke right at the pivot point. Looking at the poor, broken thing, it seems a miracle it held up as long as it did. Not much meat at a critical location.

I never tightened it other than by hand, nor did I strike it with tools. The point I am making is that they were not abused.

The lady at Veritas offered to sell a replacement arm to me for $21.50, but by the time I pay the shipping cost to Japan, I could almost buy a new one.

Chris Vandiver kindly gave me a couple of his Peter Ross's handforged traditional holddowns to use, and they are absolutely wonderful! I highly recommend them.

Simple is best. Caveat Emptor.

http://d2amilv9vi9flo.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ross_overall_IMG_1013-200x300.jpg

[Alan Schwabacher]

I think we can summarize by saying that simple is good, but Veritas is truth. I built a cabinet under my workbench with drawers that pull to both sides, and space for TFWW holdfasts below the 3" thick top above the cabinet. I just got some very nice hand forged holdfasts that are a bit longer. They'll work fine as long as the stock is thick enough, but the longer shafts hit the cabinet with thin stock. In life, things happen you don't expect. Lee Valley will fix your problem for you, but otherwise you need to fix it yourself.

I might not have been so voluble (what is the equivalent word for typed text?) had it not been for the vino where I have recently found veritas.

[Dave Cav]

Interesting…my top started out at almost 4" and the Gramercy holdfasts did not work at all, out of the box. Counterboring the holes from the underside fixed the problem. Hole diameter might have something to do with it also…my holes were right at .750 and are probably a tad under now, as the top has shrunk. Sloppier holes might work better with a thicker top.

My top is around 4" and my Gramercys work fine, but I have square dog holes, and sometimes I do have to skew the holdfast a little so it's not at a right angle to the sides of the holes.

[Stanley Covington]

I might not have been so voluble (what is the equivalent word for typed text?) had it not been for the vino where I have recently found veritas.

A Latin scholar! Qui audet adipiscitur.

Stan