Bernardo hand planes?

[Mark Almeidus]

Has anyone heard of this brand?
Here is the link.
http://alatimilic.hr/shop/Blanja-rucna-set-Bernardo?keyword=blanja
I couldnt find any info on the internet. The price for this set is 120 euro.
On the site they also have stanley bailey planes and stanley blue chisels but the price is almost double then the price in europe, and i have read that this planes are not that good.
For example the stanley n4 smooth plane
http://alatimilic.hr/shop/stanley-rucni-alati/Blanja-rucna-Stanley-1-12-004
80 euros.

http://alatimilic.hr/shop/Dlijeto-Stolarsko-Set-5002-za-drvo-rucno-Stanley-0-16-129?keyword=dlijeto
30 euro for this blue chisels. is that a good price?
I realy want to buy the bernardo planes but the lack of information keeps me away for now.
What do you think?

[Jim Matthews]

Those look like the Anant line, rebranded.

These can be very good, once properly tuned.
From the factory, the Anant line can be coarse, with
poor mating between steel surfaces.

I would hazard a guess that the Blue Handle chisels
are out of the same factory producing "Marples" and "Faithful" brand chisels.

Those can be very good steel, for the money.

The Narex line is popular on this side of the Atlantic.
I would consider anything with that stamp worth the money.

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[Mark Almeidus]

From closer look i dont think they are from Anant.
But i think for that price, it should be ok, considered im an amateur.But i dont know :). still is a blind purchase at some point. But taking the other options, to buy from internet would be even worse because of shipping, provision, customs and VAT thats not an option at all.

[Dimitrije Stamenkovic]

Jim might be right: those look like Anant planes.

Here's ebay.de with a plane that looks exactly the same: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Hirnholzhobel-Handhobel-Hirn-Hirnholz-Hobel-Hobeln-Tischler-Schreiner-Wood-Holz-/380581845970?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item589c721bd2
And here's Amazon's Anant block plane: http://www.amazon.com/Anant-Low-Angle-Block-Plane/dp/B00125YUXK/ref=sr_1_2?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1403469189&sr=1-2
The smoother looks the same except for the lever cap, as does the spokeshave.

I wouldn't buy that nor the Stanley new plane: for 120 euro you can actually purchase the same set of vintage Stanley/Record planes. Low cost tools and vintage ones both require a lot of tuning, but buying vintage you also get much much better quality.
Try ebay.co.uk or some English antique dealers, that's where I bought my first metal planes and they were almost in working condition.
http://www.oldtools.co.uk/
http://www.theoldtoolshed.co.uk/

If you can wait and get the right occasion you can find an excellent plane for no more than 30-40 euro shipping included. Royal Mail shipping is actually cheap for small items.
For example look at this auction, it ended just an hour ago: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Record-No-04-smoothing-plane-needs-attention-/301213136241?ssPageName=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=k4AU2jOT%252F71o%252FJnAFZkG0U0gJ5Y%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
That is a very good plane.

[Mark Almeidus]

Thats why i thought its not anant planes, cz of the lever cap.
Damn, maybe its smarter not to rush at the end. Will see.
Thanks for the info and links.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Mark, you said "it should be ok, considered im an amateur" you've got it all backwards! it should be "I should get something ready to u-s-e because I'm an amateur"


With experience you will learn how to tune up old tools and such, but if buying new I highly recommend getting something good. my top pick would be a tuned up old stanley no. 4.


But what about the planes that you make? the better I get at making planes the more gravitate towards using shop made planes.

[Mark Almeidus]

Mark, you said "it should be ok, considered im an amateur" you've got it all backwards! it should be "I should get something ready to u-s-e because I'm an amateur"


With experience you will learn how to tune up old tools and such, but if buying new I highly recommend getting something good. my top pick would be a tuned up old stanley no. 4.


But what about the planes that you make? the better I get at making planes the more gravitate towards using shop made planes.

That should be a good point. :) If i could aford a hand plane when i started woodworking I'd never make my own planes, and it is a good experience and best way to learn. Because making a mortise plane, it has a lot of aspects and technigues in woodworking.
The other option (and probably the best) is to order 2 or 3 good guality blades with chip breakers and use them for my planes. With 2 blades (and 1in bad condition) is frustrating to change it from one to another.
Btw: i contacted the shop ibn Croatia to give me more info of the bernardo planes. He said its a firm in austria that is producing them.
http://www.bernardo.at/index.php?id=66&L=1&openuid=&katid=7&groupid=123&product_id=4838&variation_id=4838
But still not shure if they are just sellers or producers.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I understand, when I first started I had no money for planes and so I bought a few cheap blades. fast forward 3 years later I have 2 boxed full of blade that could easily cover the cost of a Premium plane. but you don't have to buy something so expensive, I forget where you are located, but the Jumma planes are in your price range and they are fantastic for the price (I have used and inspected them personally) a no. 5 should cover most of your needs, or a no. 4 if you'd like to do smaller work.
www.fine-tools.com/juuma-planes.html

[Matthew N. Masail]

BTW the Bernardo might be Ok, but the blades will probably be cheap and the tools will most likely need quite a bit of work.

[Mark Almeidus]

Interesting options, definitly will consider
Im from Macedonia so we dont have paypal here. If i want to buy from paypall there are some facebook sites, where u have to pay a guy provision depending on the price. The higher the price the higher the provision.
Next if the price is above 30 euros u pay boarder custom services %, and if the price is above 40 euros u pay 18% VAT. So u have the picture :).
I dont know how it is in other countries with VAT and custom services?

[Kees Heiden]

We have a Bernardo milling machine at work. They wax all poetically about it on their website, but it is just the standard Chinese piece of rubish.

Bernardo is an old firm, but nowadays they are just reselling cheap stuff at higher prices.

[Dimitrije Stamenkovic]

If you want to buy new tools you ALWAYS get what you pay for. Nobody is going to give you free stuff. You either pay couple hundred euros for good stuff, or you get cheap imported tools that are not worth having. Don't expect to find a decent plane under €100.

The other way is to buy old tools which is what I have been doing since I began woodworking. I am pretty sure you can find old blades at flea markets, I'm from southern Serbia and quality is actually good because it's generally old German or Russian steel. New blades, again, you have to pay at least 50 euro for Hock or Lie-Nielsen.

You have to restore the edge first, okay, but new or expert, you can't get away if you don't know sharpening. Get working on it and you'll eventually understand how to do it right.

[Halgeir Wold]

The problem for us europeans in buying US stuff, like LN and the likes, which BTW at least to me seemes overpriced to begin with, is international shipping costs, which have grown to horrendeous levels, Add to that, that most european countries charge VAT at a level of 20-25% on top....
Mark - not sure if Macedonia is in EU??? Anyway - Search Dieter Schmid - Fine Tools in Germany - they sell Juuma planes.....
Haven't found any others that sell Juuma.... ????

[Kees Heiden]

Juuma is one of the many brand names, but they are made in the Quangsheng factories in China. But this happens to be good quality Chinese stuff. I have one blockplane made by them, and it was usuable out of the box.

[Jim Matthews]

He said its a firm in austria that is producing them.
But still not shure if they are just sellers or producers.

The box may be made in Austria.
Like so many makers today, products can be rebranded with a label or alternate lever cap.

We had a similar substitution occur in the North American market when the Quansheng plant
"over produced" the Woodriver line of planes for a national woodworking chain.

Quality control of cast iron plane bodies requires lengthy cooling of the billet for the body, and careful machining.

I would suggest you scour the area for wooden body planes, as those are more likely
made to a high standard, and easy to repair.

There are too many horror stories concerning the current crop of low cost hand planes.

[Jim Matthews]

Juuma is one of the many brand names, but they are made in the Quangsheng factories in China. But this happens to be good quality Chinese stuff. I have one blockplane made by them, and it was usuable out of the box.

+1 on uneven quality control of Quangsheng products.
Some acceptable, many unusable...

[Dimitrije Stamenkovic]

Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Albania are not EU States while being completely surrounded by EU. Any purchase from any International sellers will cost us a lot more because of VAT and customs. I thought Mark was living in Croatia and so he could buy online, but it is not the case.

I've had the luck of living in Italy and so I've managed to gather a collection of tools from all over Europe, but there's no way I can keep shopping online in Serbia. Even professional tradesmen will consider the premium planes overpriced for the amount of work they do. Consider that in my region average monthly pay is about 300-400 euro, and that's how much a single LN #4 cost. A century ago a plane would have been priced "a several weeks' pay" but we don't live in the 1900s and nobody can afford that anymore.

I would stick with locally produced wooden planes, which are of good quality and pretty common. Every house in the country used to have at least a scrub plane and some woodworking tools.
Traditionally speaking, continental Europe has tools that differ from the English-American tradition. Our woodworkers used to have just a scrub, a long jointer and a smoother to do all the work, while Jack planes are rare if not totally absent. Panel saws too are uncommon while bow/frame saws are standard.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Juuma is one of the many brand names, but they are made in the Quangsheng factories in China. But this happens to be good quality Chinese stuff. I have one blockplane made by them, and it was usuable out of the box.


Actually the Factory Name is "Luban", Quangsheng is a brand name too, as well and Jumma and Woodriver, all the same factory. I know this because a friend of mine imports them under the Luban label, if you buy enough they will call it "angelina" if you want them too.


I have never opened one that needed more than just a little flattening of the sole, one block plane got the edge of the moving shoe lapped because it was a little rough, but that took like 20 seconds. I don't use the large ones, just the block planes and up to no. 5. a good point the make is that the blades, the T10 or the A2 are both very good steel.
Personally I prefer old Stanley\Record planes, the new planes are a little heavy IMO.

[Mark Almeidus]

A week ago i was at the village of my grand grand dad house. The house is untouched for 20 years, after he passed. He was woodworker, but mostly he was producing barels. All i remember from his tools was a bow saw hanging on the wall. His father was famous woodworker at that time (maybe 50 60 years ago or maybe more). I have searched the inside of the house, but there was no trace of hand tools. Then I went to the backyard, where they had small chicken farm, the place was like from the ww2, ruins everywhere. I was searching the place for 10 minutes hoping there will be something. And there it was a jointer plane. If it wasnt for the handle i would never noticed it, because everything was greyish and well camouflaged. So i said if there is one, there must be another. Spent another 10 minutes and found 2 more planes. But they are in uncoverable condition i think. But still no blades. i spoke with a brother of my grand dad, he said few years ago there were a lot of handplanes sitting in a barrel, but had no idea what happened to them. It was painfull to hear that.


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the small one at the right bottom was in my house for 20 years.
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From what Dimitrije said, i also noticed there are no jack planes (or the size of a jack) from the places i visited, probably they didnt have a smoothing planes either, there are planes with the size of a smoother, but their mouthopening is realy big. When i showed my plane to some woodworkers who caught a bit of the hand tool era, they all say, u need a wider mouth, otherwise the shavings wont be able to go through. Probably lack of knoledge.Back then there was no internet, and maybe it was harder to get to information, i dont know :).

Anyway people here i opened, and they are always willing to share tools and information. And no one asked for money for the tools they gave me. When i ask older woodworkers about handtools, they are with smile on their faces, remembering the old days, and couldnt pass with out telling a stroy of the adventures they'v been. Its like the machine era took the soul out of it.
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This is a portrait of a local woodworker, who was runing the business from the sixties. He gave me the E.C.E plane and the jointer second from top. He got paralized 4 years ago and cant work anymore, and says its painfull not to be able. Now his son is running the business but with machines. While we were making the chess table with his son he would come twice a day and walk arround the tools, telling me back then how everything was in order, cleaning the tools everyday, and now its everything in dust. his son would put his head down ashamed of it :).

I met some people from my village and other local places, which some of their family members were woodworkers, and some of them still are, invited me to visit them anytime. So in the next few days im planing to do so(hope will have luck with blades). And maybe document the places.
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The plane collection is getting bigger and bigger, but the blades are missing.

Dimitrije, if u have some tools for selling, mortise chisel or blades tell me. Im from Struga, southwest of Macedonia, and maybe we can manage to do a deal somehow.

[Dimitrije Stamenkovic]

Well maybe old timers didn't care much about smoothers as much as other planes. Afterall they didn't have chainsaws, bandsaws and planers, so the biggest the chips, the faster they would work. Generally jointers aren't THAT rough and probably they were acceptable to them. It makes me think that maniacally setting your smoother plane to make a glass-like surface is a very modern thing and that people didn't care back in the day, but don't take it as scientific truth of course.

You got a really nice collection of planes, I'm actually jealous. I've been living in Italy for 12 years now but I'm coming back to Serbia this summer.
Anyway you can't expect a wooden plane to keep its mouth in a perfect order for many years, it will keep getting wider and wider and it's rare to find an used plane with a tight mouth. But luckily it's wood and fixing it not very difficult, you just patch the mouth adding a thick inlay where the old mouth was. Look at these pictures:

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Most planes are salvageable: grey colour doesn't mean they're rubbish but you have to work harder on them. In a plane what's most important is that the sole is flat and that it allows the blade to do its work: it needs to be of the right hardness, the whole body of the plane must also be sound, and the blade must have a flat and hard surface to lay on. The wood in your old planes looks actually very damaged by woodworms, rot and cracking.
I am not sure if you can save them, but it's up to you if you want to try.

I am not actually a woodworker and nobody in my family is. We are farmers and woodworking is just a hobby I learned in Italy. I'm from Cekavica which is in southern Serbia, close to Leskovac. I don't know if it's worth for you coming here, I don't have lots of tools that I want to give away because I bought most of them for dear money from the Net and from antique dealers and spent some time restoring them, although I've had some luck too with friendly woodworkers/families of deceased woodworkers that gave them away.

[Mark Almeidus]

Yes, the wood is rot alot, and its pointless to try repair them, maybe the small one.
Iv added on all the planes i made, diferent soles, because i didnt managed to do it at first while i was mortising. The width of the mouth was decent, but I had to experience in first hand whats all that farsa about having tiny mouth .



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before and after

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Its not a problem at all, i thought u had lots of tools, and wont to get rid of some. But how things look i will be able to find what i need here.
BTW: if the road brings u here, or friends and family, we are planing to give the top floor this summer to tourist. A lot of people from Serbia come here. Also this offer is to all woodworkers here, but dont u dare coming without some handplanes :).