Sliding shaper

[Tyler Trowbridge]

I know there has been quite a bit of information lately on here about shapers but I still have questions.
Currently as a professional I have been building mostly entry doors and windows as well as some cabinet doors. I currently have been using a shop made coping sled on my scmi-t110. I'd like to upgrade my machine to something much more repeatable with a sliding table. I'm having a hard time deciding whether I want a machine with a intable slider or a side mounted tennoning table. I have only used the side mount style before and would like to get a view of the pluses and minuses of each style. How does the pressure of a power feeder effect the intable slider while it is in the locked position? I know martin makes a side mount tennoning table but what other companies do? I have been looking at the scmi t130 class as well.
Thanks for your responses.

[David Kumm]

SCMI will make both types. I've seen SAC both ways as well as EMA, Fortis, Unitronix,etc. I've not used a tenoning side table so others will need to chime in. I have both sliders and fixed and my take is if you are keeping two shapers, a fixed and slider are a good combo. Typically the fixed would be my bigger shaper but no real reason for that. If I had the room but only one shaper, the side tenoning table might be more handy. In my world it is more about not having to change the fence as I hate resetting when working. Absent a T27 programmable type shaper, I like separates for cope and stick. I have a T130 NPS cast iron slider and while i like it's ability to handle big cutters, an Aluminum T55 or Felder type slider is a little easier to set up and take down. Otherwise the better and easier the fence is to adjust, the better you will like the shaper. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

I've only used front mount sliders, they generally put the table a little closer to the cutter head than a side mount table. The side mounts rely on a stout tenoning plate to bridge the distance, I guess you could do smaller work with them but they seem more suited to larger scale work like passage/entry doors. I've looked at side mounts and talked with former users, seems you can simply pivot the fence, or pivot the main fence out of the way and use a tenoning fence, do your end grain work, then slide the carriage to the rear and replace the hood to do sticking. No need to remove the slider, but its generally geared towards larger cutter heads. I'm using a t-130 in table slider, not the x-roller type, the more simple sliding iron table, never interacts with a power feed. There is plenty of table between fence and cutter to set a feeder without pushing on the slider, the slider is pretty solid once locked anyway but I've never had to have wheels over it. Pretty much any industrial company you can name offers both styles as an option, and SCMI has the bolt on sliding carriage that can be added to many non sliding tables, maybe a step up from a coping sled but not a full blown slider. The t-130 has a fence/miter gauge and tenoning plate that each install separately but must both be removed for straight work with the fence, change over takes me maybe 5-7 minutes at this point, I could see a side mount making that set up quicker, but so could something like a countermax for small scale work like cabinet doors. No space where I am presently for an end mount "tenoning table" as they seem to be sold.

[Mike Heidrick]

I have a front slider with a tenoning table too. Laguna T1002S. Plenty of room on the steel before the slider for my feeder too.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/t1002s5.jpg

[Max Neu]

I saw there is a sliding shaper for sale on woodweb,it's a 1999 SCMI for $1500,not sure if your into used machines or not.It's not mine BTW,just passing along the info.

[Tyler Trowbridge]

Thanks for the info guys. Peter the changed over difference between side mount and in front is something that I have been wondering about. I have heard about the pivoting fences like you are talking about but I wonder how that would effect a fence that has seco style readouts? I'm not looking for a machine with motorized fences because I assumed it would not be able to pivot. I think I need to take a look at the t-130s in person. I had no idea scmi could make one with a side mount carriage. I have never seen a photo of one.I did see the machine on woodweb max but I think I would like to buy something heavier. Thank you though.

[joe milana]

You can do almost anything on almost any shaper. It's a question of how much effort needs to go into doing it. I have the almost identical setup as referenced to by Max. I cant think of anything I can do with the sliding table that I can't do easier with a copecrafter. As mentioned above, the side mount tennoner is better for larger workpieces, and slides out of the way when not in use. I guess it boils down to how much you are willing to invest in ease of setup & productivity.

[Joe Calhoon]

I have a lot of experience with sliding table shapers, The side mount Martin, the bolt on sliding table and the in table front mount slider on a Felder, SCM and Casadei shapers.

The in- table front mount – Biggest con is it is far from the shaft. This can be overcome somewhat by adding a stiff iron tenon plate to get in closer to the cutter. With this it is still hard to get good firm clamping close to the cutter without over clamping and distorting the table. Another con is the table is slightly raised from the cast table. With this and the gaps around the table it is usually not a perfect flat surface for other operations. You will usually not find this cluttered design on German made shapers. If you do not have a heavy outrigger for the sliding table this type will sag with long heavy work pieces. The feeder will not damage this type under normal use.

The pro of this table is it is quicker to set the cross fence and clamp than the other type tables. The normal shaper fence does not need to be removed and can be used as a stop if the tenon cutters fit inside. Normally the heavy-duty euro shapers will take a 250mm diameter cutter without removing the fence. If you add the tenon plate and need a tenon hood the setup time is as much as the others. This is my least favorite of the 3 types but we made it work. Fence needs to be checked for square going on.

The bolt on sliding table – Pro - It is easy to set up and can be adjusted close to the cutter. We set it parallel to the fence with spacer blocks and it keeps square pretty well. Good for cabinet door work and interior door copes. The con of this one is a little light for heavy and long work pieces. This table is heavy to move. We kept ours close at the same height as shaper table when using this a lot. We have the old cast Panhans table. No experience with the newer Italian bolt on tables.

Side mount tenon table – This is the best of the bunch for serious slot and tenon work. Probably overkill for coping cabinet doors but useful for specialty work like steep angles and raising small panels etc.
The pro is it will do everything well from small work to heavy long work. It is very repeatable; fence stays square even when removed. If not used as an extension table fence and clamp can be left on and moved or folded out of the way. The Martin is about a 5-minute set up to use this table. They have some clever fence lifting and resetting for the main fence as well as a bolt on repeatable stop.

The con to this fence is the price and the main fence will have to be removed even for small diameter cutters. On older Martin and Italian machines the fence swilled and could be used as a stop for smaller cutters. Not possible with the new electronic gear.

This type table will give you close to what a simple modern day euro tenoner can produce minus the saw and will run circles around old iron US and UK tenoners.

In the end any sliding table on a shaper is a compromise. That is what drove us to a dedicated tenoner. If you are doing a lot of slot and tenon work like in the pictures the side mount type will be the best.

Joe


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