Paneled Door Measurments

[Mark W Pugh]

OK, a couple of easy questions.

First off, I'm build ing some paneled doors and drawer fronts for a shop base cabinet project. The rail and stile bit set produces a panel slot that is 3/8" deep. So, my game plan was to cut the panel 1/4" smaller then the total inside slot measurement/s. This would leave an 1/8" gap all around for expansion. I'm using poplar.

1. Is 1/8 expansion gap enough?

2. The space balls I have are 1/4" in size, so I won't be using those. How do you keep the panel centered without using some type of material in the slot?

[scott vroom]

I'd make the expansion gap 3/16" and use Panel Buddies instead of Space Balls.

[Mark Bolton]

OK, a couple of easy questions.

First off, I'm build ing some paneled doors and drawer fronts for a shop base cabinet project. The rail and stile bit set produces a panel slot that is 3/8" deep. So, my game plan was to cut the panel 1/4" smaller then the total inside slot measurement/s. This would leave an 1/8" gap all around for expansion. I'm using poplar.

1. Is 1/8 expansion gap enough?

2. The space balls I have are 1/4" in size, so I won't be using those. How do you keep the panel centered without using some type of material in the slot?

Why not use the space balls? 1/8 per side for the space balls is just fine. We use bags and bag's of them.

[John A langley]

Mark number one panel bunnies are less expensive number two space balls contains some kind of oil or silicone can mess your finish up it's been years since I've used space ball they may have changed their formula since. I also find panel buddies are easier to handle

[Jamie Buxton]

The traditional approach (that is, pre spaceballs) is to make the panel very close to zero-clearance in the long-grain direction -- that is, the direction where there will be no expansion. In the cross-grain direction, you do make the panel with the necessary clearance. You assemble the door, center the panel, and put a small nail through the door frame into the panel in the middle. Or you can use a wood peg. The result is a panel that's centered in the door, and still can expand and contract across grain.

[Mark W Pugh]

I'd make the expansion gap 3/16" and use Panel Buddies instead of Space Balls.

Somewhere on-line I read Space Balls require 5/32 spacing, so another 1/16 off my panels would work. I have not been able to locate what spacing is required for the Panel Buddies. Does anyone have that info?

Thanks

[Erik Christensen]

easy to make you own in any size you need - get a tube of silicone free caulk - cut the end to get the bead size you want - squeeze out beads on wax paper, let it dry overnight, cut into 1/4" lengths and store in a ziploc bag

[Robert Payne]

I have been using foam backer rod (here's a link (http://www.lowes.com/pd_96255-1410-C21_0__?productId=3465630&Ntt=backer+rod&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dbacker%2Brod&facetInfo=) to some from the Blue BORG) that I cut into 1/4" wafers with a utility knife and place in the rail and stile grooves in lieu of space balls -- the foam weather stripping works perfectly and costs lots less than space balls. Never have had a door panel rattle.

[Andrew Hughes]

I also use the same technique as Jamie,I wasn't going to say anything cause I thought everyone would think I was crazy.
Never even heard of space balls until the internet.
I also use a spot of glue to keep floating panels centered.

[Mark Bolton]

Somewhere on-line I read Space Balls require 5/32 spacing, so another 1/16 off my panels would work. I have not been able to locate what spacing is required for the Panel Buddies. Does anyone have that info?

Thanks

An additional 1/16 won't hurt you but 1/4" is fine of your doors are of reasonable size. If you have very long stiles you may shave your panels but if they are normal size doors and drawer's I wouldn't even blink.

I can't pathom the cost of extruding your own from another material but I guess it your doing one or two and the cost of a cup of coffee or two is an issue have at it.

[Mark W Pugh]

An additional 1/16 won't hurt you but 1/4" is fine of your doors are of reasonable size. If you have very long stiles you may shave your panels but if they are normal size doors and drawer's I wouldn't even blink.

I can't pathom the cost of extruding your own from another material but I guess it your doing one or two and the cost of a cup of coffee or two is an issue have at it.

My concern is not having enough space to jam the Panel Buddies in and have them allow for movement. How much can they be compressed and still allow movement? With a 3/8" slot, will an 1/8 allow them to be used? Or, do I shave another 1/8 off the total dimension and give myself 3/16 in order to use them?

Thanks

Bottom line. You guys that use them, and the space balls, what is the minimum room you allow in the slot for them?

[Kevin Jenness]

We have used spaceballs, with 1/8" clearance. We did have an instance of bleeding into the finish once, and will probably switch to panel buddies. I don't believe either is perfectly and indefinitely elastic, so I like to treat them as assembly aids to center the panel and add a spot of glue or a pin for the long term.

[Mark Bolton]

Never had an issue with space balls. We run panels 1/4" under size but by the time they go in they are likely a shade over that (sanding profiles by hand).

The only time I concern myself with the fit is on a very tall door with no mid rail.

I simply can't see how long term elasticity could ever be an issue.. heck a wad of anything that would stick in there and not fall to the bottom of the door would do its job for many many years.

The problem with cutting the panels long and centering left to right is that while very minimaly, your panel profile will appear shorter on the long grain ends than on the edge. To me at least if your making a bunch if doors consistency is the key. All parts the same, all assembly then same. 4 more space balls per door isn't going to bankrupt me. Of course if I was making enough doors to afford an insertion machine I'd be looking at alternatives.

[Jamie Buxton]

..The problem with cutting the panels long and centering left to right is that while very minimaly, your panel profile will appear shorter on the long grain ends than on the edge...

Make the panel blank the size it would be for zero clearance in both directions. Run your profile around all four edges. Rip whatever clearance you want off the long-grain edges. Done.

[Kevin Jenness]

Mark. my point about elasticity is just that down the road a solid wood panel may not stay centered without some more permanent fixing. Whether it's chewing gum or neoprene, eventually the spacer is going to loose its rebound. I may not be around to see it, but I do hope that at my advanced age it outlasts me.

[Dan Neuhaus]

A friend of mine made all the doors and drawers for my last kitchen remodel. Soft maple shaker doors and I painted the doors with french gray Real Milk paint. On every single door there was a dark spot that showed up in the corners where the space balls were located. He's made hundreds of doors exactly the same and never had an issue before but I can say for certain with milk paint space balls will telegraph. I actually didn't mind the look since I was going for a rustic type look.

[Calvin Williams]

Yeah, I'm with Jamie and Andrew. Spot of glue and a pin to keep the panel centered and you're good to go. I have used space balls in the past but personally I kinda think they are a waste of time and money as I've never had problems with panels rattling. Cheers!!

[Mark Bolton]

Make the panel blank the size it would be for zero clearance in both directions. Run your profile around all four edges. Rip whatever clearance you want off the long-grain edges. Done.

Extra steps. But whatever works.

[Mark Bolton]

Mark. my point about elasticity is just that down the road a solid wood panel may not stay centered without some more permanent fixing. Whether it's chewing gum or neoprene, eventually the spacer is going to loose its rebound. I may not be around to see it, but I do hope that at my advanced age it outlasts me.

For sure..

I have no idea of the rubber formulation but I had a 39 dodge pickup with rubber that was still pliable and that's far more serious exposure than any space ball will ever see.

Good to keep in mind I guess just not something I worry much about.

[Lee Schierer]

OK, a couple of easy questions.

First off, I'm build ing some paneled doors and drawer fronts for a shop base cabinet project. The rail and stile bit set produces a panel slot that is 3/8" deep. So, my game plan was to cut the panel 1/4" smaller then the total inside slot measurement/s. This would leave an 1/8" gap all around for expansion. I'm using poplar.

1. Is 1/8 expansion gap enough?

2. The space balls I have are 1/4" in size, so I won't be using those. How do you keep the panel centered without using some type of material in the slot?

How wide are your panels going to be? If your panels are poplar, you can determine the seasonal wood movement for the width of the panel and allow adequate space. Off the top of my head I would say your 1/4" total clearance would be adequate. It is even easier if you know the current moisture content of the wood.

I find that the wood finish tends to hold the panel centered in the frame so brads, pegs or glue aren't needed to hold the panel in place. I would advise strongly that you finish both the inside and outside of the doors with your finish.

[Sam Murdoch]

The traditional approach (that is, pre spaceballs) is to make the panel very close to zero-clearance in the long-grain direction -- that is, the direction where there will be no expansion. In the cross-grain direction, you do make the panel with the necessary clearance. You assemble the door, center the panel, and put a small nail through the door frame into the panel in the middle. Or you can use a wood peg. The result is a panel that's centered in the door, and still can expand and contract across grain.

Easy and works great. No glue needed and I don't depend on the finish to keep the panel centered as I typically finish doors after assembly. The panel stays centered this way throughout the process.