Black Locust Box?

[Roger Chandler]

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I have many smaller pieces of wood in my shop......they need to be processed into something useful. One of my neighbors had a couple of trees cut down about 2 years ago by a professional arborist........he said this tree was black locust. I am not sure because to me at least the grain in the wood looks more like black oak to me, but I am not an arborist, so ..........:rolleyes:

At any rate, this piece was hard.......very hard like locust can be, and I have seen some locust grain that favored oak a bit, so again, I am not sure..........maybe you know for sure? Notice the black staining in the wood [tannins?]

This box is 4.5 inches wide and 5" tall at the tip of the knob. I gave it features that are a little architectural with the bottom beads and the burn lines accent these and hide the lid opening. It had been a while since I had done a box, and wanted to get this piece of wood out of the way.......a box form seemed to be a suitable use for this piece...........comments welcome!

[Tim Leiter]

I have no idea what wood you have but the box looks excellent. I have never tried making a box but I have seen quite a few on the forums I peruse and want to try and make them someday. Great looking work!
Tim.

[Jim Hipp]

Very nice.
I hope that some day I can do something that looks this good.

[thomas prusak]

Nice looking box. Sure looks just like the black locust I've seen.

[Roger Chandler]

Nice looking box. Sure looks just like the black locust I've seen.

That is just the sort of input I was hoping for......maybe a few other can either confirm or not it is black locust....thanks Thomas!

[Dale Miner]

Roger,

That is an oak of some variety, most likey a white oak species. The medullary rays are very prominent as is typical in an oak and very seldom are seen in locust. Since the rays are fairly long, it makes me feel white oak is more probable than red oak.

[Roger Chandler]

Very nice.
I hope that some day I can do something that looks this good.

Very kind of you Jim...........thank you!

[Roger Chandler]

Roger,

That is an oak of some variety, most likey a white oak species. The medullary rays are very prominent as is typical in an oak and very seldom are seen in locust. Since the rays are fairly long, it makes me feel white oak is more probable than red oak.

Dale.......I know for sure this was not a white oak.......it was in my neighbors back yard across the street......been there many times when the tree was standing, and I am very familiar with most oaks........red, white, pin oak and chestnut oak........I have cut a bunch of these during my years when we cut firewood and some for turning..........we always took storm damaged trees or dead trees from the 276 acres of timber my friend has on his farm. He used to work in the logging business and his 1st cousin still owns a logging business and supplies logs to the lumbermill.

I favor the oak as well..........of some sort, because of the rays. Maybe there is a difference in an "Arborist" and a "tree service," :rolleyes: meaning that what was told to my physician friend across the street was not correct? :confused: Problem is this tree was cut in the cold weather when all the leave were off a couple years ago, and they had cleaned up the yard and no leaves were on the ground....

....just from memory, the leaves were an odd shaped leaf with a rounded area coming into the stem...........I don't remember for sure about the lobes on the leaves if any.......so I am not positive, but the grain sure looks like oak to me, although I have seen similar grain in black locust from others who posted pics in the past.......I know locust has a multi-leaf coming off a center stem.........somewhat similar to black walnut........

Anybody confused yet, besides me?! :D

[Robert Henrickson]

Definitely an oak of some sort. Identifying specific varieties of oaks can be a problem. My mother taught a tree-identification course at the University of KY for years. Apparently oaks are quite prone to hybridization, so a single oak tree can display traits of a couple different varieties of oaks. There is one such oak tree in my father's frontyard.

Dale's point about medullary rays is a very good diagnostic for oak of some sort; the overall color and open grain leads me to lean toward a red oak of some sort. It closely resembles red oaks I have turned, from wood from tress cut when they had leaves so that identification (red vs white, at least) was easier.

[Steve Doerr]

Roger, what a great box. I was surprised at the size, it's bigger than I would of thought. I really like the design and the accent with the burned rings. I did my first and only box last month when I was at Jimmy Clewes'. I have several "scrape" pieces of wood that I will be turning into boxes. I will add your design to my list of box designs.

As far as what type of wood--yes, it is wood that came from a tree:D Does look like some red oak that I turn but have no idea what locus looks like. So, I'll leave that discussion to others.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, what a great box. I was surprised at the size, it's bigger than I would of thought. I really like the design and the accent with the burned rings. I did my first and only box last month when I was at Jimmy Clewes'. I have several "scrape" pieces of wood that I will be turning into boxes. I will add your design to my list of box designs.

As far as what type of wood--yes, it is wood that came from a tree:D Does look like some red oak that I turn but have no idea what locus looks like. So, I'll leave that discussion to others.


Thanks Steve.........go get 'em!:)

[Roger Chandler]

Definitely an oak of some sort. Identifying specific varieties of oaks can be a problem. My mother taught a tree-identification course at the University of KY for years. Apparently oaks are quite prone to hybridization, so a single oak tree can display traits of a couple different varieties of oaks. There is one such oak tree in my father's frontyard.

Dale's point about medullary rays is a very good diagnostic for oak of some sort; the overall color and open grain leads me to lean toward a red oak of some sort. It closely resembles red oaks I have turned, from wood from tress cut when they had leaves so that identification (red vs white, at least) was easier.

Robert.........your point about hybridization is a good one..........my own instincts tell me oak [of some variety] but when the "arborist" says something else........well, maybe I will just call him a "tree trimmer" from now on! :D:rolleyes:

[Roger Chandler]

I have no idea what wood you have but the box looks excellent. I have never tried making a box but I have seen quite a few on the forums I peruse and want to try and make them someday. Great looking work!
Tim.

Tim.......sorry for the late response.........I thought I had answered all the comments, but please know that I appreciate your comments! Good luck on getting a few boxes under your belt......they can be both fun and a bit challenging to do, as there is a good bit of fitting to make everything work together as it should!

[Peter Fabricius]

Hi Roger;
Have you thought about it being ASH, this sometimes looks like Oak???
Peter F.

[Roger Chandler]

Hi Roger;
Have you thought about it being ASH, this sometimes looks like Oak???
Peter F.

I have never seen ash with medullary rays, Peter...........I have two ash trees right on the property line in my back yard.........I am pretty certain this is not ash.

[robert baccus]

Very nice box--the girls love em. Red and white oak both have prominent medullary rays--white oak being heavier in rays. The way to tell any white oak from red oak is to examine a clean cut view of the large spring wood pores. Red oaks all have open pores--you can blow smoke through a very long piece of it. White oak pores are full of"tyloses", a clear dried resin like material. Warning--this is only true for heartwood. Sold many thousands of BF of white oak for whisky barrels which had to be leakproof of course. Any species of white oak but heartwood only and scaled that way.

[Dale Miner]

Another option is to see if you can blow bubbles in a glass of water. Bubbles = red, no bubbles = white.

[Jim Underwood]

Wrong color for black locust. Black locust is a yellowish brown. Looks more like red oak to me. Honey locust is more this color. But my money is on the red oak.
The yellow and black patches are spalting. And it's typical of spalting I've seen in red oak.

All that aside it's a terrific looking box.

[Roger Chandler]

Wrong color for black locust. Black locust is a yellowish brown. Looks more like red oak to me. Honey locust is more this color. But my money is on the red oak.
The yellow and black patches are spalting. And it's typical of spalting I've seen in red oak.

All that aside it's a terrific looking box.


I think we have a consensus! Not a person here is certain it is black locust, but many are sure it is oak! I think that the "Arborist"........and I use the term lightly :rolleyes: was just plain wrong! I am now going to have to revisit this and sand off the pyro'd info on the bottom and put oak on it! Geez.......you would think an "Arborist" would know their trees, huh?! :mad:

Like I said.......as far as this fella goes..........from now on........I'll just refer to him as a "tree trimmer!" :p:D

[Jim Hipp]

A question. How much thicker is the bottom than the sides?

[Roger Chandler]

A question. How much thicker is the bottom than the sides?

Maybe 1/16th +....enough to sand again.

[Pat Pollin]

Wrong color for black locust. Black locust is a yellowish brown. Looks more like red oak to me. Honey locust is more this color. But my money is on the red oak.
The yellow and black patches are spalting. And it's typical of spalting I've seen in red oak.

All that aside it's a terrific looking box.
Jim is spot on about on the color notes. I am currently working some black locust for a workbench. i have a picture or two I will try to post. aside from color, black locust is DENSE-- I have 3, 5x5" legs glued up from black locust and a fourth leg red oak/ash. the oak leg feels featherweight in comparison.
also- nice job on the box!

[Pat Pollin]

291353black locust

[Roger Chandler]

291353black locust

Thanks for the pic of the black locust board, Pat! Interesting for sure..........as there are similarities to the grain structure on this board and oak. I still lean towards the oak on this box..........but it is easy to see how the confusion arises when one sees this! My wood blank looked a bit more like this when in the rough than it does after the turning and sanding. I am still not convinced it is black locust.........and now not convinced it is oak.....but I am leaning towards the oak.

Thanks for the input.........much appreciated! :)

[Mike Chechak]

My first reply so I hope I do well. There certainly are numerous varieties of oak but red oak and white oak are common to my area of PA. Many of my turnings have been boxes and pens in red and white oak but I've scroll sawed plenty of each. That looks like a piece of red oak. The way I can positively identify the difference between red and white oak is by smell. While working the wood red oak has an unpleasant musky smell while white oak reminds me of a pleasant smell, dill pickles. I like dill pickles. Also I've never seen medullary ray patterns in ash.

[William Bachtel]

I can''t believe you guys, calling this Ash, Locust, it is Oak. Period.

[Kevin Stanbary]

Looks like oak to me... black locust will fluoresce under black-light and appear a bright yellowish green; might be a way to rule it out. My entry into the SMC turning contest in 2010 shows the effect:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149242-SMC-2010-Fall-Turning-Contest-Spindle

[Roger Chandler]

Looks like oak to me... black locust will fluoresce under black-light and appear a bright yellowish green; might be a way to rule it out. My entry into the SMC turning contest in 2010 shows the effect:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?149242-SMC-2010-Fall-Turning-Contest-Spindle

Thanks Kevin.......especially the link I could look at with the pic under the black light. I have pretty much settled in my mind it is indeed oak......I even re-sanded the base and burned oak into it for the species............the medullary rays sealed the deal for me.

[William Bachtel]

Here it ihttp://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/s. This site has lots of woods. Please view Red Oak.

[Dan Forman]

The bark on black locust is quite thick and "ropey", three dimensional. Here are a couple of pics of black locust in the rough. Hope this helps.

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