Cermark blowing off

[Keith Colson]

I did some engraving on some very shiny stainless steel today. I am using a can of Cermark spray. It engraved really nice but I had some problems!

The air assist on the nozzle would blow the Cermark paint off the stainless about half way through the engrave. Is there a simple solution for this issue? I made sure a cleaned the stainless with alcohol before applying the paint. I found etching it before the paint was completely dry helped.(yes, I know its flammable but I was feeling a little cold today)

With my Universal laser can I disconnected the nozzle air assist when engraving without any damage to the nozzle optics?

Cheers
Keith

[Scott Shepherd]

Hi Keith, yes, you can. The rule is, nose cone on, air on. Nose cone off, air off. That applies to machines that have the air blowing through the lens. If you don't follow that, you'll be sorry, and fairly quickly.

[Keith Colson]

Thanks for the response but its not clear for me. Being a Universal, the laser tube is air cooled as far as I know so I must run at least 20 PSI at all times.

Are you saying I just remove the nose cone during engraving with Cermark? so the air is not focused.

And when you "you'll be sorry" what's the scenario that I should avoid?

Cheers
Keith

[Chris DeGerolamo]

Perhaps I am missing something, but why would you use the air assist while rastering with Cermark?

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks for the response but its not clear for me. Being a Universal, the laser tube is air cooled as far as I know so I must run at least 20 PSI at all times.

Are you saying I just remove the nose cone during engraving with Cermark? so the air is not focused.

And when you "you'll be sorry" what's the scenario that I should avoid?

Cheers
Keith

The tube is air cooled, meaning it's cooled by the air around it and the fans blowing on it. It has nothing to do with the "air assist" which blows through the nose cone.

Yes, remove the nose cone, turn the air off for that color in the job settings.

If you leave the nose cone on and the air off, it will suck debris up the nose cone, fuse to the lens and crack it.

If you leave the nose cone off and turn the air on, it'll do basically the same thing.

Simple rule to live by religiously, nose cone on, air on, nose cone off, air off. Follow that and you won't have any lenses cracked due to that issue.

[Tim Bateson]

If the Cermark is blowing off before it's engraved - Wayyyy to much air assist pressure
If the Cermark is blowing off after its engraved - then it's NOT really being engraved. There is a cover/film or something over the stainless. Chrome will act this way too.

[Kev Williams]

For raster engraving, air assist is not needed, ever.

For shiny SS, I can relate, I have a customer who makes knives, and he polishes the blades to such a mirror finish that Cermark will fall off by simply turning the blade upside down. My fix is to spray the surface with a little Windex or pretty much any other spray cleaner, then lightly wipe it nearly dry, leaving some visible streaks behind. The streaks stay stuck to the SS, and Cermark will stick to the streaks. The cleaners have no effect on the etching.

[Bill Stearns]

Hey All -
Mind if I piggy-back on this Cermark discussion? I have just tried engraving (after a light Cermark coating) 'couple of those (fairly new?) JDS chrome lighters. (#LL10, page 357). Text 'n image looked fine - but washed right off! I have metal-marked plenty of stainless 'n even chrome items before - so, kind' a surprised me! (I will be losing a $45 Father's Day sale 'cause of this.) I've got a 35W Epilog - I used 9 speed/100 power setting (my usual) - washed right off! Plan to phone JDS 'bout this - but, thought I'd ask you all 'bout those lighters? (some sort of coating on the chrome? Would that earlier suggested idea of spraying cleaner on the lighters first save the day?)

Bill

[Chris DeGerolamo]

Hey All -
Mind if I piggy-back on this Cermark discussion? I have just tried engraving (after a light Cermark coating) 'couple of those (fairly new?) JDS chrome lighters. (#LL10, page 357). Text 'n image looked fine - but washed right off! I have metal-marked plenty of stainless 'n even chrome items before - so, kind' a surprised me! (I will be losing a $45 Father's Day sale 'cause of this.) I've got a 35W Epilog - I used 9 speed/100 power setting (my usual) - washed right off! Plan to phone JDS 'bout this - but, thought I'd ask you all 'bout those lighters? (some sort of coating on the chrome? Would that earlier suggested idea of spraying cleaner on the lighters first save the day?)

Bill

Sounds like a coated metal: try engraving it bare i.e. no Cermark -> apply Cermark -> Laser again

[Kev Williams]

I have never had any luck with Cermark on chrome. I guess there's some chrome that Cermark will stay on but I haven't found it yet. Those chrome lighters are designed (I assume) for diamond etching. And even then I don't much care to etch chrome because more than half the time this is what happens--

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/bad-chrome.jpg

[Keith Colson]

Thanks for all the feedback. I decided to read the manual which I found on line. My VLS6.60 needs a minimum of 1.5 PSI to run with the air feed detect (can be turned off but I like this safety feature) My system defaults to 20PSI, as Tim said "way to much pressure".

For engraving I can leave the nozzle on and simply turn the air pressure down to 2 PSI for engraving and the turn it back up for cutting. This way I won't forget to do "something" with the nozzle and break something. I have not tried it yet but I am pretty sure that this won't blow the Cermark off, stops my paper cutting blowing all over the place anyway. If it does fail I will post up about it.

Cheers
Keith

[Doug Novic]

As a side note I have stopped taking orders for anything requiring Cermark on metals. So many different metals , coatings and problems. I do not want to me a metallurgist in addition to everything else. I have done a lot of chrome. Some comes out great, others wash off or maybe leave a slight outline. Okay to play with on my own time but not on my customer's time with "iffy" results. Can't charge for "iffy".

[Gary Hair]

Doug - stick with stainless steel and you really can't go wrong. Everything else is a crap shoot! Unless you have a fiber laser, I just got one, then you don't have to worry about metal ever again!

[Tim Bateson]

As a side note I have stopped taking orders for anything requiring Cermark on metals. So many different metals , coatings and problems. I do not want to me a metallurgist in addition to everything else. I have done a lot of chrome. Some comes out great, others wash off or maybe leave a slight outline. Okay to play with on my own time but not on my customer's time with "iffy" results. Can't charge for "iffy".

You quickly learn what will & will not & what might mark well. In the past 7 years, I am only on my 2nd can of Cermark (I don't recycle). My total profit from just those 2 cans is larger than any other material I buy, except maybe RowMark. BTW - The 1st can is not empty, but ran out of propellent. Someday I'll crack that can open and paint it on.

[Mike Null]

Tim

I have billed over $3000 in cermark work so far this year and have used less than a quarter of a 250 gram bottle. The bottle cost about $129. I do not recycle--just a waste of time.

I do only stainless steel.

[Scott Shepherd]

We did $2,500 worth of Cermarked product this week using 100 grams of Cermark. I wish I had a truck load of those jobs. I'd retire early.

[Kev Williams]

Same again-- SS jobs are at least 30% of my sales. My first job this morning is 3 SS heavy truck ID plates. Then I have about 8 various sized SS ski lift operator panels to get going on. And an SS radiator cover for an old Buick. And another engraving shop is dropping off some 2x24 SS nameplate strips for the locker rooms at the U of U (I love work from my competition!). That's just today's jobs!

I couldn't survive without Cermark. (well, I could, but I wouldn't eat so good!) ;)

[Tim Bateson]

I've said it before - Cermark on SS is like printing money. :cool: I have even gotten good at Cermark on Aluminum (not all, but enough). I pass on all Brass, Chrome, or anything that looks like it could have a protective coating. Some success on these metals, but not enough consistency for me to mess with.

[Bill Cunningham]

I've had no trouble with chrome 'not' made in China. I've done marking on Harley gas caps, and some other chrome stuff Never had a problem yet. I burn slow and hot..I.e 1200 DPI @ 8% speed 100% power and nothing has rubbed off yet. I tell customers if it's chinesium it may not stick or stay on, but the 'prepaid' price is the same. The choice to go ahead is theirs.

[Kev Williams]

Don't know that China has much to do with it- I've tried Chinese-chromed things, like dog tags, no go. But I've also tried to etch various car and motorcycle parts that I know were chrome plated right here in town, same story. I've had great luck with titanium, and also pure nickel, but nickel plated items I can't get to work...

always a crap shoot-

[Chuck Stone]

I wonder if a drop or two of dish soap would help it stick better?

[Dan Hintz]

I wonder if a drop or two of dish soap would help it stick better?

That's what I use... it works.

[Chuck Stone]

cool. Just enough to break the surface tension?

[Dan Hintz]

cool. Just enough to break the surface tension?

Yep... too much and you can get bubbles when you stir. I mix in a large baby food jar, and I may put in 2-3 drops... doesn't take much.