Advise for training and education on mold & mold remediation

[Mike Lassiter]

I am in the middle of a huge major repair job on a 16 x 80 singlewide mobile home we own, and have - mold. Not just some mold, but major mold. So far I have had the metal siding off about 30 feet completely across the rear and front of one end and the bottom part off the end that adjoins them replacing rotten flooring and rim joist and bottom plate and studs due to water leakage inside the walls from several sources. Screws holding the windows to the walls, screws holding the metal siding on, and from a cracked garden tub and leaking toilet. Most of the flooring covered by carpet which has hidden a lot of the problems until it's really just a big ole mess.

It looks like all the outside metal siding is going to have to be removed at least once (due to weather conditions and only me working on this) and a great deal of flooring replaced and all the sheetrock on the exterior walls torn out and removed. I have documented all of this with pictures. Anyway, there is "a mold problem" to put it mildly. I have done some reach and now KNOW I need to be wearing at least a N95 respirator and per most things I have reviewed should be in a full suit and full face respirator. This may sound crazy to you (it does me when I really think on it much) but I am in the middle of trying to start a mobile home repair business and can see this is going to be a big, big problem for many people that don't know they have a problem, much less to the magnitude it may become. So, I feel I need to get some training if possible, at least some type of education to better know what precautions I need to take for myself and to advise potential customers. Not exactly looking to or wanting to become a "mold remediator" but I think to some degree I will likely have to.

Any advice ?

[Chris Damm]

Removing mold is not a DIY project. Hire the Pros and then fix the cause!

[Rich Engelhardt]

Here you go....

http://www.epa.gov/mold/moldcourse/siteinstruction.html

It's free and gives you a decent place to start.


BTW - you have to have (IIRC) a Mold Inspector's license for what you plan on doing.
It's not as intense or extensive (or expensive) as Mold Remediation.

The EPA course linked above does not qualify you - you'll still have to go through some paid course for that.

As a side note - you may also need to be certified in lead and asbestos - check your state and local laws about that.

[Mike Lassiter]

Removing mold is not a DIY project. Hire the Pros and then fix the cause!

I have to do this. :mad:

Insurance denied claim. No coverage. Water leaks inside walls rotting flooring, studs. Sheetrock covered in mold on the inside of the wall. NOT EVERY inch, but enough sadly.

The flooring has been replaced so far on the back side of the mobile home about 30 feet that also required replacing the rim joist and bottom plate of the wall and cutting rotten studs off and replacing with new wood. This is NOT a DIY project. I have removed the metal siding down about 30 feet on the front and back side of the house and replaced the rotten wood lathe that the screws that hold the metal siding on screw into. I have replaced 28 feet of rotten rim joist and bottom plate of the wall and 30 feet of floor sheathing that all was under the outside wall and in 3 sheets there has been a inside partition wall also sitting on top of. Rear back corner flooring rotted and this sheet was 4 x 9 feet with outside walls on both sides of it.

291147291148291149291150291151291152291153291159

This is but a small sampling of what I have done in the last 3 months. The last picture is sheetrock removed from under master bathroom window. It is simply laid down in the floor as I removed it. This is what's been behind the walls in a few places. Fixing the leaks that caused the mold requires major work that is extremely aggravating due to many factors. My wife paid $33,000 for this mobile home in 1993 and my oldest daughter has lived in it for 10 years. Tub was cracked and leaked where you would never know until everything was a disaster to fix. I am going to have to remove all the metal siding to replace the wood lathe. The screws loosened or were never really holding much due to the wood getting split when it was built. Clothes Drier vent was letting water leak into the metal siding, which rotted 3 studs, door frame, part of a 2x6 doubled floor joist under the partition wall between the master bedroom and utility room. There are more surprises waiting. Looks like the rim joist under the kitchen window has partially rotted too - it is behind the next 15 foot of the bottom metal siding to be pulled off.

While I understand your comments - they offered me no comfort. We cannot junk this, and cannot PAY someone to do the repairs due to the nature of everything involved. So I am the guy that gets to do this - like it or not. I inquired here because I figured someone likely had to do this type of work. I plan to try to work on mobile homes and based on the doublewide I spent almost 2 years moving and fixing so my daughter could move out of this one, and this one (both 1993 models) there is a TON of work out here waiting for someone willing to pursue doing it.

Part of the problem is they put 1000's of staples in everything and screws holding the partition walls to the outside walls and floor are inside those walls. Difficult to cut them with a saw when you can't readily removed them and even then you still have to remove all the staples and such so you can install new material. I started out pulling the staples in the bottom plate into the floor sheathing, but of late have started running a carbide blade skilsaw down the floor sheathing to cut them. I'm learning more "tricks" as I go.

[Mike Lassiter]

Here you go....

http://www.epa.gov/mold/moldcourse/siteinstruction.html

It's free and gives you a decent place to start.


BTW - you have to have (IIRC) a Mold Inspector's license for what you plan on doing.
It's not as intense or extensive (or expensive) as Mold Remediation.

The EPA course linked above does not qualify you - you'll still have to go through some paid course for that.

As a side note - you may also need to be certified in lead and asbestos - check your state and local laws about that.

Thanks for the input Rich. Right now this is being done on a mobile home we own. I have been inside working removing the molded flooring and wall panels and so forth and outside replacing rotten framing and while I have read a little about mold, I did not wear any PPE even though I really knew I should. After working inside with the widows up and a fan blowing to help it be bearable to work (unit turned off due to open walls and floors - inside around 90) I have came home and just been drained of energy. Eyes irritated sometimes. Once it was a couple of days before I even felt like doing ANYTHING. Then I read more about mold and the spores being trapped behind sheetrock, and under carpet and so on and some of the issues mold can cause. Yesterday I work a N95 respirator and seemed to be able to tell a difference. I just purchased a full face respirator with a battery operated fan system on eBay for a steal ($207) that is like new. I will look like Darth Vader but I will be able to wear my glasses and stay protected and cooler to I understand.

Anyway, I will look into you link and continue my reach.

Thanks

[Brian Elfert]

The tubs, tub surrounds, and fixtures they put in mobile homes are just junk. Who would put a plastic tub in their stick house? Not many. I just got back recently from a week doing volunteer construction work at a Scout camp. I stayed in the the senior staff housing which is eight mobile homes installed around 1999. These are new enough to have wood siding and shingle roofs. The one I stayed in had evidence of a water leak around the rear door and the front door is sagging and has a gap at the top. The tub surround in the bathroom I used looked like it was started to come off the wall and leak. It might end up like the mobile home you are rebuilding. The tub is cheap plastic and I can't believe it hasn't cracked. If it was me I would gut the bathroom and put in a four piece acrylic/fiberglass tub unit that won't leak.

The camp has said they probably won't buy any more mobile homes. They will build cabins instead. They have volunteer construction crews who can build a better product for less money than a mobile home.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Mike,
That's just plain ugly...!!!

If you're planning on starting a business & it involves remodeling, as I mentioned above - you'll need to check into what the state and local laws are concerning licensing & certification.

The state of Ohio pretty much put a stake through the heart of my retirement brainchild.
I wanted to start a small "honey do" type of home repair to do small nuisance type jobs that are too small to call in a regular contractor.

Even a small time operation requires thousands of dollars of training and certification in - mold - lead - asbestos.
Plus the business liability insurance is out of sight. ( IIRC, ~ $4k a year).

In the end it was a no go anyhow.
Too many years of living it up = COPD & emphysema so bad I get winded just getting up out of a chair.

[Mike Lassiter]

This -
291181

turned into this
291182291183291184291186
and finally into this
291187 after 2 days work. 1 - 12 foot 2x6 and 1 sheet floor sheathing and some 6" insulation we added while we had the rim joist out.
This is the 93 Fleetwood doublewide across the road from the singlewide I am now working on. There seems to be no such thing as a easy job when you find water leakage. The lady we bought the doublewide from had a rug over the carpet by the sliding glass door. This is the dining room area and while it didn't exactly ring alarm bells due to where it was, she was honest enough to tell us the floor had "a place in it". This "project" lasted 2 years. We ( my wife and I ) moved the covered front porch a huge rear deck and a side deck so the mover could move the home.
Land was wife's inheritance (farm land) and we gave $18K for the house. $6K to move it. We worked hundreds of hours on stuff and honestly this home looked and really was in pretty good shape to be 20 years old. Still finishing some things up, but daughter, son-in law and their 4 kids have been in it since mid January. We just had a patio cover added to the back where the sliding glass door is for $1700 which puts us into this for about $51K in money.

Here I am trying to get the 8x15 covered front porch back attached to the house. Don't know what we would have done without the 4720 John Deere and loader. Mashed the front tires almost flat with the porch on forklift fork attachment. You just had to be there when we took this off the house and put it back on!

291188

Anyway, I have been attempting to "start" Mike's Mobile Home Repair since March. I have became a state licensed electrician and plumber and an EPA certified universal refrigeration technician. Been almost a month trying to find out about general liability insurance and it has been, well interesting to say the least! A one man show, one quote around $3700 a year, just got one this afternoon for $1,050. Workers Comp quoted at $4300 a year for a $21,800 payroll. Yea, it's been quite the journey these last 3 months.

[Brian Elfert]

A story I recall now. My grandparents had a mobile home on a lake. My parents took the family up there for a four day weekend. The floor was soft by the front door and my dad decided it needed to be fixed before my grandmother fell through. He didn't have any tools and ended up using a hammer and wood chisel to remove a 2x2 section of the floor. Needless to say he spent most of the weekend working on this. Why do mobile homes have so much problem with water intrusion?

[Brian Elfert]

Anyway, I have been attempting to "start" Mike's Mobile Home Repair since March. I have became a state licensed electrician and plumber and an EPA certified universal refrigeration technician. Been almost a month trying to find out about general liability

Did you already have electrical experience before you got your electrical license? In Minnesota I believe you have to work with a licensed electrician for a certain number of years before you can get your electrician's license. There is a fast track if you have an electrical engineering degree. You can just take the test.

[Mike Lassiter]

Yes, I have been doing this stuff for about 40 years. Got my start at the boys home I spent 5 years at. Helped do many plumbing and electric projects and jobs. Worked for someone several years ago. I had to get him to vouch for me when application was sent in to state. Failed electric exam by 1 question first time even thinking "I know what I'm doing." Didn't know about a lot of things that where on test even with it being open book. Things like motor load calculation and some old ball stuff that I will never see or work on. I understand purpose of questions is to make sure people are qualified and I did pass the second time.
It has been very good to have had the exposure to these things as a teenager and the willingness to undertake new things over the years. I have spent thousands on tools and equipment, but I have saved tens of thousands at least on all the work I have done and not had to hire it done. I am also ASE Master Truck Technician and Advanced Electronic Diesel Engine Diagnosis certification. 8 separate certifications in all for 14 years now. Have to retest every 5 years to prove you have kept up with technology.

[Mike Wilkins]

With all the publicity, lawsuits, and insurance regulations over the years, most states have made it mandatory for mold remediation firms to be licensened. Ugly stuff to deal with and a personal health hazard as well. You may need to check with your state license boards; they may require you to have a certain amount of liability insurance.
As for the insurance company denying your mold claim; the policy states that long-term damages are not covered. Just sudden/accidental damages.

[Mike Lassiter]

With all the publicity, lawsuits, and insurance regulations over the years, most states have made it mandatory for mold remediation firms to be licensened. Ugly stuff to deal with and a personal health hazard as well. You may need to check with your state license boards; they may require you to have a certain amount of liability insurance.
As for the insurance company denying your mold claim; the policy states that long-term damages are not covered. Just sudden/accidental damages.

insurance denied everything, not just mold. Yes, you are right simply stated - long term damage. The thing is the master bathtub was cracked unbeknown to anyone until the floor was rotten, the wall stud etc. because the water leaked against the outside wall area behind the home. No signs of leaking from the outside and nothing inside until it was a major problem. Vinyl underpinng around the home so what water leaking inside the wall eventually got into belly area and floor insulation that is also covered and cannot be seen. So just how would one have any idea this was happening? This is just one issue. The screws holding the metal siding on - have leaked water inside the exterior walls. The wood lathe stripping is cedar. Have you saw rotted cedar before? The house is 21 years old now. Advised the insurance inspector we didn't expect new carpet and such because it was worn out and needs replaced anyway. However we didn't know we would end up ripping all the sheetrock off the exterior walls and looks like possibly the inner walls too now to try to eliminate any potential mold growth that is unseen and no way of knowing it exists or doesn't without ripping the sheetrock out.
The insurance company changed the policy in DECEMBER when it renewed and specifically changed the part about "fungi and rot". Same insurance policy for 21 years - since it was brand new. They know these things happen and it takes TIME for the damage to become known. We didn't just allow the tub to leak and rot everything, or the screws to leak water inside the walls. I can see that some maybe would and think "we'll let insurance fix it" We called the insurance company February 11th to come inspect due to magnitude of problems. It took them 1 month to deny any coverage. If something like this happened to your home - NOT a "mobile home" and it took "long term" to discover there was a problem that you really had no way to see or know about, wouldn't you THINK that you insurance coverage would at least help? Do SOMETHING?? So basically we are paying $500 a year for disaster coverage like a tornado hits it, or tree falls on it, or it burns in a fire (and honestly sometimes when I am working on it I have wished that it would).

[Mike Lassiter]

spoke with the insurance company lady about this and what I have been doing on my "project" and expect to run into with others. In her mind she said that while I was removing rotten and molded flooring and so forth that I wouldn't be considered a mold remediator because I hadn't be or wouldn't be contacted specifically for the mold, but the results of the mold (like floor rotted out or around a window or door) so technically I would not be a remediator. GL insurance gets "more complicated" when you are conducting mold remediation due to the possibility that all of it may not be removed and the consequences of that.