Hearing Protection

[Tom Jones III]

My search on this forum turned up the last thread on hearing protection from 2003. I've been using $3 muffs from HD, they don't work too well and they break after a couple months so I am finally ready to get good protection.

* Does anyone have good recommendations for high quality, long lasting protection?
* What about a web site with good information about hearing protection?

From the 2003 thread, I have gleaned these web sites:
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/136427
http://www.soundproofing.org/sales/ear_muffs.htm (this one lists noise reduction numbers with relatively inexpensive muffs $30-$50)

Also the 2003 thread had plenty of suggestions for Bose muffs, but no links to them or explicit mentions of noise reduction numbers.

[Larry Norton]

Hey, Tom! I've had a set of Peltors and they work well. I think I paid $20-$25 for them.


Larry

[Frank Pellow]

I like the Peltor H7 ear muffs. They are the most comfortable sound elimination ear muffs that I have owned and they do a good job. I have 3 pairs of them and they cost about $40 (Cdn) a pair whcih works out to about $30 (US) a pair.

[Lee DeRaud]

Peltors are the way to go, just hit the gun/hunting department of any decent sporting goods store.

All you need are the $20-30 passive earmuffs. Note that the more-expensive electronic muffs don't work well in a shop environment because of the way they work: they amplify exterior sound to compensate for the noise reduction of the muffs, then turn off the amplifiers when a loud noise occurs. This is great for intermittent noises like gunshots, but useless for continuous noises like power tools: when the tool is running, they will either (1) amplify the noise, which is not what you want, or (2) shut off the amplifiers all the time, effectively converting them to passive muffs.

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Tom. A couple years ago I bought two pair of ear muffs at the Dallas WW show. They are the Pletor H10A for $20 each. They have a 30 db attenuation rating. 30 db is nothing to sneeze at, it is best I have run across. I use them when running my table saw, and the jointer. They do an excellent job. :)

I also bought a pair with an FM radio built in for mowing the lawn. My 19 hp Scag Tiger Cub is quite loud when running. As it turned out, the radio equipped ear muffs resonated with the sound of the mower deck. While reducing the mower noise the resonance added an obnoxious hum, so I just started using the H10A muffs, and they do a wonderful job. :cool:

The company I bought mine from is Airware America (http://www.airwareamerica.com/)

[lou sansone]

I have several peltors that run in the 40 to 60 $$ range. you have to spend a little money to get decent ones that are comfortable to wear for hours.


I would recommend the "radio" version. spending hours with these things on makes one go sort of crazy. Having some tunes to listen to while you are wearing HP is very nice.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Tom,
I have a pair of those Caldwells. They work ok, but I've had better, mostly Peltors. Whatever you get, make sure it's Db rating is over 25.

[Ray Bersch]

Tom
I'll go along with the Peltors - they are effective, inexpensive and easy to locate, most home centers and many lumber yards have them - I have mine hanging from my garage door opener (garage/shop) and they are within easy reach whenever I start a machine, including the shop vac. I would not be in the shop without them.

If you are interested in going to the top of the line, try Bose (Bose.com) - I have used their noise cancelling models in a general aviation aircraft (Cessna 210) for years. They have a new model out for general use - but Bose is always very expensive - about $300 for the general use models but that also allows hookup to music sources via a cable - so you can listen to your tunes while relaxing and reading your latest woodworking magazine.

I have also had good experience with David Clark aviation headsets(DavidClark.com). You can get mail order hearing protectors for about 30 bucks from them.

As a person who has experienced a significant hearing loss due to loud noise, I cannot stress enough the importance of using hearing protectors - fortunately on a web site you don't have to put up with asking someone to repeat themselves - but doing so in daily life is a real bummer - so start early - say what?

Ray

[Joe Mayo]

Have several sets of Peltors floating around. The ones with the radio get the most use in the shop. The can get a little uncomfortable if you are wearing eye protection as well. I wish Peltor would make a set with a radio and a face shield.

[Ray Bersch]

I wish Peltor would make a set with a radio and a face shield.

Joe,
Try David Clark - they have a "behind the head" model designed for those who wear hard hats. Again, about 30 bucks. When you go to their web site look for a "Hearing Protectors" section.

Ray

[Tom Jones III]

For hearing protection and eye protection, take a look at
http://www.peltor.se/index_safety.htm

I've found this web site with pretty low prices on peltor:
http://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/index.htm

[Don Baer]

Since I do i get various magazines with all kinds of info in them. In the June Issue of Occupational Health and Safety there are several articles regardiing hearing protection. The following link should tell you everything you need to know and then some.

http://www.stevenspublishing.com/Stevens/OHSPub.nsf/frame?open&redirect=http://www.stevenspublishing.com/stevens/OHSPub.Nsf/f4ba66bad665a1098625670c00725833/eff62ffb93a67c69862570130069e98c?OpenDocument

;)

[Bruce Volden]

I have a pair of these and they absolutely work great. Much cheaper than the Bose and also had a better review!!http://www.protechcommunications.com/headphones.html

[Chris Barton]

I have a set of the Bose NC headphones and have used them in my shop and they work great. I have also used them while mowing my yard (I could hear birds singing instead of the drone of the mower). However, more often than not the only thing I use in my shop is a set of Advent RF rebroadcasting headphones that allow me to connect the base station to any device and listen to it from up to about 300ft away. These are full coverage headphones and do a great job of protecting my hearing and allow me to listen to TV, radio, CD, ...


Chris

[Jim Becker]

I use two different things for hearing protection in the shop. Most of the time, I use this product (although mine are blue) from AO Safety. I find them the most comfortable for "me"...regular insert-type earplugs are a problem with my ears...they don't stay in. These always fit. My only complaint is that the retailers often fail to stock the replacement plugs. Not a big deal as the whole thing is relatively inexpensive, but it makes more sense to be able to just use new pads with the existing bands.

http://209.200.67.149/aosafety.com/prod_images/90537.jpg

When I want protection and the ability to hear what's on NPR, I just use my Bose QuietComfort II active headphones that I have primarily for travel. I use them when doing long sanding sessions, etc. I also use them when mowing...

http://www.bose.com/images/home_entertainment/products/p_qc2_m_na.jpg

If I found a need to use active headphones all the time in the shop, I'd pick a high-quality, but more durable product, such as those designed for shooters. The Bose product isn't really designed for "knocking around".

[Per Swenson]

I use the Peltor radio earmuffs.
Some times for extended periods I
put my Ipod ear phones inside.
I do this for instance if I am on the Woodmaster all day.
I also switch to the clear saftey glasses
when the lady pirates go ashore.

Per

[Lee DeRaud]

When I want protection and the ability to hear what's on NPR, I just use my Bose QuietComfort II active headphones that I have primarily for travel. I use them when doing long sanding sessions, etc. I also use them when mowing...
If I found a need to use active headphones all the time in the shop, I'd pick a high-quality, but more durable product, such as those designed for shooters.Completely different technology, Jim: noise suppression rather than the Bose noise cancellation. (See my other post.)
I tried a pair of the Bose headphones at a gun range. Worse than useless: they worked better turned off than turned on in that environment.

[Bill Lewis]

I like the Howard Leight Thunder29 ear muffs. They're the most comfortable and quietest. I've ever used. I havn't tried the Peltor muffs. After a quick web search I found them for $23-$29. The "29" represents the 29 dB suppression.

BTW, even with 29 dB, you probably aren't getting the required suppression. Our occupational hygenist has taken measurements on our tools. Mostly power/air hand tools, but a couple of stationary tools too. You'd be surprised what (according to our hygenist) requires DOUBLE hearing protection i.e. Both plugs and muffs. Think 1/2" corded drill for example.
So when running a planer, or a router, or tablesaw, even with 29 to 30 dB protection, you're probably still not covered. Additionally, without looking at the specs on some of the active cancellation muffs, I'd have to question if they are providing the necessary protection. I just wouldn't use them without checking. Likewise, audio headphones provide almost no protection and are not suited for use as hearing protection, even if you turn up the volume.

I've done a similar thing as Per. I've used earbuds under muffs to listen to a CD player while on the tractor. If Peltor radio muffs would accept an outside player source, I'd buy some of those. The wire from the earbuds do (slightly) break the seal which noticeably reduces the effectiveness of the muffs.

[Scott Loven]

I was using my index fingers in my ears until recently, now that I have a pair of ear muffs, I find it much easier to operate a table saw!
Scott

[Timo Christ]

The cancellation thing only works for low frequency, steady noise. Think lawn mower etc. I think it's useless for the high frequency scream of most WW machines.
Cancellation works by picking up the noise with a microphone, inverting the phase and playing it back with a little speaker inside the headpiece. The waves are then out of phase and cancel out.
Protect your ears!

[Lee DeRaud]

The cancellation thing only works for low frequency, steady noise. Think lawn mower etc. I think it's useless for the high frequency scream of most WW machines.
Cancellation works by picking up the noise with a microphone, inverting the phase and playing it back with a little speaker inside the headpiece. The waves are then out of phase and cancel out.Exactly. The frequency isn't the issue as much as the duration of the sound. The Bose headset has a decent amount of passive high-frequency attenuation just from its construction, but it simply can't handle transients.

[Jim Becker]

Completely different technology, Jim: noise suppression rather than the Bose noise cancellation. (See my other post.)
I tried a pair of the Bose headphones at a gun range. Worse than useless: they worked better turned off than turned on in that environment.

No disagreement and I'm aware of the difference, but the overall sound level is acceptable to me with them on and on...for the times when I choose to use them. That's not for when the jointer is screaming, just when there are elevated sound levels, such as when sanding. When I need "real" protection, I use the first item I showed in my post.

[Chris Padilla]

http://www.ontargetsportsonline.com/Shooting_Accs/Eye_Ear/Howard_Leight/HowardLeight.asp

I love On Target Sports...great place...dunno how they have such low prices but they do and the customer service is excellent if the website is a bit cumbersome. I have 3 pairs of the Howard Leight "Leightning 31" ear protectors. I can wear them all day long and often forget I have them on.

Edit: Oh, BTW, pick up some UVEX safety glasses while you are at it...these things rock...so comfortable...and they do not fog up!

[Chris Padilla]

I use the Peltor radio earmuffs.
Some times for extended periods I
put my Ipod ear phones inside.
I do this for instance if I am on the Woodmaster all day.
I also switch to the clear saftey glasses
when the lady pirates go ashore.

Per

Hey Per, couldn't resist.... :D

[Lee DeRaud]

No disagreement and I'm aware of the difference, but the overall sound level is acceptable to me with them on and on...for the times when I choose to use them. That's not for when the jointer is screaming, just when there are elevated sound levels, such as when sanding. When I need "real" protection, I use the first item I showed in my post.Yup, and I think you misunderstood me somewhat: within the sound-power limits it can handle, a continuous noise like a power tool is exactly what the Bose is intended for. But something intended for impulse noise (like gunshots) won't help in that situation (or vice versa) beyond the passive suppression the muffs themselves provide.

[Jim Becker]

Yup, and I think you misunderstood me somewhat: within the sound-power limits it can handle, a continuous noise like a power tool is exactly what the Bose is intended for. But something intended for impulse noise (like gunshots) won't help in that situation (or vice versa) beyond the passive suppression the muffs themselves provide.

Ah!! Thanks. Makes perfect sense. Being a non-gun owner, I wouldn't have thought of that specifically. Good point.

[Lee DeRaud]

Being a non-gun owner...How many non-guns do you own and do you have a cheap on-line source for them? :D

[Jim Becker]

How many non-guns do you own and do you have a cheap on-line source for them?

I guess word order does make a slight difference... ;)

[Ray Bersch]

As I see it, the most important thing brought out in this thread is that everyone agrees that hearing protection is necessary and there is a sincere interest in addressing the problem - now, I don't know how Scott Loven was able to get any work done with his fingers in his ears - but that ain't my job, at least his ear drums were protected. I have confronted folks with their fingers in quite a different place and also not getting any work done - and that WAS my problem.

In the recent past (and in the near future) I have been project manager at multi-family residential construciton sites and it has been a major problem to get the subs to recognize the noise problem - for example, radios have to be blasted to overcome the scream of circular saws or jack hammers being operated without hearing protection - it is usual for me to arrive at a site and watch guys scrambling around to shut off the radio - sort of like kids, turn your back and they do what is wrong. So, if anyone has any suggestions as to how to enforce compliance with hearing protection concepts on a job site let me know. (For reasons other than noise, I have actually kicked a framing crew off the site in the middle of a job - they did not believe I would do it and then said they had a contract and I had violated the contract - they lost and returned within a few days and agreed to comply - but that is rather draconian and I would prefer an easire method.)

Also, please, everyone, keep in mind that noise cancelling headsets (by Bose or anyone else) are not for shooting.

Ray

[Larry Browning]

Personally I don't like the earmuff/headset type sound protection. They make my ears sweat! I much prefer ear plugs. They are lighter and much less bulky. Most of the time I forget I am even wearing them.
Plus, I can get them for free at work.

[Bill Lewis]

http://www.ontargetsportsonline.com/Shooting_Accs/Eye_Ear/Howard_Leight/HowardLeight.asp

I love On Target Sports...great place...dunno how they have such low prices but they do and the customer service is excellent if the website is a bit cumbersome. I have 3 pairs of the Howard Leight "Leightning 31" ear protectors. I can wear them all day long and often forget I have them on.

Edit: Oh, BTW, pick up some UVEX safety glasses while you are at it...these things rock...so comfortable...and they do not fog up!Even Harley Agrees (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21755)! He likes the UVEX Genesis the best. There are lots of UVEX Styles, and lenses, stay away from the coated lenses, they get scratched too easy.

[Chris Padilla]

Bill, you should use that avatar I did up for you in that other thread...yours is a bit blurry!

By "coated lenses", which ones do you mean? If you look at the website I listed:

http://www.ontargetsportsonline.com/Shooting_Accs/Eye_Ear/EyeProtection/Genesis.asp

He lists several variety of lenses.

[Ray Bersch]

Personally I don't like the earmuff/headset type sound protection. They make my ears sweat! I much prefer ear plugs. They are lighter and much less bulky. Most of the time I forget I am even wearing them.
Plus, I can get them for free at work.

And they are much better at blocking noise - so you win - never heard of anything being better AND free.

Ray

[Joe Mioux]

Whether its a 12 gauge or a router, those cheap spongy ear plugs are the ones I use. When I feel extravagant I buy the ones with the string.


joe

[Joseph O'Leary]

I was born deaf in one ear so hearing protection has always been a priority for me. Being in the mining industry we receive hearing conservation tests every year. After 20+ years of noise in mining operations and thousands of hours in small aircraft I have no appreciable loss in my good ear. I have always used Howard Leight MAX plugs, NRR 33, and Howard Leight Thunder29 muffs. When practical I wear both ( shooting, mowing the lawn, in the wood shop, chain saw use).

As for eye wear Uvex Genesis.

[Bill Lewis]

Bill, you should use that avatar I did up for you in that other thread...yours is a bit blurry!Hows it look now!? Actually, I need to retake the picture, it could use a lighter background, hmmm, maybe some photoshop expert could...


By "coated lenses", which ones do you mean? If you look at the website I listed:
http://www.ontargetsportsonline.com/Shooting_Accs/Eye_Ear/EyeProtection/Genesis.asp
He lists several variety of lenses.You're good if you stay away from anything with a "mirror". The website (ontarget) doesn't show any with mirrors. Harley (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21755) is wearing the Uvex Genesis Earth frames with expresso lens. The "Reflect 50" lens is basically a clear with a coating to reduce glare. It's the only coated lens I would use from Uvex. If you go the Uvex (http://http://www.uvex.com/products/products2.asp?id=24) site, you can "build" a pair of glasses to see what they look like.

[Frank Pellow]

BTW, even with 29 dB, you probably aren't getting the required suppression. Our occupational hygenist has taken measurements on our tools. Mostly power/air hand tools, but a couple of stationary tools too. You'd be surprised what (according to our hygenist) requires DOUBLE hearing protection i.e. Both plugs and muffs.
The median suppression of my Peltor H7s is also 29 decibels. That seems good to me but I was wondering how much better things could get. Bill, do you know how much additional decibel suppression one will get when using good plugs in addition to the headphones?

[Frank Pellow]

... I have actually kicked a framing crew off the site in the middle of a job - they did not believe I would do it and then said they had a contract and I had violated the contract - they lost and returned within a few days and agreed to comply Ray ...
Good for you Ray! I wish that more people in charge were that serious about safety!

Here is a bit of a digression about unsafe work habits: Two nights ago, three young men (late teens or early twentys) were shingling the roof of one of my neighbours when we got a serious nearby thunder storm. They continued to work on the roof. I walked over and convinced them to stop (by telling them a true stry of a relative who was killed by lightening on a roof).

[Bill Lewis]

The median suppression of my Peltor H7s is also 29 decibels. That seems good to me but I was wondering how much better things could get. Bill, do you know how much additional decibel suppression one will get when using good plugs in addition to the headphones?To tell you the truth Frank, no I don't. I too find that the 29 dB seems pretty adequate, but not according to our hygenist. Of course with hygenist's, regardless of the standards or the practicality, they'd have you do the maximum protection for every situation. If they had their way, I'd have to wear gloves to wash my hands :rolleyes: . Well, I guess it's not that bad, but they do tend to over prescribe.

I just looked at a package of Howard Leight Max foam earplugs, I don't se a dB rating on them, though the package says "NRR 33", and "SNR 34". BTW, these plugs are also very comfortable.

I doubt that muffs and plugs in combination are additive, as the dB scale is logarithmic. One thing for sure, together they really do knock down the noise.

[Boyd Gathwright]

.... So noted ;).

[Ken Garlock]

The definition of a decibel (one tenth of a bel) is the logarithm ratio of two different POWER levels. The decibel is used extensively in the electronics industry to express the characteristics of an amplifier or an attenuator.

In audio, the decibel is a measure of the power of an audio signal over a unit area. Zero DB is defined to be the threshold of hearing. Normal conversation is around 60 db, and the threshold of hearing pain is in 120 db and above.

So, what does it mean when an ear muff has a rating of 20db, or 30 db? First off, let us look at the mathematics of a db. The exact definition of a db is 10 times the logarithm(base 10) of the ratio of two power levels. It is important to understand that it is a measure of POWER levels, not voltage or current. (However, using ohms law, one can easily develop a formula for voltage and current levels expressed in dbs.)

Now, finally, what does a 30 db ear muff attenuation mean? Let us work backward from the basic formula, 10log(p2/p1). The 10 in the formula is a scaling factor to give whole numbers rather than having to deal with decimal fractions. Tossing out the 10, the log(p2/p1) becomes "3". The anti-log of 3 is 1000 (10**3=1000). Hence, if the manufacture is truthful, his ear muff reduces the power of the surrounding sound by a factor of 1000. Likewise, if the muff has a 20 db rating, the sound power is reduced by 100(10**2=100). Another thing to remember is that log of "2" is .3010. Multiplying by 10 and rounded we get "3". Hence when you see a value of 3 db you automatically know that it means the power level is doubled. Another nice thing about logarithms is that a minus sign means reduced/attenuated, as opposed to a plus sign meaning increased/amplified. Hence, if you had someone talking at 63 db, and you put on -3 db ear muffs, you would hear the person at 60 db. What we have done here is to use another characteristic of logarithms, multiplication by addition, and division by subtraction. In our example, the person doubled his voice level (+3db), the muff cut that level in half(-3db).

What does this mean to the woodworker? My shop has a noise level of around 95db with the cyclone and table saw running. By putting on the 30 db muffs, the noise entering my ears is not higher than normal conversation, 60+ db.

A nice thing that people often ignore is that the human ear can work in a wide range of sound power levels, 0 db to over 100 db. In real numbers, that means a working range of 1 to 10,000,000,000(10**10). :eek: :eek: Now, that is pretty flexible :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

Well said, Ken! I figured it would be you or me "learning" folks about the dB scale.

I would add that in electronics, when dealing with voltages and currents, it is 20*log (v2/v1) (or i2/i1 ). The 20 comes from 10*2 and the 2 comes from the fact that power is voltage squared over resistance (P = V^2/R) or current squared times resistance (P = i^2*R). When doing the anti-log, the exponent get pulled down and becomes a mulitplier. Further, a doubling of the current or voltage is a 6 dB gain or a halving is a -6 dB change.

Finally, the frequency of hearing for the human ear is 20 - 20,000 Hertz or cycles per second.

Physics for the day! :)

[Dave Anderson NH]

On the face of things a pair of earmuffs tested and found to provide 29dB might seem to be plenty if the highest rated tool in your shop is 115dB at the standard test distance of 6 feet. Unfortunately the test used is a standardized proceedure used in a test fixture and not on a live and moving human body. In reality things like wearing glasses, different sizes and shapes of faces, and even how you move your jaw and head, can all effect the fit. As an example, put on your muffs and then open and close you mouth several times with a loud piece of equipment running. Listen carefully and you will notice the difference in sound levels. Practically speaking, the effective NRR (noise reduction rating) of earmuffs is really in the neighborhood of 18-20 dB because of these problems. The most effective of all hearing protection devices are well fitting earplugs since they almost always delivery either their full tested rating or very close to it. In the final analysis it is better to wear something only partially effective as opposed to nothing at all. In my above example, when that 115dB signal was reduced it only went down 20 dB to 95db which is still a level dangerous to your hearing and will cause a loss over time.

[Chris Padilla]

I dunno about everyone else but my concentration with ear protection on when the table saw or j/p are screaming is significantly better than without. I absolutely HATE to turn the TS on without my earmuffs on. That in itself is a good reason to keep the noise down.

Dave, you have a good point about fitment but that is true with any safety or protection device we employ on our bodies. If it doesn't fit correctly, it may not protect you fully or at all and could even be a hindrance.

[Tom Jones III]

just out of curiosity, is there a way to test sound levels in the shop for a very small amount of money? A cursory glance on the internet had sound meters in the $300 to $3000 range.

[Ken Garlock]

just out of curiosity, is there a way to test sound levels in the shop for a very small amount of money? A cursory glance on the internet had sound meters in the $300 to $3000 range.

Tom, I bought an "el cheapo" audio level meter at Radio Shack. I am not sure but I think it was in teh 50-80 dollar area. It is probably correct within 10 db. :eek:

[Ken Garlock]

Well said, Ken! I figured it would be you or me "learning" folks about the dB scale. :)

Thank you Chris, I greatly value your opinions. :o

[Vaughn McMillan]

Tom, I bought an "el cheapo" audio level meter at Radio Shack. I am not sure but I think it was in teh 50-80 dollar area. It is probably correct within 10 db. :eek:
I've also got the Radio Shack audio meter (got it for tweaking my surround sound setup). The analog display model is $39.99 and the digital display version is $49.99. Can't vouch for its accuracy, but it does seem to read pretty consistently

All this discussion has prompted me to check out some of the sound levels in my shop. I think my belt sander is the loudest thing I'm running, but since I have the meter, I should check. It's also pointed out to me that I gotta get some hearing protection and use it consistently. I'm already missing some chunks of hearing as the result of exposure to loud music and construction equipment in years past. I'd be an idiot not to preserve what hearing is left.

- Vaughn