glue for paper back veneer

[mreza Salav]

Trying to use the wisdom of those more experienced: what glue do you recommend for paper back veneer?

A little bit background, the curved staris that are installed in our new house are supposed to have stain grade maple
stringers. The stairs to the basement have two curved walls that end about 3-4 steps before the end of the stair, so there
is about 2-3 feet of exposed stringer (outside) on both sides. The stringer has maple veneer (or I should say thin ply) on the inside
as well as the top of the stringer but the outside edge of the stringer is just plain rough plywood with the (wrong) assumption that the curved
walls extend all the way to the bottom of the stairs. So that last section of the stringer is not veneered on the outside and between
the back-and-forth with the stair company I am guessing I might have to veneer it myself. I could apply a 1/4" ply over it but then the edge
of the ply will show at the top of the stringer. Veneering the top is problematic as I'll have to veneer the whole stringer top all the way.

So I am guessing the easiest way would be to get a paper back veneer (stringer is about 1' or so high) and make a jig for clamping it.
For the jig I am thinking to attach a few boards (as ribs) to the back of a 1/4" ply and then put that ply over the veneer and clamp the "ribs"
from top and bottom of the stringer to press down the veneer.

The question is the glue to use.

does this sound like a good plan?

[Chris Padilla]

http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/faq-veneer-glue.htm

http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/glues.htm

All that said, epoxy might be your best bet so that you have time to clamp things up without worry.

[Shawn Pixley]

I dunno, for something like this where time and reversability would be useful, hide glue would be my choice. If it wasn't right, heat it up again and fix it. Something like the seems perfect for hammer veneering. This can't go into a vacuum bag or get a caul on it easily if I am understanding correctly.

[mreza Salav]

Chris, thanks. Shipping to Canada seems quite expensive though!
Shawn, the stairs are in place, so no vaccum bag. I think I can clamp it though from top/bottom of the stringer. Sorta like this one (but this one is from the main to second floor):

290543

[HANK METZ]

Sandbags can make good cauls, are flexible, and can conform to odd shapes. There is also the option of peel and stick veneer.

[Max Neu]

If you are not comfortable hammer veneering, you might want to look into Heat Lock glue.

[Peter Quinn]

I'm thinking this is a perfect place for using the iron on method using tite bond II. No clamps, no jigs, flush trim with a chisel once set. You could use special glue, not sure I'd bother. Or make a negative form and blow up a balloon to make the clamping pressure, sort of hook around the other side of the stair with a harness, put in a truck inner tube our similar tough inflatable object, blow it up, should conform to the space, might have to get creative to find the right inflatable.

[jack forsberg]

i would order the phenolic back and use contact cement though i have use contact cement with the paper back too in width of 14".

[mreza Salav]

Peter, what is the Iron on method with Titebond II? let it dry a bit and the Iron it like a pre-glued edge banding?
Jack, any particular contact cement you recommend? spray ones or roll/bruch ones?

[jack forsberg]

Peter, what is the Iron on method with Titebond II? let it dry a bit and the Iron it like a pre-glued edge banding?
Jack, any particular contact cement you recommend? spray ones or roll/bruch ones?

latex with a roller mo. there is a peel and stick with the spray glue on the substrate is that the the one you asking about. that is another backer again there.

[Michael Kellough]

I'd go with Pressure sensitive adhesive backing. The 3M stuff works great.

Applying it to a vertical surface would actually be easier since gravity will help keep the sheet from sticking pre-maturely.

[Shawn Pixley]

Seeing the configuration changes my suggestion to the hot iron-on pva and cauls. I have used the PSA veneer when refacing some cabinets. It works fine but you'd waste a lot.

[Peter Kelly]

i would order the phenolic back and use contact cement though i have use contact cement with the paper back too in width of 14".I'd steer clear of contact cement when applying paper backed veneers as the smallest imperfections will telegraph through the face. Solvents from finishes can leech through the paper and cause delamination as well.

Phenolic backer with contact cement is safest.

[mreza Salav]

I found 24*96 preglued sheets. So I think that would be the easier route for me as the stringers are close to a foot (14" maybe?). So I should be able to iron it like an edgebanding, no?

[Peter Quinn]

Peter, what is the Iron on method with Titebond II? let it dry a bit and the Iron it like a pre-glued edge banding?
Jack, any particular contact cement you recommend? spray ones or roll/bruch ones?

You glue both sides of the joint, let it dry 45 minutes at least but not more than 48 hours IIR, then iron the veneer just like typical edge banding, it reactivates the thermoplastic glue, better than the regular edge banding because title bond II and III are both cross linking pVA's so it's a much more rigid bond. Type I works too and at a lower temp on the iron, but more subject to glue line creep. So you can glue up irregular curves that are real tough to clamp but where you want a tough bond. Tite bond III requires a higher temp than II so might be more difficult to get hot enough on a large surface area. I worked briefly in a veneer shop where we used a type II pva in a hot press, 7 minutes to a very permanent bond. If the area is cold you want to run a space heater and get the substrate as warm As possible so the iron doesn't have to work so hard.

[Mike Henderson]

Most people treat paper backed veneer just like Formica and use contact cement. Roll it with a J-roller, just like Formica. Paper backed veneer is intended for millwork applications.

Note that the wood part of that "veneer" is very, very thin. Just sand very lightly. Make sure your joints match - you can't sand one side down.

If you're veneering a round object, such as a column, glue everything except the last few inches on both ends. Then overlap the two ends and use a straightedge to cut through both pieces. The joint will then match. Apply contact cement to the last part and roll just like the rest of it.

Mike

[mreza Salav]

Will a pre-glued be a bad choice in this situation? I thought I can't find pre-glued at this size that's why I was considering paper back but my thinking is now that the pre-glued (if suitable) is easier in this application. Any thoughts on that?