Dovetails

[Jerry Bittner]

Have never tried making dovetail joints and would like to learn. I have a Craftsman "professional" jig but I'll be darned if I can figure it out. Obviously they did not put too much thought in the instructions for a neophyte like myself.

So, any information or sites that have good instruction?

And should I toss the Craftsman jig and get something easier to use and what are the easiest and best jigs on the market?

[Mike Tempel]

I have a C'man jig and have used it quite a bit and have made some strikingly good dovetails with it. I guess either I got lucky or the instructions made more sense to me than to you. It has been a good jig and even though I recently got the Leigh D4 jig the C'man will stay around as it still has its own place in my shop.

[Dale Thompson]

Have never tried making dovetail joints and would like to learn. I have a Craftsman "professional" jig but I'll be darned if I can figure it out. Obviously they did not put too much thought in the instructions for a neophyte like myself.

So, any information or sites that have good instruction? ?

Jerry,
Don't give up on the Craftsman Jig. I've got both the Craftsman and the PC. In my opinion, the Craftsman is easier to adjust than is the PC because of the number indexing on the former. The PC requires measurements which are sometimes very difficult to make. Whatever, I normally use the PC because it was more expensive. :confused: So much for the smarts of a cheesehead. :D

Dovetailing is always a crap shoot when it comes to getting the "perfect" dovetail. :eek: Be prepared to to use some "scrap" boards until you get that "knockout" fit. Don't get discouraged. :) Just follow the instructions step-by-step and remember that, with dovetails, just like crown molding, up is always down and down is always up. Front is back and back is front - or something like that. :confused: ;) Make sure to mark your joints as 1,2,3 or 4. Don't complain. Just suffer the learning curve like the rest of us have and before long you will be bragging about your four-cornered dovetails. They will be GREAT!! :cool: Incidentally, no profanity is allowed if you mess up and corner three aligns with corner four and corner one aligns with corner two. We've all done it unless we are prepared to lie on a public and highly respected WWing forum. :o ;) :)

Dale T.

[Cecil Arnold]

Dale's right. I've tried to use about every kind of DT jig around and currently have the D4. I still find that I talk to myself whenever I try DTs, even with tehD4's really good instruction book and video. I think that until you have made a few hundred you will always feel challenged. By the way Dale, did they ever get the fire out?

[Nick Mitchell]

Jerry, I suggest you do some by hand before you try and learn the jig. It'll let you know what you're dealing with.

[Dale Thompson]

By the way Dale, did they ever get the fire out?

Cecil,
Nope! :eek: Right now there is only one house left - and it isn't mine!! :( ;) :)

Dale T.

[Michael Pfau]

Jerry, the Leigh Jig is probably the best out there, in my opinion. It comes with a great book and vidio. It takes some practice on it to see how it works, but once you get it, it makes the best dovetails, through and half blind you can get. Its spendy, but I love mine. All drawers that I make are dovetailed anymore. You have to invest in several bits to fit any size you want to get to, but its worth it.

[Bill Fields]

Jerry:


I have an ancient Craftsman DT jig. I recently upgrade by applying adhesive-back sand paper to the grip-face surfaces.

Instructions--none. I just kept trying unti I got it semi-right.

Scap/practice/adjust/scrap---well you get it.

Keep in mind that DEPTH of cut is key.
You probably should get some really cheap bits to train on--I often ploughed into areas that were not good.

MDF is challengng but cheap as test material.

BILL FIELDS

[Tom Hintz]

Jerry,
While I agree that the Leigh D4 is the best (I have one), you already have the Craftsman (I had one first) and it will make decent dovetails when you figure out how to set it up. Of course, set up is the key to all dovetail jigs regardless of cost and bit depth with half-blind dovetails is equally critical regardless of who made the jig because that fit is strictly a router issue, not the jig.
I have a story at the link below with some of the basics that helped me get started. It's been one of the most popular articles on my site for over three years now!
Take a look, practice with all the scrap you can find (and make) and remember to be particular with fit. What looks great in pine may not fit at all in oak bedcause of the hardness difference. Pine squishes together pretty easy where oak will fight you all the way. Get the fit right and any type of wood will just click together.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/dovetails.html

[Cecil Arnold]

Cecil,
Nope! :eek: Right now there is only one house left - and it isn't mine!! :( ;) :)

Dale T.

Too bad you didn't get the press Chicago got, just look where you could be today.

[Ellen Benkin]

In the time you spend figuring out a jig and setting it up each time, you can cut all your dovetails by hand. It's time to invest in chisels and a good DT saw.

[Lee DeRaud]

In the time you spend figuring out a jig and setting it up each time, you can cut all your dovetails by hand. It's time to invest in chisels and a good DT saw.The Neanderthal Cave^WHaven is over that way ---->. :D

[Donnie Raines]

Nothing better then learning how to cut them by hand. It really does yeild a better appreciation for the method when you learn this process. Also, there are times when useing a jig won't cut it(really.... :cool: ).

[Rob Russell]

Jerry,

I suggest that you read this SMC Thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=21254).

Holler if you have questions.

Rob

[Keith Foster]

What would each of you recommend for a "first set" jig? And yes, I promise I'll do at least one by hand - someday. I've been looking at several sets at Rockler's. They also have the Incra 17" LS which fits nicely into my master plan (you know the plan - the one where I have no earthly idea why I would need that but it sure looks cool plan). :rolleyes:

[Rob Russell]

Keith,

Since you've read the thread, let me make a couple of comments.

First, there ain't nobody on this forum that likes power tools and machinery more than I do. I've got the shop full of stuff to prove it.
Second, I believe that electrons were made to make life easier for us. Planing and sawing a bunch of boards by hand for baseboard trim doesn't make sense to me. Maybe for a Newport Desk if that's your thing, but even that's not my bit.
Lastly, unless we're going into production mode, we're not going to have that many dovetails to do.

I decided that I'd learn to do handcut dovetails. I had a set of chisels and bought a good dovetail saw, a marking gauge, marking knife/scratch awl and a Tormek to sharpen the chisels with (I really detest sharpening). I followed the directions from a Fine Woodworking article step by step. The magazine was on the sawhorse or floor from one step to the next. The results turned out OK - far from perfect - but apparently pretty good for a first shot. The thing about doing handcut d/t's is that it adds a personal touch to your projects and I wanted to be able to do something a little less mechanical than Norm.

Plane, cut and mill all your stock with machines. Do the d/t's by hand and it's something that will add an extra special touch to your projects.

I'll be taking my second shot at handcuts in the next week or 2. Give it a shot - it takes a little patience but it's easier than you might think.

Rob

[Keith Foster]

Killjoy!

OK, anyone want to buy a never before used router...

Just kidding of course.
Rob - 100% agree with everything you've said. Having said that, let me also add that I hate carving. And cutting dovetails just looks way to much like carving for me. I have about 2 hours a week to devote to my "new" hobby, which means I'm just like Tim the "Tool Man" Taylor - give me a power cord and a hopped up router and I'm a happy camper.

I pray that there comes a day when I can relax and take it just a bit easier, but for now it's all about laying the power down in the most efficent manner possible. And the Incra is looking better and better...

[Steve Elias]

Given your last comments I'll limit my response to 'electrically powered dovetails'.

For ease of use, and with some obvious limitations (it only makes through dovetails), I find the Keller jig hard to beat. For $129, it is a simple process to cut through dovetails that fit great. Even if you don't like the fit resulting from your first run through, it should only take a single adjustment to perfect the fit. If you appreciate things that are not overengineered, this jig is for you. It took me 30 minutes to make a very nice, tightfitting dovetailed drawer with this jig the first time I used it, much to my (pleasant) surprise. With a few tweaks to my clamping system, I've cut drawer construction time down further.

For those times when I want a custom look, I cut the dovetails on my tablesaw. With a jig and a specially ground blade, the process is easy. I believe there have been one or two articles in Fine Woodworking about this method.

If you need to cut a wide variety of dovetail types and want more control over the spacing and don't want to use your tablesaw, then the Akeda and Leigh models are top of the heap in my opinion, with the Akeda being easier to use and Leigh D4 being larger and a bit more versatile.

Steve

[Jim Becker]

What would each of you recommend for a "first set" jig? And yes, I promise I'll do at least one by hand - someday. :) I've been looking at several sets at Rockler's. They also have the Incra 17" LS which fits nicely into my master plan (you know the plan - the one where I have no earthly idea why I would need that but it sure looks cool plan). :rolleyes:

'Depends on the kind of dovetails you want to cut! If you want a jig for just half-blinds, the basic PC jigs are what I would recommend. For just through dovetails (which you really can do by hand with just a little practice...) the Keller gets high marks. For a jig that does both...no real lower end options, IMHO. Go for the gusto; Akeda or Leigh are the leaders.

Incra is a whole 'nuther animal. While you "can" do dovetails with it, it's appeal is over a wide spectrum due to repeatabliity on the router table.

[Larry D. Wagner]

What would each of you recommend for a "first set" jig? And yes, I promise I'll do at least one by hand - someday. :) I've been looking at several sets at Rockler's. They also have the Incra 17" LS which fits nicely into my master plan (you know the plan - the one where I have no earthly idea why I would need that but it sure looks cool plan). :rolleyes:

:) Keith,

I think you would find the INCRA more than just a cool thing to have. You not only can make very accurate dovetails, but there are a myriad of other things you can do with it. There is a little learning curve, but in my opinion not as much as those encountered with some of the other jigs. It's a great unit!

Larry:) :) :)

[Keith Foster]

First off - sorry for the hijack Jerry. Lots of good info here and I want to say thanks to everyone for their input.

Not being the patient type, and having a certain style router table in mind, I decided that I'd just about "thunk" myself silly over the last few days and it was time to make a move. So I bought the Incra 17" LS (which is on sale at Rockler's). Price was less than many of the dovetail jigs and the Incra gives me a fence to boot. Also stays true to my total world domination plan... :cool:

[Vaughn McMillan]

Keith...I have the Rockler DT jig, and was able to do decent joints in about half an hour and only about 3 or 4 feet of 1 x 4 pine for practice. A few days after I bought it, I happened upon a used Incra Pro jig (an older model without the easy fine adjustment, but still very repeatable setups). Since then, I haven't even set up the Rockler DT jig. I haven't tried any of the Incra dovetails yet, but I've had a lot of other fun using the Incra in other ways on my TS. I plan to play with the Incra dovetails this weekend, now that I have my router table extension on the TS working. Based on my very preliminary experience with it, I don't think you'll regret owning the Incra.

- Vaughn

[Keith Foster]

Careful Vaughn - you guys keep telling me I'm on the right track and sooner or later I'm going to think I'm actually a woodworker!

[Tom Hintz]

Keith,
I have both the Leigh D4 and the INCRA LS Postioner and oddly enough use them both quite a bit. The Leigh is a bit faster for through dovetails and the INCRA makes half-blinds ridiculously easy. Of course, the INCRA does all sorts of neat things and being able to positoin the fence so accurately makes lots of jobs easy.
I have reviews of both with photos and more on their features at the lnk below, scroll down to the Router section.
As for hand cut dovetails, they are cool if that is what you want to do. If you don't WANT to cut them by hand it is actually legal not to.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/index.html

[Vaughn McMillan]

Careful Vaughn - you guys keep telling me I'm on the right track and sooner or later I'm going to think I'm actually a woodworker!
If you're anything like me, Keith, then all it takes is looking at a few of the pictures posted here on SMC to realize there's still quite a ways to go before getting the official Woodworker t-shirt, book tote, and 32-ounce sports bottle. ;)

I guess that's one of the great things about this place -- a wide range of experience, and boatloads of tolerance for those of us who are just starting out (or starting over, as is my case). And the pictures...they just serve as motivation to try more new stuff.

- Vaughn

[Sam Blasco]

I learned on a cheapie Craftsman that my father had stuffed on a shelf somewhere and tried to use once before giving up. Don't know if this is the same jig as the "Professional", but, honestly, it served me well for years as my main half blind drawer stock production machine. Simple and easy to set up. I gradgiated to hand cutting and the Incra table system much later on.

[Keith Foster]

Looks like there are many different ways to do the same thing. All good, and all with their place. I'm one of "those" people who would rather own an unused tool that is the best than a crummy tool that fails the test. In other words, I try to "stretch" my buying power by only purchasing a tool once. If I can get double duty out of it, then so much the better. For me - at this time - the Incra fit the bill (dovetail cutter and router table fence system). Only time will tell if it was the right choice, but it does appear to be a popular one! :)

Well, that and the sale price...

[Ellen Benkin]

Rob,
Keep working on the hand cut dovetails. You really do improve with practice and you are right, they add the "hand made" touch to your work.