Plane Blades What Is The Best kind of Steel?

[richard poitras]

I am going to be ordering a Veritas® Low-Angle Jack Plane from lee Valley as they have frees hipping going on right now but I have one question for the group? What blade should I get in regards to steel? They offer 3 kinds of steel A2, O1 or PM-V11® tool steel….I will be using this mainly on a shooting board.

Thanks Richard

[Dave Beauchesne]

Richard:

I have been smitten with a PMV-11 in my LV LA block plane.

I haven't seen too much ( if any ) negative about it on the Forum - worth the few extra bucks IMHO.

Dave B

[Winton Applegate]

One of each. That way you can do what I do . . .
conduct tests and resarch and sharpen them all to the 'inth degree. (and never actually do any actual woodworking) Saves on wood and glue , . . . oh all sorts of stuff.

. . . and . . . it's fun.
Let us know which you prefer and why. That way we can all argue about your test results too.

Win Win

[Evan Patton]

I'm smitten with the PMV11 stuff as well. I have a couple planes with Hock irons--they work well. I just bought a Veritas PMV11 chisel and the stuff is pretty amazing. I do not, however, have any plane blades made with it (yet).

[Jim Koepke]

You mention shooting for this. I know my A2 blade seems to get tiny chips before the blade dulls. I have not had this happen with my PM V11 on my spokeshave. It doesn't get the rough workout my shooting plane gets.

The O1 blades are the easiest to sharpen. They are also the fastest to get dull.

Gee, that wasn't a lot of help was it.

My vote would be for the PM V11 if you have the stones to hone it.

jtk

[Evan Patton]

My vote would be for the PM V11 if you have the stones to hone it.

jtk
Is that a double entendre?:D

In all seriousness V11 is hard. My translucent Arkansas wouldn't touch it.

[Derek Cohen]

I am going to be ordering a Veritas® Low-Angle Jack Plane from lee Valley as they have frees hipping going on right now but I have one question for the group? What blade should I get in regards to steel? They offer 3 kinds of steel A2, O1 or PM-V11® tool steel….I will be using this mainly on a shooting board.


Thanks Richard


I replied to you elsewhere as well.


When I read about someone stating that they prefer one steel over another I want to ask a few questions for perspective.


Firstly, I want to ask what type of wood they predominantly work with - is it hard, soft, abrasive? A major task of the steel of a plane blade is its ability to resist abrasion, and some woods are more or less abrasive than others.


The second question is what sharpening method they use. Do they hone on a full bevel, or do they prefer a micro bevel? We are discussing Western steels here, so the full bevel on a Japanese laminated blade is not part of the equation. Further, we are talking about LV blades for a BU plane, and I have been very outspoken about the strategy needed to hone a camber on these. See my sharpening section on my website for a full article. In brief, one does not hone camber on flat faces, only as a secondary bevel on a low primary bevel. In summary, this is all about reducing the amount of steel to hone. Less steel equals less effort. It levels the playing field.


The third question is about the media used in sharpening. Is the person using a slower oilstone, a faster waterstone, or a ceramic or diamond stone that will abrade anything? Those who complain that A2 is hard to sharpen are likely using ill-suited honing media and/or methods. A2 can get frighteningly sharp. For many years I used an A2 blade honed at 25 degrees in a LV LA Jack on my shooting board. This works extremely well. There was never any chipping, and I was very happy with the performance. When the PM-V11 steel came along - and I was one of those testing the steel - I recognised it was better than the A2, and switched to that.


The bottom line, when all variables are held constant, O1 will have the least life, A2 will last longer, and PM-V11 will last longest. Still, that is a simplistic answer. For example, all the steels will work equally well if they are used for a short period and then re-freshed. It is just that the more abrasion resistant steels can go longer before needing this. Catch the less abrasion resistant steels early and they are as good. Catch them past their use-by date, and they can cause tearout on facegrain or roughness on endgrain This window is wider for steels such as PM-V11.


There is a comparison of chisel steels used for paring in an article on my website. This is not exactly the same as planing, but close:


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/ChiselParing.html


Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

Steels are usually a trade off. The simplest steel,W1(water hardening,the original old steel of antiquity),will get the sharpest,but has the least durability. 01 is next up the ladder on durability,but will not get quite as sharp as W1. A2 is next. It is yet more durable in holding an edge,but will not get quite as sharp as 01.

I use A2 for making punch and die sets for my wife's jewelry business,because durability is more important than sharpness.

As for PM VII,I have a blade in my NX60 block plane,and like it a lot. But,I haven't used it enough to really tell about its durability. But it seems to be understood that it is the most durable edge. I have not yet conducted a sharpness test to see if it will get sharper than my W1 blades. But,it seemed to take a very sharp edge when I first got it.

Being a guitar maker,I usually do not do any where as much planing as a furniture maker. Mostly,I just trim struts and do other light planing. So,an evaluation based on hard use will have to be made in the future.

Conclusion: If I wanted to make a straight razor,W1 would be my first choice. I like it for pocket knives,too.

O1 is less risky about warping or cracking when hardening,and it changes dimensions less than W1 by a good bit.

I use A2 for my punch and die sets because of durability. And also because it moves hardly at all. My punches must fit their mating dies with a snug,sliding fit. So,.001" movement of the metal in hardening is not desirable at all.

I do not have the means to properly heat treat the PM metals,nor do I have the bars of it on hand. It is very expensive,too. MSC used to sell it,but did not list it in my last catalog. But,it was over $100.00 for a fairly small bar. I'm not sure machine shops are ready for it. So,LV is on the leading edge of technology by offering it in their tools.

[richard poitras]

Thanks everyone for your responses. It looks like the general consciences is that the PM-VII is the most liked on this forum and on one other forum as well.(Give or take a few votes) Well it’s time to place an order.

Thanks again

[bill tindall]

The PM V11 is a stainless steel tool steel. So one attribute is that it will not rust under many conditions and this feature alone is enough to justify its greater cost. Its composition does not suggest that it should be greatly more wear resistant than A2. Personally, I am skeptical of the test LV used to address it' s durability while planing.

The low angle LV jack is a dandy shooting board plane. I have an A2 blade in mine but I would likely spring for the PM V11 if I was buying again. But I am not convinced that this new steel is enough better at planing to replace the A2. Chisels are another story. It is much superior to A2 for chisel application where abrasive wear is largely irrelevant and toughness and hardness are most important.