Newbie looking for current reviews and help

[Brian Rodenz]

Hi all. I am completely new to laser engraving and cnc machines. I make toys and puzzles primarily on the scroll saw and am very interested in adding a personalized element to my items. I am a small family business and sell my things online. I have been looking for quite some time now at what members are using, recommending, and reviewing. Being that I am basically a one man shop, I have limited funds and cant afford to take out a big loan or take on a large debt for a fancy high dollar laser engraving.

I'm working with a few different types of wood, but only are interested in engraving, not any cutting, although it could be nice in the future.

I had read several reviews on Full Spectrum, but they are a year or more old. I am curious if anyone has purchased one recently and could tell me their experience?

I was looking around at kickstarter and found a funded project called mr beam. They are out of Germany and is a diy kill that looks very interesting. Since I am new to all of this, I am wondering if any of the seasoned members or anyone with any knowledge at all wouldn't mind checking them out and giving me their opinion on their project. Like I said above, I am new to this, so im curious how a diode vs a tube works, will it engrave ok for what I am looking to do with it? Their video and prices are appealing to me, but I want to call on any expert that would like to offer their two cents.

Thank you!

[Dan Hintz]

On FS... a dog doesn't change its spots, so I would stay as far away from them as possible. If you read comments from earlier posts, then you surely saw my thoughts, too.

You are one of those rare people who I feel would find those diode-based DIY kits ideal. There was a thread last week pointing to one for $150... very small table, but you could probably work around that without issue. It will be SLOW, even compared to a Chinese machine, but you also will be paying 10x less than a Chinese machine (just for starters). The difference between how the two work is irrelevant to what you're after, so I won't cloud the thread with details.

Also, have you considered shopping the laser work out? If your engraving is small, a local shop will probably net you a few $s/piece cost-wise, but save you the time, money, and hassle of investing in a laser system.

[Matt McCoy]

Hey Brian,

I'm familiar with your work on Etsy and think an inexpensive laser that fits your budget would work for you. I have a few Full Spectrum lasers, and if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, they'll work fine. You might also look into a small CNC like the Shapaoko 2. It's the second generation of an open source hardware project and has a lot of good support to get you going. You can both engrave and mill material with it and is probably more refined than a lot of the Kickstarter projects. Its distributor, Inventables, is working on free software that will operate within your browser and is very easy to use.

-Matt

[Brian Rodenz]

Thanks guys. Its good to know that a simple inexpensive setup would more than likely work for me. I'm leary of buying direct from China, since I never have before. I do understand the unrefined aspect of kickstarter projects. I guess there is some risk to buy something that is promised, but doesn't yet exist too. I like the idea of that shopoko machine, but I like the darker wood result from a laser. It helps the name or design stand out more.

Being that I am really new to all this and now taking an interest in diode lasers versus co2 tube lasers...can you tell me if I will still be able to get a deep enough cut into the wood that it will be noticeable, or will it be more of a surface darkening? The hardest wood that I use is maple, anything else will be much softer wood. I am really interested in the Mr beam on kickstarter. The price is attractive and the idea is something that I could get behind. I don't know a thing about programming or electronics, but with the kit, I don't need to worry.

If you do have a few minutes to take a look at the specs of the laser, it would great to know if it would produce a satisfactory result as well as the pluses and minuses of this versus a full spectrum class laser. Besides prices and the ability to cut wood.

Thank you!!

[Dan Hintz]

Being that I am really new to all this and now taking an interest in diode lasers versus co2 tube lasers...can you tell me if I will still be able to get a deep enough cut into the wood that it will be noticeable, or will it be more of a surface darkening? The hardest wood that I use is maple, anything else will be much softer wood. I am really interested in the Mr beam on kickstarter. The price is attractive and the idea is something that I could get behind. I don't know a thing about programming or electronics, but with the kit, I don't need to worry.

If you do have a few minutes to take a look at the specs of the laser, it would great to know if it would produce a satisfactory result as well as the pluses and minuses of this versus a full spectrum class laser. Besides prices and the ability to cut wood.

The diode laser kit will allow you to mark only... it simply does not have the power to do any deep engraving (for that you would need a "real" laser). But from the sound of it, you want to make a dark mark on light wood, anyway. If you want a "real" laser (Chinese model), go with Rabbit... I can't warn you away from FS enough, but it's your call.

[Brian R Cain]

I can't help wondering whether a rotary engraver wouldn't be the better option in this instance. It doesn't sound like you need high volume or anything that can do elaborate work. You'll get the engraving depth you need and a rotary engraver will cost a lot less than a laser without any of the grief you might get with a bottom of the market laser.

[Brian Rodenz]

would a rotary engraver be the same thing as a CNC router? Would it be similar to the Shapeoko 2 that Matt mentioned? How fine can the detail be with the rotary engraver?

Thanks!

[Brian R Cain]

Same basic idea but on a much smaller scale. You can get some nice software for them as well for fancy 3D work. Like anything, you'll get what you pay for and a robust machine will give far better results if you need to engrave metal, but the cheaper models should be fine for engraving anything you can cut on a scroll saw.

[Brian Rodenz]

An important piece would be to have the engraving be noticed and easy to read. I will start with childrens names, but would eventually move on to more. With the cnc router or rotary engraver, im concerned that the engraving will be hard to see...especially on dark wood such as walnut. But, I don't know. Im just used to seeing light wood and a dark engraving with a name or image. Maybe I don't need to worry as much about it.

[Brian R Cain]

The best thing is to talk with some of the suppliers, explain what you want and get to see some samples. You might find that the engraving stands out perfectly OK for your purposes.

[Brian Rodenz]

Good idea. I will work on that next. Thank you everyone for your help.

[Matt McCoy]

An important piece would be to have the engraving be noticed and easy to read. I will start with childrens names, but would eventually move on to more. With the cnc router or rotary engraver, im concerned that the engraving will be hard to see...especially on dark wood such as walnut. But, I don't know. Im just used to seeing light wood and a dark engraving with a name or image. Maybe I don't need to worry as much about it.

Brian: You can use a contrasting paint to roughly fill the engraved area and simply sand the surface to clean it up.

[Mike Null]

I don't think you'll find a rotary engraver to be satisfactory for wood.

[Brian Rodenz]

I had a chance to use a heck of a machine the other day. A Universal Laser 70W. Wow is that nice. Like I said, I havent used any other laser before, but boy is that an amazing machine. For what I'm doing I dialed the power back to 30% and got a great result. Now, $40K is completely out of my price range and I certainly dont need that kind of power. I've seen a few sites online that sell used lasers. I've seen a few threads on here about buy used, do any of you have any knowledge on buying used? Can you still get support from the manufacturer (epilog, universal, trotec), or does that go away after the first owner?...maybe that is a better question to ask the company themselves. Is it unreasonable to think that I could get a decent 40W US made laser for 5 - 8K?

[Robert Walters]

Brian,

Here's that $150 Laser that Dan mentioned (I had found it last week sometime).

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?218217-150-Laser

It does a 2" x 2" area, comes with software (downloadable).

I took a quick look at the software (all or most of which is open source), it's not half bad (for what it is), even comes with graphics software (inkscape) for creating your own graphics, and the tools to convert it to gcode for laser engraving.

It uses a laser diode (much like the Mr Beam kickstart project you mentioned).

It's complete (less a computer and a fan to blow smoke away from the laser/worksurface).
It you are technically/mechanically inclined (which most around here typically are), I'm sure you could increase the frame size and leadscrew lengths to accommodate what you need.

If you can't fabricate acrylic, you could use 1/4" russian plywood or even hardboard I suppose.
Then it would be a matter of finding longer leadscrews as needed.

Mabe you could keep the frame intact and make a new one reusing old parts as needed to create an "open bottom" frame so you can place the entire machine on what you intend to engrave.

It's not going to be fast, but it at least would get you started, let you get a feel for laser engraving, and for a very small investment.

Due to it's small size/price, you might even be able to get a couple of them to engrave multiple items.

Heh, a row of mini laser mionons at your disposal. LOL

[Robert Walters]

Can you still get support from the manufacturer (epilog, universal, trotec), or does that go away after the first owner?...maybe that is a better question to ask the company themselves. Is it unreasonable to think that I could get a decent 40W US made laser for 5 - 8K?


Universal will support the machine, no matter the ownership.
If you are looking to buy used, you can even provide them the serial number (before you buy) and they can lookup the service/maintenance they have on record for it. Though it it possible that a local rep did the service/parts too which ULS may not have records for.

The local rep for my area was kind enough to bring his cartridge to my place to test and confirm the cartridge was indeed the problem (I had suspected the controller might have been an issue).

I bought a ULS M-300 30W used, the tube (they call it a laser cartridge) just this month kicked the bucket after 12 years (per it's mfr date) and needs to be replaced. To exchange my 30W for a refurbed 30W cartridge (with a 1yr warranty) is $1200 shipped. To exchange my 30W for a 45W is $3850 shipped.

I have no idea what Epilog or Trotec's policies/practices are on used equipment.

$5-$8K for a used USA made laser, maybe.
$2-$5K for a china made, shipped from the USA, laser is doable.
But check replacement parts, updated software/firmware availability, technical support location (US or China).

If it requires a dongle... AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?212224-Lasercut-dongle-Problems&p=2268864#post2268864

[Dan Hintz]

$5-$8K for a used USA made laser, maybe.

This would be pricing for a very old and/or abused machine, something I would not recommend to beginners due to lack of modern OS support, potentially damaged/uncared-for components, etc.

[Brian Rodenz]

I'm still reading reviews and considering any and all options at this point. If we take full spectrum out as an option for now and look at rabbit or automation technologies as well as USA brands like universal, epilog , or trotec...what are some pros and cons. What major differences could I expect?

Thanks guys!

[Robert Walters]

I'm still reading reviews and considering any and all options at this point. If we take full spectrum out as an option for now and look at rabbit or automation technologies as well as USA brands like universal, epilog , or trotec...what are some pros and cons. What major differences could I expect?

Thanks guys!

It might do you some good if you just contact some of the local reps for each company and let them demo their warez to you. Then you get to see things first hand and get to ask direct questions.

[Brian Rodenz]

True, they would have good information. Pros and cons may be a little biased biased. I guess opinions here could biased as well, but hoping not as much either way.