Trotec sales rep and tradeshow pricing... Appreciate input

[John Warren]

So I've been working with my regional sales rep for the last few months.

I've been waiting to order until a trade show came around. I had been planning to drive to the show if necessary even though it was several hours away because of the good deals that are normally available. But he told me I could get the pricing without actually coming. They had a show this weekend, and I even talked to him on the phone on Friday to confirm I would be able to get the pricing without actually coming to the show. He said "absolutely, don't worry about it!" but that he wouldn't be able to email it to me until Monday (today) because his internet wasn't reliable there (not sure why you need a great connection to type/send an email, but that's a whole other issue).


So today, he sends me an email with the pricing info I had asked for (Models ranging from 30W Rayjet 50 to 80W Speedy 300). The prices are anywhere from $3-700 below the pricing he had offered me before.

An 80W Speedy 300 for example is discounted $300 over what he had offered me last month without the show.

I emailed him about it explaining that I was expecting a deeper discount, and he says that the reason it wasn't a very big discount is that he was already offering the best price he possibly could.

But there was no indication to me in our previous conversations that this was the case.

So either I have a really great sales rep who gave me amazing pricing right off the bat without any negotiations at all or something's not right.

I don't want to accuse the rep of anything - I'm honestly not experienced enough to know for sure - but because of that lack of experience combined with it not meeting my expectations, I wanted to check in with the folks here and see what your thoughts are on the situation.


Are sales reps normally able to offer pricing that close to tradeshow pricing?

[Ross Moshinsky]

80W Speedy 300 I believe trade show pricing was right around $25,000-27,000 as of about 9 months ago. I can't recall exactly what the pricing was but it was in that neighborhood.

There is no rule with sales reps. They may give their best price and say "that's the best I can do" or they may say it's their best price because they want the better commission. You're going to have to have to negotiate the deal so that you can live with it.

[Don Corbeil]

Go to the show, and bring your best negotiating skills. Show interest in other laser manufacturers at the show, and let them know that you want their system, but others are also of interest. Keep working it, and let them know you are ready to buy but you need a price that is much better than what they are offering you. At a show you can definitely do better than $700 off the non show price. I went through this last winter, but went to the show and got a much better price than anything that I was quoted before the show. As disagreeable as it is, it is a lot like buying a new car. It's that kind of sales environment.

[Scott Shepherd]

80W Speedy 300 I believe trade show pricing was right around $25,000-27,000 as of about 9 months ago. I can't recall exactly what the pricing was but it was in that neighborhood.

There is no rule with sales reps. They may give their best price and say "that's the best I can do" or they may say it's their best price because they want the better commission. You're going to have to have to negotiate the deal so that you can live with it.

I don't know what show that was, but we didn't pay that for ours 2 1/2 years ago with no show special. I've never seen prices for an 80W in the $27,000 range. They must have known you were kicking the tires.

[John Warren]

Unfortunately actually going to the show isn't an option, because it was this past weekend. He gave me his word ahead of time that he would give me the show price and I wasn't excited about driving 8 hours to get to Houston... Apparently it's a smaller show, so maybe that effects it, but I was still expecting a better price...



I don't know what show that was, but we didn't pay that for ours 2 1/2 years ago with no show special. I've never seen prices for an 80W in the $27,000 range. They must have known you were kicking the tires.

Interestingly enough... the pricing he gave me both before and now with the new "show pricing" is right there around $27k...

[Brian R Cain]

Prices for goods are dependent on all manner of things, not least how well the rep is doing. There was an interesting program on This American Life a while back that looked at the car sales industry. You can get it on their podcast if you want to listen to it. It explained that dealer discounts for cars are based on the meeting of targets for car that a manufacturer expects a dealer to sell in a month. Meet the target and you get a bonus that allows you to stay in business. Fail and it's hard work.

For individual reps, rather than the dealership, their monthly commission might be a percentage of the price of the cars they sold. but for the dealership and the manufacturer, it's all about number of units shifted. You might find that a rep gets a target of selling on average one car per day. He could be good at up-selling customers to high-end models to increase his commission that month, but if the company doesn't meet the manufacturer's target for that month and although he sold more high-end cars than anyone else and be doing well on his commission, if he didn't meet the number of units that went out the door, he could find himself out of a job.

It's all about monthly quotas in the car industry and what you can buy a car for gets reset at the turn of the month. Sales reps will be optimistic at the moment over how many cars they will sell in June so don't expect a bargain if you visit a car store today. Go there an hour before they close on 30 June and they'll sell you a car at less than it costs them if it enables them to meet their target for the month and get the bonus the company needs from the manufacturer.

It's up to you to work out whether similar practices take place in the laser sales industry. I can tell you for a fact that dealers will be asking manufacturers for trade show discounts and get them. Let's face it, there's pretty much the same work that goes in to making a 50W laser tube as a 25W one and never justifies doubling the cost. If your lucky they might offer a deal where the manufacturer offers 25W of power for free since it costs them nothing but might shift a few more systems.

From the dealer's point of view, a trade show is costing him money. He needs to shift so many machines just to be able to afford the cost of the show. Go there on the first day and he'll still be finding out what his competitors are letting machines go for. On the last day he'll know that well enough and be grateful for as many sales as he can get. It's common sense when you understand how the sales industry works.

i have to add a caveat to the above in that not all dealers are sharks. There are some who understand that a good reputation is worth it's weight in gold. A good salesman will know what he's selling inside out and answer any question you have right away, but if he's really good. he'll go on and prove hid answers by demonstration. A jerk who struggle to find where the on switch for the machine is isn't going to do you any favours any more than one who tries to convince you that a cheap Chinese machine with a crappy glass laser could possibly achieve the same standard of work that 40 years of investment in technology beyond where Cheap Chinese machines have got was a waste of money.

[Keith Outten]

John,

Fortunately we have a Trotec representative who belongs to The Creek. You can contact Kristina Jones (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?95476-Kristina-Jones) and hopefully she will be able to assist you in purchasing a laser engraver via the SawMill Creek Discount.

Prices are difficult to share here because of the wide range of options available that can move the cost of any machine in either direction +- thousands of dollars. I do know that over the last few years many of our Members have purchased Trotec Speedy 300 eighty watt machines like mine at lower prices than I paid since Trotec started offering our Members a discount.
.

[Mike Null]

I paid $25,000 for my 45 watt Trotec 8 years ago this week. As I recall a 60 was about 28000 and the 75 was over $30000. I know that I can buy the 80 watt machine today for less than that.

Even paying that much it's still the best equipment purchase I've ever made.

You've got to negotiate laser prices though.

[Scott Shepherd]

Also, before we jump the gun here, let's be clear that we don't know what he quoted. That could have included accessories, cutting tables, Atmos system, etc. Who knows? Without knowing that, it might be easy to say "Sounds high", but he might be including a lot of things we didn't buy.

[Keith Outten]

I believe the rotary attachment is in the neighborhood of $1,800.00 so it can affect a price quote big time.
.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I don't know what show that was, but we didn't pay that for ours 2 1/2 years ago with no show special. I've never seen prices for an 80W in the $27,000 range. They must have known you were kicking the tires.

But you won't post what you paid....

NMB almost 2 years ago it was I believe $23-25k quoted. Last fall it was $25-27k. I can't recall the price because it wasn't that important to me. 60W tube was right around $1000 less. I didn't negotiate the price. I didn't try to get the best deal. I spoke to a sales rep. These are the numbers he threw out as special show pricing. I believe all included the honeycomb table but not rotary, delivery, or any tax that may be applicable.

A few months ago I got a price quote on a Rayjet 300 80W and it was in the mid 20's. This was a price quote via a quick phone call. Not show pricing. I was just getting a feel for pricing as I was thinking about buying a used piece of equipment and wanted an idea of how much the Rayjet series cost.

[David Somers]

I am curious. Is there a comprehensive listing of trade shows for lasers? I wondered about that the other day and thought Hmmmm. They could fall into so many categories of shows. Woodworking. Signs. Awards. Graphics. Plastics. Does anyone have a feel for the better shows to focus on?

[Scott Shepherd]

But you won't post what you paid....

I don't have the paper work available to me. It's on an old computer that has been retired from service and I don't think I need to take the time to set it all back up to pull of a 3 year old quote to post it when it's not relative to anything.

That, as well as I think it's poor form to post prices you paid for lasers. It ends up creating a lot of issues with the dealers and companies. If I negotiate a good price for my laser and you don't, then you'll pick up the phone, call the dealer and say "How come Steve got his laser for $2,000 less than I did" and then it's a race to the bottom for them.

I wouldn't want people publishing the pricing I give to my customers, so I've prefer not to post transactions I consider private on a public forum. I don't talk to Trotec about pricing because I'm not in the market for a laser. The only information I have is random conversations at trade shows like "what's that going for these days" or someone that's looking at one asking me if I think the price is decent.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I don't have the paper work available to me. It's on an old computer that has been retired from service and I don't think I need to take the time to set it all back up to pull of a 3 year old quote to post it when it's not relative to anything.

That, as well as I think it's poor form to post prices you paid for lasers. It ends up creating a lot of issues with the dealers and companies. If I negotiate a good price for my laser and you don't, then you'll pick up the phone, call the dealer and say "How come Steve got his laser for $2,000 less than I did" and then it's a race to the bottom for them.

I wouldn't want people publishing the pricing I give to my customers, so I've prefer not to post transactions I consider private on a public forum. I don't talk to Trotec about pricing because I'm not in the market for a laser. The only information I have is random conversations at trade shows like "what's that going for these days" or someone that's looking at one asking me if I think the price is decent.

You're helping them, not yourself. Go ask the car industry. Now they've completely changed and people are happy buying cars instead of feeling dreadful. The process has actually improved things for everyone through relative transparency.

[Mike Null]

Steve

I agree with you about posting price paid. I posted mine since it was 8 years old and not relevant to today's prices except to show that they are less now than then.

Mine was without any accessories.

If I were buying one today I wouldn't post the price.

[Mark Ward]

We bought our Trotec Speedy 300 in February. We'd been to the local Trotec showroom and got shown the machine and explained what we were planning on doing etc, that way they knew we were serious.
We got a price for the Speedy 300 80w and the Atmos and then did a bit of negotiation. We had a price in our mind that we'd be pleased with and we got very close to that price. The Trotec guy gave us quite a reasonable price initially but slightly above what we were wanting to spend.
Some people may have got a better price that us for the same machine or we might have got the best price going, I don't know, however it was a price we felt pleased with and felt that we got a good deal out of it.

If you think the price you are being quoted is too high then say to them what price you had in mind as to what you were looking to spend and work from there.

[Scott Shepherd]

You're helping them, not yourself. Go ask the car industry. Now they've completely changed and people are happy buying cars instead of feeling dreadful. The process has actually improved things for everyone through relative transparency.

No, I'm helping myself. If I irritate the people that I may need when I need support, how's that going to impact me. I have a fairly simple rule. I don't mess with people that make my food or that I will need at some point in the future. If they gave me a great deal, and I posted that price and then they let all that noise flush through their system, when I need a new machine from them, what are the odds I'll get a great price ever again.

It takes a lot of work to be a good negotiator and it's part of running a business. If you can't negotiate a better deal, that's not my fault. At the same time, it's not my responsibility to negotiate a great price for your company either.

They are in business just like we are. I want the top money I can get for our products, so why should they be different? I'm amazed at how many people want top dollar for their products but think no one else deserves the right to ask top dollar for their products.

[Mark Senior]

It's a bizarre carry on.



(but if someone sends me the cash I'll gladly pay whatever they quote for one). :)

[John Warren]

Also, before we jump the gun here, let's be clear that we don't know what he quoted. That could have included accessories, cutting tables, Atmos system, etc. Who knows? Without knowing that, it might be easy to say "Sounds high", but he might be including a lot of things we didn't buy.

Yeah, I know it's somewhat taboo to talk about exact quote details, so I was fairly vague in my initial post.

The only option his quote included was air assist. It looks like the cutting table is another $500, and he didn't give me any "show pricing" for the Atmos systems, but based on previous quotes, including that would land me well above $30k.

---

Anyway, I'll talk to Kristina about it. She was actually the person I talked to most at a trade show I went to a couple months ago (wasn't ready to buy yet and only got pricing on the Rayjets at the time). Hopefully she can get this worked out for me.


---

Lol! Appreciate the offer Mark - hopefully we won't have to go that route...

[Scott Shepherd]

Let's also be clear, this is no different than Epilog or Universal. Somehow it seems to lose that when talking about pricing. People paid $3000 less for their Epilog than we did. Wasn't Epilogs fault, it was ours.

[Brian R Cain]

The best way to get a good deal is to show the dealers the quotes you've been offered by their competitors on like for like systems (or as close as it's possible to be with like for like) I've yet to find one who won't be prepared to re-think their quotes when they realise they might lose a sale to a competitor. The big three, ULS, Epilog and Trotec will be very competitive with each other to help their dealers close a sale, but it's a waste of time expecting them to do anything against any other manufacturer.

Also check through the quotes you get carefully and make sure any peripheral equipment is like for like. A quote that just says extraction and compressor included isn't good enough. You need to find out what the spec of these are and compare it to the laser requirements. If it comes to it, ask what the price of the laser cutter is without the peripherals because then you'll get a better idea who the "professional dealers" are and who are the sharks. It's a fact of life that most people only ever buy one laser, but as you can see from a lot of the equipment lists contributors have, quite a few have more than one machine. It's also a fact of life that a salesman knows that the easiest person to sell anything to is one he previously satisfied. The more professional salesman he is, the more likely he is to make sure you not only get a good deal but also get a machine that enables your business to grow without any grief and come back to him for another when your business expands. If he's any good, he'll look at the competitors' quotes and explain why you aren't being offered like for like and why you'd be a fool to expect a massive saving.

Nobody wants to get ripped off, but there are times when what appears to be a bargain turns out to be more expensive in the long-term. The biggest problem is that people enquire about machines but never spend enough time talking to the sales guy. He's got nothing else to do, and if he knows his stuff, he'll be happy to go over everything with you and when he knows you're serious about making a purchase, he'll take as many calls from you as it needs to help him close the deal. 99% of the enquiries he gets go nowhere. People ask how much a machine is and leave it at that. A reputable dealer needs to know what it's to be used for so he can let you know which model will be best for you and how much power and so on you will need. A charlatan will tell you the price of the cheapest machine with the lowest power and not give a damn if it meets his customers' expectations.

Finally, check out what the warranty includes. With the best will in the world, even the best dealer can't guarantee your machine won't break down during the warranty period. He'll be covered by the manufacturer for replacement parts, but in my view, It's a bit rich if he charges you for the labour of fitting them or expects a novice to do this himself. With a machine you've paid top dollar for, you're not going to expect it to break down a month after it was installed and cost you more money or can't work out how to use it properly. None of this is rocket science, but it has to be paid for somehow. A reputable dealer will know he's going to get a share of this and adjusts his prices to cope with giving good service, both during the warranty and after. I'm retired now, but when I was in the business, I treated my customers like friends. It was never a hardship to resolve any issues they were having and quite a few still call me up for advice which I'm happy to give for free, just as you all help each other out on this forum.