Gel stain over polycrylic?

[Mark Clemmens]

So I just delivered a table to a customer who had this dining table made as a surprise for his wife, and apparently she doesn't like the color he chose, which was a natural finish. The wood is red oak, and I used two coats of sealcoat shellac, followed by 3 coats of minwax semigloss polycrylic. The result is a natural red oak with a warm glow, it's actually very nice.

The customer is planning on sanding it totally down and staining it another color, my question is, is it possible to apply a gel stain right over the existing finish to alter the color, or will the oil in the finish react with the existing water based acrylic?

I've used glaze in this manner directly over other film finishex with success, however not with this combination. Any recommendations? Water based gel stain of some kind?

Mark

[John TenEyck]

Yes, I'm sure you could apply a glaze over the Polycrylic, either WB or OB. But the color won't be transparent, especially if you have to adjust the color very much. I would tint the finish instead with Transtint dye. You can add Transtint dye to pretty much any water based product. When you add it to a WB topcoat it will add color w/o becoming opaque. I often use it when I have to adjust the final color, even if I have already dyed and/or stained the piece. Take a look at this photo:

290415

The square at the top left corner is where I added some Transtint dye to my topcoat to adjust the color from what yellow background color so that it matched the piece standing behind.

Also, Polycrylic would not be my choice for a dining room table. It's just not very chemically resistant. GF's EnduroVar or Enduro Clear Poly would be much better choices, IMO.

And always make sure the wife approves the color choice beforehand !

John

[Mark Clemmens]

Yes, I'm sure you could apply a glaze over the Polycrylic, either WB or OB. But the color won't be transparent, especially if you have to adjust the color very much. I would tint the finish instead with Transtint dye. You can add Transtint dye to pretty much any water based product. When you add it to a WB topcoat it will add color w/o becoming opaque. I often use it when I have to adjust the final color, even if I have already dyed and/or stained the piece. Take a look at this photo:

290415

The square at the top left corner is where I added some Transtint dye to my topcoat to adjust the color from what yellow background color so that it matched the piece standing behind.

Also, Polycrylic would not be my choice for a dining room table. It's just not very chemically resistant. GF's EnduroVar or Enduro Clear Poly would be much better choices, IMO.

And always make sure the wife approves the color choice beforehand !

John


Thanks for the quick reply John. I believe the customer will be altering the color himself, and I'm not sure what his finishing "skill" level is, so I think adding dye to another coat of polycrylic might be his best option.

I personally think polycrylic is pretty durable, I use it on shop furniture, etc, and it seems to wear very well, even with coffee + food spills, etc. In my opinion, no finish will last forever, in the scheme of things most film finishes tend to have similar lifespans, and I don't really feel its necessary to extend the lifespan of a finish by a year or two, or even a few years more. Everything lives and dies, its all about the story it tells and in my opinion, as long as it doesn't look like total s**t right off the bat, its probably a success. Having said that, I will check out the finishes you recommended.

Mark

[Rich Engelhardt]

The square at the top left corner is where I added some Transtint dye to my topcoat to adjust the color from what yellow background color so that it matched the piece standing behind.
Wow!

As many years as I spent playing with and selling paints and finishes, it still amazes me sometimes at how dramatic a difference can be had with some very simple techniques.
I'm going to have to pick up some Transtint to play with.

[John TenEyck]

Rich, not to hijack this thread, but here's a larger view of what the actual piece (the top) looked like after the shellac + Transtint dye toner:

290441

and here's what it looked like after a single coat of EnduroVar + a different Transtint dye, followed by two more coats of straight EnduroVar:

290443

John

[Steve Schoene]

Yes, adding a dye toner can be an effective way of changing the finish color, but generally except for the lightest of tints, it is a process done best by skilled spray technique. To turn your reputatiion over to the abilities of a novice with only hand application capabilities is dangerous.