Taking on a decking project

[dawn villaescusa]

We bought our home on the Oregon coast five years ago, it was built in the 1980's and in pretty good shape. A couple of years ago we had the foundational part of the deck replaced, but replacing the decking wasn't in the budget. We're now looking at replacing the decking ourselves. Here's the deck from below (before the foundation work was done) and a snap of a portion of the deck from above.
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The deck is about 36' long, alot of odd angles but 9' at the widest. We plan to keep the existing rail and replace only the deck boards. We had originally looked at composite, but overall it doesn't appear to be a viable choice for our climate/conditions so plan to use wood. The rail L-brackets must be replaced, though!
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What's a good way to get those top screws out without damaging the rail post?

Finally, looking at wood options and deck screws (current boards are nailed in place). I need to drop in and visit our local ProBuild to see what they recommend, but wanted to run it by the forum to get a broader perspective. We want to use screws rather than nails - do we need to go with stainless steel screws, or will the tan-coated ones sold online or in the box stores suffice (are some brands better than others)? It looks like wood choices (within our budget) are cedar, redwood or pressure-treated. If we go with cedar, should we stain the boards before we put them in place? The underside of the deck is not very reachable (very high) once we have the boards down. I want to have a grey, aged-wood appearance rather than the red color it is now.

We plan to do only small sections at a time, mainly because it is so high off the ground - we want to do all of the work from above if possible. Obviously, I haven't done this before (small 8x10 deck on the ground in a drier climate doesn't really compare :o) Thanks for any tips!

dawn v

[Mac McQuinn]

"Fine Homebuilding" magazine has a article on decks in the current issue. There's some novel ideas in the article including the use of metal structuring, There might be something of interest in it for you.
Good luck,
Mac

[Ole Anderson]

Wow, what a view you lucky dog!

I hope those angle straps isn't all that is holding your railing on. As far as removing those screws, go to your local automotive supplier and ask for a o-ring pick. Use that to pick the paint out of the Phillips heads before trying to remove them. And be sure to use a new Phillips #2 bit. I have better luck removing screws like that using an impact driver with lots of down-force than just trying to use a screwdriver.

As far as screws, just make sure they are compatible with your deck choice, the new treated boards can be quite corrosive. Stainless is always best, but the newer coatings hold up remarkably well. Hot dip galvanized nails for treated wood seems the common recommendation, but they will eventually rust. Best to go with screws for sure. SS is softer so expect more cam out with your drill bit, they bend easier too. Torx drive are far superior to Phillips or square drive. I prefer the small pan head style to the bugle head, they cut into the top layer and sit flush without the mushrooming you can get with bugle head, it seems contrary to common sense, but that is how they work. I used trim head SS on my dock, but the #1 square drive tended to allow very little torque before the bit spun.

From a distance your deck looks in pretty good shape, but I see up close some major checking. Have you considered trying a floor sander and taking off a sixteenth? But that would be difficult unless your existing deck is screwed down.

As far as material, you should add Ipe to your list of choices if you want a wood that will never have to be replaced, although probably out of your budget, but with a house like that, you might want to rethink. I would stay away from cedar as it is very soft, is redwood much better in that regard? Redwood isn't a choice around the Midwest. Most composite boards require predrilling, and the material isn't the panacea once thought, I know as I have Trex and it gets power washed every year and still looks dirty. I did use the plastic coated composite on another deck and it looks and maintains much better.

[Jamie Buxton]

I love wood. I love wood too much to use it horizontally outside. It is just going to get beat up -- like your existing deck. What I've done to deal with exactly your situation is to cover the deck with slate tiles. Slate is quite durable against rain and sun and salt. It needs zero maintenance. It is also natural, so it looks better than plastic. It is more budget-friendly than stuff like ipe. And it can solve a big problem: removing and disposing of the existing deck boards.

I started by covering the existing deck with plywood to bridge over any damaged boards. I covered the plywood with three layers of roofing felt, adhered together with roofing cement. This layer protects the plywood from rain. On top of the felt, I screwed down backer board. Then I laid the slate with thin-set. My current deck is over twenty years old, and still looks great.

Just comparing one facet of the project -- material costs -- slate costs $2 per square foot or so, and ipe costs $10 per square foot. Plywood, backer board, and such add less than $2 per square foot.

[Mike Wilkins]

Nice view. Since you want the grey, aged look for your deck, redwood and treated will achieve that goal. For protection add a layer of clear deck finish; this will provide some protection, but still allow air and sunlight to age the boards. And they will fit a modest budget as well. Look into some of the hidden fastener systems that allow screws to be hidden in the edge of the boards. Kreg makes a deck installation system that works well, and they also offer screws that hold up to outside exposure.

You can use some the existing deck boards (the curved ones) as templates to cut the new boards to size. You could also pre-treat the boards prior to installation for maximum protection; don't forget to coat the cut ends as well. If the angles and screws are the only thing holding the rail system in place, consider using a bigger/stronger angle that will allow you to drill through the posts, and bolt them in place. I tend to overbuild things, so the added security will satisfy and safety concerns.

[Rich Enders]

Dawn,

Cedar: Soft, and will age within a few years to have a corduroy like surface. To minimize this you need to apply a protective finish, probably annually top and bottom.

Redwood: The most available and affordable is "Construction Heart". All of the light colored streaks will age like pine unless you protect them annually.. The extra cost of "All Heart" which will age better is not small.

Pressure Treated: The old chemistry was abandoned and the new stuff is not as good. I bought 4 x 4's from Home Depot, and stored them outside. In one year they are completely twisted and useless.

Ipe: Hard, durable, can go unfinished. At the $10/square foot noted by Jamie above you are somewhere under $3250. Hard to beat Ipe.

Capped composite: As Ole indicated above the old Trex did not maintain its appearance so well, but the new coated (capped) boards look and perform well. 15-20 year warranty against fading. Low to no maintenance, and about the same cost as ipe. Both Trex and Fiberon Horizon types are available at Home Depot, and presumably Lowes.

Screws: Galvanized or drywall-No. Coated-Maybe. SS-Yes. However if you go SS choose type 316, not 304. 316 and a few others are resistant to chlorine attack (salt water).

[dawn villaescusa]

Wow, thank you for all of the suggestions/information! A couple of you mentioned the angle straps - yes, that is what is holding the railing in place. It's held up very well so far through some significant storms, except now many are terribly rusted out. I hadn't thought about them being an issue, but will look for bigger ones that can be bolted to the posts.

I did some searching last night on the forum - got lots of threads about deck screws and decking -- I was surprised that several folks mentioned having good luck with the Trex-type decking. Previous research I had done seemed to have alot of negative reports on using it in a damp climate, but I think the main reason I stopped looking into it was when I saw that it requires joists to be closer than our 24 inches (we were told by the folks who did the under-work that they are in good shape). I think I read that Ipe also requires the narrower spacing? I guess I'm leaning toward Redwood at this point.

As for sanding the existing decking, we have a couple of issues. The boards are nailed down, plus it looks like boards have been replaced periodically, so we have some odd gaps making the differences very noticeable. Also, my hubby and I did some measuring and inspecting yesterday and 3 of the boards have significant rotting going on. Enough that we're thinking we might need to have a change-of-plans and get a professional in here to do the whole thing rather than us doing it a section at a time.

[dawn villaescusa]

"Fine Homebuilding" magazine has a article on decks in the current issue. There's some novel ideas in the article including the use of metal structuring, There might be something of interest in it for you.
Good luck,
Mac

Thank you Mac, I'll try to pick up a copy!

[dawn villaescusa]

I was wrong - the rails are bolted to the support structure below the decking. I feel much better! We're still going to get a couple of quotes. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Tom M King]

Here on the lake, a lot of people turn their decking boards on their docks over after a few years past twenty, and get at least another ten years out of them. It's always a surprise what the underside of deck boards that have terrible splits and checks on the top look like underneath. I use Deckmate "stardrive" screws.

Since the boards have done what warping and twisting they are going to do by now, I alternate sides of the board on each joist for the screw. I even build new decks like that, and they do seem to last longer not being so tightly tied down, side to side.

We recently turned over some decking boards at a house. The deck was built in 1991. The top looked awful. The bottoms were even still the original treated color.

[dawn villaescusa]

Here on the lake, a lot of people turn their decking boards on their docks over after a few years past twenty, and get at least another ten years out of them. It's always a surprise what the underside of deck boards that have terrible splits and checks on the top look like underneath. I use Deckmate "stardrive" screws.

Since the boards have done what warping and twisting they are going to do by now, I alternate sides of the board on each joist for the screw. I even build new decks like that, and they do seem to last longer not being so tightly tied down, side to side.

We recently turned over some decking boards at a house. The deck was built in 1991. The top looked awful. The bottoms were even still the original treated color.

Looking at it from underneath, it doesn't look so great. Being up so high exposes it to the elements quite a bit, I think. It will be interesting to see how well/easily it comes up being nailed in place.

[Tom M King]

I do it with my two helpers. I hit a cat's paw nail puller one time to set it under the nail head, first helper pulls the puller towards him while sitting on the deck, so I don't have to change position. Then since he has it in his hand, he moves it to the next nail, but I take it from him before I hit it. After we get enough up to get out of the way of the third helper, the 3rd uses a long wrecking bar to pull the nail. We go along one joist at the time. Having at least one helper to pull the puller saves a lot of time and moving around.

[Greg Portland]

Screws: Galvanized or drywall-No. Coated-Maybe. SS-Yes. However if you go SS choose type 316, not 304. 316 and a few others are resistant to chlorine attack (salt water).
Use stainless screws... period. Get a stainless drive bit to avoid metal contamination. Wera has some quality offerings.

Here's a good article on coastal deck building:
http://www.beverlyma.gov/docs/dm/Decks-Coastal.pdf

[dawn villaescusa]

Use stainless screws... period. Get a stainless drive bit to avoid metal contamination. Wera has some quality offerings.

Here's a good article on coastal deck building:
http://www.beverlyma.gov/docs/dm/Decks-Coastal.pdf

Thanks, never thought of the bit! I found this article a few days ago and printed it out to read with my hubby. Really good resource, thanks!

[Chris Parks]

I put literally thousands of SS deck screws in with normal driving bits and have seen no issues that resulted from that in over 15 years. I have never used a SS bit but would think that they would be too soft to have a long life. The contamination issue may be a valid concern and I am just commenting using my own personal experience.