Hospital visits not so private any longer.....

[Scott Shepherd]

Unfortunately I had to make an emergency trip to the Emergency Room weeks ago. Even more unfortunately, I'm one of those people that lost my health care due to the new health care law. I'm one of those people that people on the news and in Washington say "don't exist". All that aside, I'm now getting calls from all sorts of people that tell me they are with the hospital. However, they never seem to have any of my data and their number is always from out of state or blocked.

I received the bill from the radiology company, local, and it all looks normal. Got a bill from the Doctor (who never did so much as introduce himself, or even show his face), which I guess is right too.

However, I noticed an odd named on some mail and I opened it to find out that it was from a third party telling me that they knew I had a visit to the ER and didn't have health insurance and on that letter, it said they wanted to know if I wanted to apply for help with the bill of _______________ and they had the amount of the bill on there. Now how in the world did a third party get my private billing information without my consent BEFORE i've even gotten the bill.

No where did I sign anything to release my private information to third party companies. The amount of information they have shared is alarming to me. I always thought that was private data. I guess not any more.

I can see how so many people get scammed. One person told me specifically that they were from the hospital, but yet they didn't know some of my information. Before I realized it, I had given her some of my info, thinking I was verifying my account, not giving someone phishing all my data.

I can't imagine how older people don't get scammed by things like this every single day.

[Mel Fulks]

Wild and informative story. Cold call with info on your bill! And yet everyone at medical offices calls you by your first name
to "protect your privacy".

[Kev Williams]

Don't be so quick to blame the hospital for sharing. The fact your callers don't have all of your info may be evidence they didn't get their info from the hospital at all. In this day and age of instant mass communication, and all of it sent by the same wire, satellite and radio frequency everyone on the planet is connected to, all any 'third party' needs to get any info on anyone is one person with a little computer hacking skills. Add in the fact that there's a camera every 100' and they're all connected to the same system--- Privacy?

[Dan Hintz]

Sorry, but there is some sharing going on (legal gray areas abound here)... no hacking of any kind is involved in such stuff.

[Scott Shepherd]

Don't be so quick to blame the hospital for sharing. The fact your callers don't have all of your info may be evidence they didn't get their info from the hospital at all. In this day and age of instant mass communication, and all of it sent by the same wire, satellite and radio frequency everyone on the planet is connected to, all any 'third party' needs to get any info on anyone is one person with a little computer hacking skills. Add in the fact that there's a camera every 100' and they're all connected to the same system--- Privacy?

Then how'd they get the total for the bill if I haven't even seen it yet? It was down to the penny.

[Wade Lippman]

How did you lose your insurance without being able to buy more?

[Scott Shepherd]

How did you lose your insurance without being able to buy more?

The premium doubled.

[Wade Lippman]

The premium doubled.

Okay, but you couldn't get a cheaper plan? Or a subsidy?

3 years ago the first phase of Obamacare let me buy insurance for 40% of what it would have been otherwise. This year I got a better plan for 10% less than that; without any subsidy. While most people didn't make out that well, I didn't think anyone got screwed. Sorry to hear that.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The news could just as easily been picked up on a website like this if you mentioned you had to make a trip to ER.

It wouldn't surprise me if companies don't do a Google search looking for that kind of information across the web. So someone who says I made a trip to the ER because I cut my thumb with my bandsaw, I don't have insurance and it cost me a bundle"...well that info just became public information and available for searchbots.

[Scott Shepherd]

Okay, but you couldn't get a cheaper plan? Or a subsidy?

3 years ago the first phase of Obamacare let me buy insurance for 40% of what it would have been otherwise. This year I got a better plan for 10% less than that; without any subsidy. While most people didn't make out that well, I didn't think anyone got screwed. Sorry to hear that.

Nope, no cheaper plans, just more expensive plans with much higher deductibles. No subsidy, sorry. Glad it worked out better for you, it didn't for me, or the many people I have met over the last 3 months that are in my same situation. A call to my Senator's office left me more dumbfounded than I've ever been in my life. The short answer was there's nothing they could do, but they were trying to get a cheaper plan passed, with higher deductibles. Huh? $6,000 isn't high enough? Geez. I do assure you there are many real people like me who are in the same shoes as I am now. I told the person in the Senator's office "Thanks for fixing this, I had insurance, now I don't, so great job, keep up the good work".

Ken, they'd have to know my address or phone number to contact me and none of that's posted on here, nor had I posted it anywhere before I got the letters and calls I mentioned in this post.

[David Weaver]

Okay, but you couldn't get a cheaper plan? Or a subsidy?

3 years ago the first phase of Obamacare let me buy insurance for 40% of what it would have been otherwise. This year I got a better plan for 10% less than that; without any subsidy. While most people didn't make out that well, I didn't think anyone got screwed. Sorry to hear that.

Wade, presume you're on the older side of pre-65 medical coverage? The age ratings limitation lowered the cost of a lot of near-medicare plans to premiums that are actually less than you're expected to claim against the policies.

They increased premiums for people on the low end of the age spectrum, though.

[David Weaver]

Nope, no cheaper plans, just more expensive plans with much higher deductibles. No subsidy, sorry. Glad it worked out better for you, it didn't for me, or the many people I have met over the last 3 months that are in my same situation. A call to my Senator's office left me more dumbfounded than I've ever been in my life. The short answer was there's nothing they could do, but they were trying to get a cheaper plan passed, with higher deductibles. Huh? $6,000 isn't high enough? Geez. I do assure you there are many real people like me who are in the same shoes as I am now. I told the person in the Senator's office "Thanks for fixing this, I had insurance, now I don't, so great job, keep up the good work".

Ken, they'd have to know my address or phone number to contact me and none of that's posted on here, nor had I posted it anywhere before I got the letters and calls I mentioned in this post.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're legally allowed to get your information if you have an uninsured claim. Someone may have, under the name of doing good, passed legislation assuming that most people who are uninsured would be overwhelmed cost-wise and may need financing help.

Of course, if you're not looking for it, that won't do you any good.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Scott,

If I was wiling to pay a fee, I could probably get your address and phone number. There are numerous companies that provide that information.

[Scott Shepherd]

I doubt you'll get my hospital bill total, which is the point of this thread. How are 3rd parties getting my personal medical information without my consent?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

As someone who worked in hospitals and had to deal with HIPAA regulations, I am surprised to see that. Sorry I didn't read closer earlier. I would call the institution, ask to speak to a manger in the billing department and inquire if HIPAA regulations have changed allowing the sharing of this personal information.

[Art Mann]

My daughter-in-law works for a large third party billing company that handles the billing for most of the hospitals in our area. Obviously, there is no law prohibiting the hospital from sharing at least the billing part of a patient's medical record with third party organizations. They bill individuals and insurance companies associated with many thousands of patients a year.

[Brian W Smith]

The VERY best of luck to you.........am sure,with time,it'll work out.

My best health care story is when our twins were born,26 years ago.We had,not one....but two completely different policy's.There was an overlap,where we were changing from one co. to another.Wouldn't you know it,the twins were born right in the middle of the overlap.They(both co.s)were arguing the coverage right down to the second.........wifey and I just sat back and enjoyed the moment,haha.All three entities,....two insurance co.s,and the hospital were threatening us with all manner of litigation.We just sat back and let them fight it out......one of life's great pleasures.

[Scott Shepherd]

My daughter-in-law works for a large third party billing company that handles the billing for most of the hospitals in our area. Obviously, there is no law prohibiting the hospital from sharing at least the billing part of a patient's medical record with third party organizations. They bill individuals and insurance companies associated with many thousands of patients a year.

Art, they aren't a third party billing company trying to get the bill paid, they are a third party company trying to get me to sign up for their services. If it were as simple as someone else handling the hospital's paper work, in their name, I'd understand, but this is a company that is NOT collecting money for the hospital. Again, I haven't even seen the hospital bill yet. These people have more information than I do. That's what's making it hard to deal with, when the phone rings, without knowing the details of the bill, I can't tell if I'm talking to the actual people I owe money to or if I'm getting scammed into something. It's real serious (to me) when someone says "Can I verify your information?" and then asks you to verify your social security number, your address, the reason for the visit, and then you get a letter in the mail 3 days later from out of state that's a generic form from their company with your information hand written in from the phone conversation. So you think you are verifying the account information with the hospital, but in fact, you're actually giving them all your information. How the heck I'm supposed to sort out who's real and who's fake is beyond me.

[Lee Schierer]

I doubt you'll get my hospital bill total, which is the point of this thread. How are 3rd parties getting my personal medical information without my consent?

That is a very good question and the most qualified people to answer it are located at the hospital. I suggest you ask them and get the straight story.

[Wade Lippman]

Wade, presume you're on the older side of pre-65 medical coverage? The age ratings limitation lowered the cost of a lot of near-medicare plans to premiums that are actually less than you're expected to claim against the policies.

They increased premiums for people on the low end of the age spectrum, though.

Yes, I initially got into a plan specifically for pre-65 retirees; saved me about 60%. It never seemed quite right, but I never questioned it.

Around here the bronze plans are really cheap, but I guess some areas are more expensive.

[Jim Becker]

Around here the bronze plans are really cheap, but I guess some areas are more expensive.

The reality is that for many folks the "Silver" or better plans are actually less expensive overall for situations where people actually use their insurance with some frequency due to medical issues. While the monthly premiums are higher, the out-of-pocket is much less. The base "bronze" plans are great for younger, healthy people and are designed more for catastrophic coverage, outside of the mandated wellness care.

------
Scott, I hope you have raised your issues with the Hospital. The health care privacy regulations are pretty darn strict and it sounds like your information was compromised in some way. People who work in the hospital, for example, can't even acknowledge they know you to anyone if they see you are there for treatment...

[David Weaver]

Yes, I initially got into a plan specifically for pre-65 retirees; saved me about 60%. It never seemed quite right, but I never questioned it.

Around here the bronze plans are really cheap, but I guess some areas are more expensive.

Well, I wouldn't question whether it's right or not, it's part of the law :) That part was put in there specifically because it is a very real problem for people to end up getting dumped by an employer in their late 50s and then be pummeled by huge individual insurance premiums. It's a different time now. We analyze turnover a lot at work, and in the classic groups, turnover was very low at later ages, and when people had an event (full retirement age, etc) they inevitably waited for that age. In the last 10 years, the turnover doesn't look like that anymore. The old places where you would see really high retirement rates (62 at social security eligibility, etc) are now not much different than other ages around that because people work for a plant that gets closed, or they get let go involuntarily at what appears to me to be a much higher rate than data I was looking at in 2000 or so.

That's coupled with post-retiree medical plans that have pretty much been eliminated, and the elimination of major medical only type plans and I think it was well known that something needed to be done.

The flip side of it is that a kid who was before paying $80 a month for skimpy coverage gets a minimum mandate and a different age multiplier, and they're looking at something more like 3x that amount. Just the way it is now.

[Scott Shepherd]

The reality is that for many folks the "Silver" or better plans are actually less expensive overall for situations where people actually use their insurance with some frequency due to medical issues. While the monthly premiums are higher, the out-of-pocket is much less. The base "bronze" plans are great for younger, healthy people and are designed more for catastrophic coverage, outside of the mandated wellness care.

------
Scott, I hope you have raised your issues with the Hospital. The health care privacy regulations are pretty darn strict and it sounds like your information was compromised in some way. People who work in the hospital, for example, can't even acknowledge they know you to anyone if they see you are there for treatment...

The reality is there are now a lot of people like me, without health insurance. For a plan that was supposed to get healthcare to people, it didn't do a very good job. I can't tell you how many people tell the same story I do. We exist guys, we're out here and it's very real. It's not a political statement, it's people like me, working for a living, just trying to make ends meet. You just don't hear the stories because they don't make the news or fit the narrative of how great it all is.

I had insurance, decent insurance. Now I don't. Not by my choice to stop it.

Jim, I do plan on having a conversation with them as soon as the actual bill shows up with their contact info on it. I posted them mainly to demonstrate how confusing it is to actually have a clue if you're paying people that actually treated you and should be paid or if you're being scammed. Imagine, if you wanted to scam people, how great it would be to get a free list of names and numbers of people like that. You could just send them a bill that looked official and if they paid it, you made money. I have no idea if the doctor even looked at my case that sent me a bill for about a $1,000. I never once saw him or spoke to him. I only know it's a him because his name was William or something on the bill. Since I was the only person in the ER that morning, you'd think he would have walked in and said "What brings you in here today?". Nope. So I didn't even get to see him and it cost me $1,000.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Scott,

Check out the following link for information about your privacy as regulated by HIPAA. As an employee of a company who was a contractor, I worked in hospitals and we had to abide to HIPAA rules. They are very stringent! To troubleshoot an artifact that occurred in a patient exam image, to meet HIPAA regulations I had to create a copy of the image, remove all patient data, give the image a new image number and then I could network it to headquarters for further analysis or other opinions.

My sister is a nurse practitioner who runs a clinic in Eastern Kentucky. She has to abide by the HIPAA regulations. If she refers a patient, for example to a cardiologist, she has to have them comeback after they visit the specialist and obtain written permission from the patient to contact the other doctor. She does this so she can contact the specialist to find what prescriptions they may have prescribed and insure what she prescribes doesn't interfere and vice versa.

Research here and then call the hospital: http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/consumers/index.html

It appear to me billing information is not allowed to be made public. Read it for yourself to check my opinion.

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks Ken, that link specific says that your billing information cannot be given out to anyone. So it'll be interesting to dig a little deeper into it all. Once I get the contact info for the bill, I'm going to look into it further and report back.

[Stephen Musial]

I doubt you'll get my hospital bill total, which is the point of this thread. How are 3rd parties getting my personal medical information without my consent?

Why don't you find an attorney who will work on contingency and they can have a little chit chat with the hospital and the 3rd party about HIPPA?

[Jack Terpack]

Recently I had to visit the ER for an injury. The first paper they want you to sign is for HIPAH. That is a privacy paper that allows them to share your info supposedly with your family doctor or your emergency contact. This was the first time I ever actually read the form as my wife is a retired RN with a lot of ER experience.

That form now allows them to submit any and all your info to any government agency that wants it.

I refused to sign the form and they raised a stink until I said I had to wait for my lawyer to come down and verify if this form was legally binding. They seemed to cool off real quick then.

I will never sign any form in any hospital or government agency without reading it. I used to trust these people, not any more.



Jack

[John Sanford]

You could just send them a bill that looked official and if they paid it, you made money. I have no idea if the doctor even looked at my case that sent me a bill for about a $1,000. I never once saw him or spoke to him. I only know it's a him because his name was William or something on the bill. Since I was the only person in the ER that morning, you'd think he would have walked in and said "What brings you in here today?". Nope. So I didn't even get to see him and it cost me $1,000.
If you never saw the doctor, then don't pay for having seen the doctor. That's pretty simple. (note: if you were unconscious, it may be tough to make this one stick...)

As for the rest, it does sound like some serious compromising of data has taken place. Now, the good news is it doesn't sound like your actual medical data has been compromised. The bad news is, whoever/whatever is responsible for this isn't likely to be on the hook for violating your medical privacy. BUT, back to some good news. They are probably liable for compromising your FINANCIAL privacy. Not as big of a stick, unless some form of hacking was involved, but plenty good enough. I'd suggest you get answers ASAP from the hospital, and if the answers aren't immediately forthcoming, contact both your local (town/city/county) law enforcement AND your state's Attorney General's office. If there's somebody on the inside feeding info to scammers, the faster you move, the more likely it is they'll get caught.

[Jim Koepke]

Ken, they'd have to know my address or phone number to contact me and none of that's posted on here, nor had I posted it anywhere before I got the letters and calls I mentioned in this post.

I found an address and a phone # for you fairly quickly on the internet. Even if it is a business address it can lead a savvy seeker to more personal information. There are people who do this for a living.

The biggest problem with the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare if you prefer, is politicians in some states are doing everything they can to make sure it doesn't work.

In other states politicians are doing everything they can to make sure it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

As long as we have politicians who feel their personal or party agendas are more important than the well being of America we will have these kinds of problems with national programs.

America works best when we work together. We are at our worst when we are divisively pulling in every different direction.

jtk

[Scott Shepherd]

I found an address and a phone # for you fairly quickly on the internet. Even if it is a business address it can lead a savvy seeker to more personal information. There are people who do this for a living.



That was never in question, the question is, find on the internet where it says how much my hospital bill was.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim...I missed that little detail too the first time I read Scott's post.

[David Weaver]

I think you guys are discounting my comment too much. I just got a renewal packet yesterday, and I noticed the language in it basically says that the health plan can spread my data around any way they like (of course as long as it doesn't violate any laws).

HIPAA (which I am no expert on) defines precisely what data is considered personally identifying (and that is a definition by statute, code or regulation, not common sense). If HIPAA did not describe the fact that you're uninsured and the amount of money your bill is for as protected information, and nothing else does either, the hospital very well may sell your data to a third party that offers services for uninsured individuals.

And it could very well be at the same time that such a business is allowed by law (in your state) to "help" uninsured participants and advise them about what they may or may not be able to get away with not paying.

i doubt it's something as devious as a hacker attaching a sniffer to the billing system at the hospital.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

I have no doubt Steve (Scott) had this happen. We moved into a rental house 4 years ago while our house was on the market. For insurance & mortgage purposes, we were supposed to be living in our house, so I did not change any address info the entire time the house was vacant while up for sale. I use a PO Box in the new town where the rental house is located as well as kept the old PO Box active. I NEVER give out the physical address of the rental house as my personal information because it will never be our permanent home.

Shortly after moving into the rental, I needed to visit the ER. For whatever reason, they insisted on having a physical address for me - maybe for my emergency contact. The bill was paid when I left ER via my credit card tied to the old PO Box address. Less then 1 month later, I was receiving junk mail addressed to me at the rental house mailbox. There is only one source those mailers could have obtained my rental address - the hospital.