Agazzani Bandsaw Help Needed - Tight Wheel, Hot Motor Questions

[Casey Jones Atlanta]

I recently purchased a used Agazzani saw off of CL for a great price. The saw is in excellent shape and cuts like a dream, but this is my first bandsaw and I do not know the inner workings of the machine and wanted to see if anyone had any advice (or if you are local to Atlanta and would be willing to swing by my shop to look, that would be great!) on a couple of things that bother me about the saw.

First, when I put a blade on to track (with minimal to no tension), I really have to exert force on the wheels to get them to rotate. All bandsaw videos I see on the web show wheels that spin easily when tracking the blade, as in one finger can rotate things. My wheels are far too tight to do that. The bottom wheel is definitely the culprit, as it doesn't spin freely without a blade on (the upper wheel spins easily), and it is particularly tight with a blade on. I spoke to Jesse at Eagle and he said the Agazzani bottom wheel is tighter than on some saws because it is attached to the belt that connects to the motor, but that I should still be able to track the blade by turning the wheels with one finger. What am I missing?

Second, the motor on my machine gets incredibly hot. I can't touch the motor after the saw has been running for several minutes, with or without making any cuts. I can understand some heat, but it seems excessive. I've checked all wiring and am using 30 amp 220v power, so I don't think it is an electrical thing. Could it by chance be related to the tight lower wheel?

Outside of these issues the saw is incredible. If I can figure these two things out, I'll feel much better. Thank you for any advice you can provide.

[Jeff Duncan]

Take the belt off the bottom wheel, if it's still tight there are only 2 things I can think of….
1) If the saw has a brake it may be stuck. Check to see if it does and if it is first.
2) bearings are gone, and I mean really, really, gone! Do not run the saw as you may already have some serious damage!

If the wheel turns effortlessly as it should with the belt off then your problem is with the motor. Assuming the motor does not have an electronic brake it's probably the motors bearings….refer to #2 above! FWIW by the time bearings have gotten so bad as to seize a machine up, they are very likely doing damage to the surrounding metal. Do not run your machine until you have isolated the problem. I hope it's just a brake as the motor getting hot from running means you have run this machine already a significant amount, and if it is a bearing problem you may have made it a LOT worse!:( For future reference never ever, ever, run a machine that doesn't seem right. Only bad things can come of it!

good luck,
JeffD

[Phil Thien]

Jeff's advice is spot-on, you have to figure out if the problem is the wheel, or the motor. You do that by removing the belt. If the wheel spins freely, you know it is the motor. If it still is a bear to spin, you have a problem w/ the wheel bearings.

[Carroll Courtney]

Welcome Casey,I think those are direct drive motors but its still the same one step at a time.With the blade remove does the upper wheel turn easy?If so then no problem there,but like Jeff suggested make sure if a brake is present that it is release.So if the brake is good then that just leaves the motor,which you will have to remove the wheel to remove the motor.Google your saw for a parts manual before starting making notes taking pics as you disassemble.Maybe post some pics so that suggestions will be better than guessing----Congrats on that saw,always heard that its the best,this is just a minor setback so be positive----Carroll
Yes,not turning easy like its design to will cause it to over amp and get very hot and damage the motor.But not knowing the history of the saw and the seller that may be where the problem lies.The motor

[Casey Jones Atlanta]

Thanks all for the advice so far. I removed the belt and reinstalled the bottom wheel to see how it spun. It spins completely freely, as does the top wheel. I then put a blade on and slightly tensioned to imitate how I'd normally track the blade, and both wheels again spun completely freely. So, wheels are good, and it must be the motor.

With the belt off, I can turn the shaft of the motor with my hands, but it's a major struggle to do so (the same level of force I was having to exert on the wheels when the belt was on). The motor does not make any noise when I spin the shaft, which I thought it might do if the bearings were shot, but again, it's incredibly tight. Might this mean it's a brake issue? My saw is an 18" Agazzani Rapid. The saw has a self-braking motor, so I wouldn't know if a brake was engaged that was keeping things locked down because I don't know where within the motor housing the break is. oes anyone have any experience troubleshooting motors? I've attached some photos of what mine looks like. I'm perfectly comfortable disassembling the motor if you think it would be worthwhile, but I probably will need some guidance on what I'm looking for. I have been unable to track down an owners manual for the saw.

As for background, the saw was manufactured in 2000. It was purchased by a hobbyist woodworker who apparently took really good care of it, as the saw when I purchased it was spotless with no rust, no major dings or nicks, and very little signs of use. The gentlemen who originally owned it sold it along with some other power tools to the person that I ultimately purchased the saw from. The person I bought the saw from never used the saw, and my guess is it sat idle for at least a couple years. I have 100% confidence that the person I bought the saw from had no idea that the problem existed (he was an incredibly honest and nice guy). I knew I might eventually come across some issues being that the saw was older, so I negotiated a pretty good price I think, even if in the end I need to replace the motor. But hopefully I won't have to.

Would love further guidance from here. And again, thank you very much for the help.

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[John Lanciani]

That motor has an internal brake; if it's anything like the CEG motors on the Rojek machines that I have it is spring applied and electrically released. If the brake isn't releasing properly that's your problem. You're probably going to need to get ahold of the technical paper for the motor to determine if it needs adjustment or replacement parts. Whatever you do, don't keep trying to run it before you get a handle on the problem or you're sure to burn it out.

Edited to add; If the saw has been sitting for a while it could be that the brake mechanism is rusted or gunked up to the point that the electromagnet does not have enough force to release the brake. My bet is that you just need to tear it down and clean and adjust the brake for it to work properly. Pop the fan cover off and take a pic for us to see, I can probably walk you through the adjustments.

[Carroll Courtney]

Myself not knowing anything about DC braking or Agg bandsaws period,I would start checking the connections in the box on the motor and see if all is good maybe a loose wire or burn wire will be spotted.Maybe there is a wiring diagram on the inside of the motor cover that shows what wires goes to the brake.Guessing that with power off the brake is lock,so when power is on its should release,so maybe a wire is loose that would energize sending power (DC) to the brake.
Casey sorry if it sound like I was insinuating a dishonest seller which I was not,I should choose my words better.Myself,not being there and seeing the saw and did not know if you ask questions,if buying it from a fellow woodworker,friend or one of those guys that buys machines at auctions then just flips them.Thats why I said not knowing the seller.I have purchase a shop full of machines over the yrs off of CL's,if I'm buying if from the original owner or second,third owner which all were honest and had no reason to wonder.Buying from a flipper or auction,its a roll of the dice.
I wanted to take the time to explain myself cause you being a new member,I did not want to give Saw Mill Creek or myself a bad name.
Now,dang what a saw you have it is awesome-----Carroll

[Phil Thien]

One thing that would be interesting to know would be how much current the motor draws just free-spinning. That may shed some light on whether a brake is applying a force, or not. I'm not saying it would be conclusive, but if the motor is drawing its nameplate max. just free-spinning, then you know for sure there is something wrong inside.

[David Kumm]

There are several ways to slow a motor but some Italian machines use a shoe that contacts the motor fan. Take off the end bell and look at the fan. If it is the flimsy plastic we are used to seeing, put the bell back on. If it is heavy steel or cast iron, remove it and the brake shoe should be visible. It needs to be adjusted farther away or it is locked in place. With the fan off the motor should spin freely. Aggi might have used a DC injection module like Moeller or Versi brake but you would see it in the electrics somewhere. Dave

[Rick Fisher]

Something is fighting the motor and making it work extra hard. Bearing is my first guess. I wouldn't run it till the bearings where checked.

[Casey Jones Atlanta]

I pulled the cover off the fan. The fan is steel. I can't quite figure out how to remove it. It has an allen screw that I've removed, but it also appears to have a pin of some sort. Any thoughts? I also pulled the cover off the electrical box for the motor and have removed the motor from the machine. Not sure if it is helpful, but I included a photo of a little side module in the motor's electrical box. Maybe this is the brake component?

If I can't make any further progress, I will likely end up trying to take it to a motor repair shop. Does anyone know of a good place in the Atlanta area that services electric motors, particularly someone with experience with Italian motors?

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[John Lanciani]

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As I suspected, very similar to my CEG motors. The allen screw on the end of the shaft sets the gap between the back of the fan and the friction material. When the motor is de-energized there should be no gap (as seen in your pic). When the motor is energized the electromagnet (gold annodized piece with light blue cable running into it in my pic) pulls the brake pad away from the back of the fan. I'd say that you have one of two problems, either the brake is rusted up and cant release or the electromagnet is not functioning. Based on the rust showing in your second picture I'd bet on the former. If the magnet has failed it's a small job to remove the entire mechanism and just not have the brake.

ETA; If you do decide to take the brake apart be warned that there is a rather large spring inside, it could get exciting if you weren't prepared for it.

One more thing, the wiring in your third pic does not look to be factory, I'd bet coffee that someone has already messed with it at least once.

[Casey Jones Atlanta]

We may be getting somewhere. I was able to wedge the fan away from the motor a bit. With the fan free from the brake, the shaft now spins very easily.

John, I think you may be correct on the rust. Do you think I can simply take the brake pad (which I assume is the large metal plate behind the fan) and clean the rust off (WD40 and some maroon 3M pads), then reassemble? On your CEG motor, when it is de-energized does the shaft and fan spin freely, or does it feel really tight? I ask because if it is tight when de-energized due to the brake being engaged, that takes me back to square one, because my original problem was that I can't easily spin my wheels when tracking my blade when the saw is turned off.

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[Rick Fisher]

I just had a thought ..

I have a Griggio Jointer with an electromagnetic brake.. You cant spin the cutterhead by hand unless there is power to the motor. There is a lockout switch which allows you to engage the contactor but the motor doesn't spin. It does however spin freely in this mode.

The reason they give you this function is to change the blades.

My motor on a bandsaw might actually be spinnable if I had the leverage of a Bandsaw wheel.. but I know it would be stiff

[John Lanciani]

Hi Casey,
The brake is activated when there is no power to the motor, it's a failsafe design so that if the machine loses power the blade stops. As with Rick's machine, mine have release positions on the motor switches for maintenance.

ETA; How comfortable are you with electricity? It's pretty easy to test the function of the brake rectifier if you want to see if it's working correctly.

[Casey Jones Atlanta]

I reassembled the motor. During reassembly I realized that before I pulled it apart, the fan was originally screwed on too tight and was directly touching the brake pad which was directly in contact with the motor. Upon reassembly, I loosened the fan about 1/16" and set the depth nuts the same distance on the brake pad. This leaves the brake engaged when the machine is off but the 1/16" gap gives it space to attract to the magnet. Once all was out back together, I tested the machine. The electromagnet works when I turn the machine on and it pulls the brake off and away from the fan. Unfortunately my machine does not seem to have a mechanism to engage the electromagnet without the machine itself running and the wheels turning, so I still have the resistance when tracking the blade, but no resistance when the machine is running. My motor still generates some heat, but so far not as bad as it was before. Are there any dangers to disengaging the brake entirely? I may prefer that for ease of use.

[Phil Thien]

Are there any dangers to disengaging the brake entirely? I may prefer that for ease of use.

It is really a safety concern, I guess. Large bandsaws with heavy wheels tend to keep blades moving long after power is removed. The bandsaw we had in high school would easily run for a minute or two after power was removed.

I'm not sure what the overwhelming concern with a moving blade is. You can hear the blade moving. You could always push some scrap into the blade to slow it if you wanted to change blades and didn't want to wait.

Pretty much a decision you have to make on your own, I guess.

[David Kumm]

Is there no button to add power to disengage the brake? The machines i've seen with your configuration have a button that when pushed releases the brake. Dave

[Joe Calhoon]

I just read this. My Agazzani 36 locks the wheels like you describe. When changing the blade you push the top knob of the star delta (I think that is the correct term) switch in and rotate it to the left. This unlocks the wheels on mine.
i will take a picture tomorrow.
joe

[Casey Jones Atlanta]

Thanks Joe. I have multiple switches and I have used them all just for powering on the machine so far since I have no manual. It wouldn't surprise me if one disengaged the brake. Looking forward to seeing the picture. Thanks again.

[Joe Calhoon]

Thanks Joe. I have multiple switches and I have used them all just for powering on the machine so far since I have no manual. It wouldn't surprise me if one disengaged the brake. Looking forward to seeing the picture. Thanks again.
Try this Casey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0NGw-0X_vM&feature=youtu.be

[Casey Jones Atlanta]

That did the trick Joe. If only I had an instruction manual, I would have figured it out sooner!

Thanks everyone for the guidance on this. I now feel confident that the saw is in good working order, and I'm actually glad I went through the full disassembly process, as I know the tool much better now and will be able to troubleshoot better on my own going forward.

[Rick Fisher]

That was nice of you Joe.

[Rick Fisher]

And I want a 36" Agazanni Bandsaw now ..

Really bad ..

[David Kumm]

Joe has the best stuff ever. Dave

[Joe Calhoon]

And I want a 36" Agazanni Bandsaw now ..

Really bad ..
Hi Rick,
It has been a good saw. We use it mostly for resawing and have a poor quality Delta 14 for general curve cutting. I wanted old iron for the big saw but a job came up where we needed it right away and went new.

Joe

[Patrick McCarthy]

Joe has the best stuff ever. Dave

Oh Dave, that is so true. Very nice shop, and the location is gorgeous too.

[mreza Salav]

Joe has the best stuff ever. Dave

Can we see a few pic's of those cool stuff? please? :D
A shop tour would be even better!

[Joe Calhoon]

Oh Dave, that is so true. Very nice shop, and the location is gorgeous too.

Hi Patrick,
How are you doing with the shaper?
Joe

[Joe Calhoon]

Can we see a few pic's of those cool stuff? please? :D
A shop tour would be even better!

Ho Mo,
I just walked through and took a few phone pics. You can see how messy our shop gets when busy. The last few weeks we have made several entry units and passive house windows.
Joe


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[Joe Calhoon]

More

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[David Kumm]

Let me know when you have a garage sale. Dave

[Joe Calhoon]

Here is some of the work in progress

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[mreza Salav]

Loved it!! Thanks for the photos. I wish I was close to walk in some day to see the action too. Those are some nice doors too.
(feeling inadequate with my shop and the things I've been building in it).

What's that machine wrapped on the pallet?

[Joe Calhoon]

Loved it!! Thanks for the photos. I wish I was close to walk in some day to see the action too. Those are some nice doors too.
(feeling inadequate with my shop and the things I've been building in it).

What's that machine wrapped on the pallet?

Hi Mo,
I think your doors turned out great. Back when I started in 1976 there was no internet to help the learning process. Your project is turning out very good.

The machine wrapped up is my old Colombo tenoner. Soon on its way to a door and window shop in Maine.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Hi Patrick,
How are you doing with the shaper?
Joe

Joe, doing okay but wishing I would have gone euro rather than the PM 2700. Greg has been good with the tooling, but my bank acct not so much.
sorry we won't be there for the BBQ and open house. Would really enjoy seeing you guys again. Someday it will happen, I hope. Hope you all have a great time together.
Best regards, Patrick

[mreza Salav]

Thanks Joe, appreciate the kind words.
It is certainly true that Internet has been a game changer. Pretty much everything I have learned is via it and the help of people who have been doing it and my own trial and error.