OK...this is the year...I'm going for it...

[Harold Burrell]

Yeah. I'm trying to psych myself up for this.

I keep threatening to do it...and I am going to. This is it. Just do it.

I am going to start sharpening my chisels and plane irons free-hand. No more honing guides, sharpening jigs or...whatever. Free-hand, baby!

Yep. There's no turning back.





Well...until I get tired of rounding off everything...

[Matthew N. Masail]

Rounding off everything is not the bad evil unprofessional thing that has somehow been the modern message! Start off the 'Paul Sellers' way and you will be a master in a month. It help with learning because is it 100% not neurotic about holding a perfect angle (which is close to impossible anyway, maybe japanese 1\4inch+ thick Irons) and it is so comfortable to do. soon enough you learn to feel when you are on the edge and how you are working it and then you have great control over what your doing be it a convex bevel or micro bevel. freedom in this case is not so far away! sharpening kitchen knives help with the learning too. just make sure to tell your wife what you have done...

And you probably have much more woodworking skill then me so far! it's time to do it man! just do it! do it! are you scared....? I bet you can get a sharp edge the first time! prove me wrong.

[Bruce Mack]

Harold- I own most blade holding jigs and have used sandpaper on glass, metal plates with dabs of diamond compound, and water stones. Using jigs I had difficulty achieving consistent angles despite notation with sharpies on the blades and despite registration with the Veritas jig with recorded angle settings. Micro adjustments to get flat registration of the bevel drove me nuts.
I was taken with Paul Sellers' no-bulls*** discussions and videos. The short answer is I now use his freehand technique (with less exuberance) on 1000 and 5000 grit Shaptons, with a final run thru on chromium oxide on MDF. I hold the blade or chisel with my left hand and press down on the bevel with a couple of fingers on the right. The to and fro strokes create a modest curve, not an ultra flat bevel. I advance from 1000 to 5000 when I feel a burr on the flat of the blade, usually pretty quickly as I now sharpen more readily freehand. For the 5000 and the chromium oxide steps I often switch to side sharpening with the plane irons as I can see the swarf on the stone or MDF and visually assure that I am working the very edge of the blade, confirmed by seeing the shine on the end of the bevel.
It takes longer to write this up than to do the drill. The blades are sharp and I'll never go back.
Bruce

[paul cottingham]

Harold, my hat is off to you, sir. But...we need pictures or it never happened.
Ok, I am hoping to get some tips for what works for folks with this type of sharpening. So, pictures, my good sir.

[lowell holmes]

I learned to sharpen at a Paul Sellers class years ago. I use what he taught, however I have gone to cross body strokes. ala Mike Dunbar. I find it is easier to lock my body in a manner to prevent the rocking of the tool on the stone. I do use Paul's 30 strokes on the leather after the diamond hones. You can lock your arms moving laterally from your hips and get a flat even edge. I use it for back bevel.

[Jim Koepke]

I am going to start sharpening my chisels and plane irons free-hand. No more honing guides, sharpening jigs or...whatever. Free-hand, baby!

Yep. There's no turning back.


Should I PM you my address so you can truly free yourself of those evil things?

I was just thinking today while honing a PM V11 blade how nice it would be to have a holder. It and my thicker LN blades can be a hassle to sharpen free hand.

Once the guide is set up one can get the blade sharp faster. Usually though doing a blade without a guide can go faster because of the lack of set up time.

jtk

[Andrew Fleck]

No need to get psyched up. I switched to freehand last year and the learning curve was shorter than I expected. Once I learned to relax I started getting consistent results. Once you get good at it you will probably wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

[David Weaver]

Harold, how do you grind your tools right now?

[Winton Applegate]

Free-hand, baby!

Madness.
Sheer , I-forgot-to-put-my-pants-on-this-morning-and-I-don't-care-that-people-are-staring-and-pointing-at-me . . .
barkingmadness.

There is help available for this. (and meds) You don't have to suffer alone.
It is a good sign that you are willing to talk about it. It means you aren't too far gone.

Hopefully we can talk you down BEFORE you take the leap.

In the future when you begin to have those thoughts just call me. I know it is tempting. Believe me. I've been there. But down that dark tunnel lies false hope and it will all end in tears.
:)

[Matthew N. Masail]

No need to get psyched up. I switched to freehand last year and the learning curve was shorter than I expected. Once I learned to relax I started getting consistent results. Once you get good at it you will probably wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

That is very true about being relaxed. I used to wonder how David Fink moves the blade is circular motions so easily and smoothly, then I tried it once totally relaxed and it was an eye opener, now I'll sometimes use that for micro bevels, I'm still experimenting with everything. changing stones doesn't help with the settling.

[Winton Applegate]

30 strokes on the leather after the diamond hones

See now people tell me I take too long and used too many stones.
If I take six strokes on each of five stones (which is literally about what I do) that is 30 strokes, the blade is more accurate than all that rocking around free hand stropping etc.,
and
I have saved all those strokes on the diamond that hasn't even been totaled up yet.

. . . I'm just saying . . .

[Moses Yoder]

Actually, if you were going to do it and be successful you would have just done it and then posted the results. Here you are threatening to do it, kind of like someone threatening to shoot themselves. It is exactly the same thing as me asking some questions about how to make a coffin smoother and I haven't even started it yet and then some guy from outer Mongolia with just a Q-tip for tools posts pictures of the stadium full of planes he built.

[Kees Heiden]

Good for you Harold. Go for it!

[Harold Burrell]

Harold, how do you grind your tools right now?

Well, Dave...I have a variable speed 6" grinder with a white Norton AND I have a Grizzly slow speed 8".


Should I PM you my address so you can truly free yourself of those evil things?


ummm...no.


Madness.
Sheer , I-forgot-to-put-my-pants-on-this-morning-and-I-don't-care-that-people-are-staring-and-pointing-at-me . . .
barkingmadness.

There is help available for this. (and meds) You don't have to suffer alone.
It is a good sign that you are willing to talk about it. It means you aren't too far gone.

Hopefully we can talk you down BEFORE you take the leap.

In the future when you begin to have those thoughts just call me. I know it is tempting. Believe me. I've been there. But down that dark tunnel lies false hope and it will all end in tears.
:)

You, sir, should either be a professional writer...or you need professional help. ;)


Actually, if you were going to do it and be successful you would have just done it and then posted the results. Here you are threatening to do it, kind of like someone threatening to shoot themselves.

Funny you brought that up...because I very well may shoot myself before this is over. :D

[Matthew N. Masail]

Actually, if you were going to do it and be successful you would have just done it and then posted the results. Here you are threatening to do it, kind of like someone threatening to shoot themselves. It is exactly the same thing as me asking some questions about how to make a coffin smoother and I haven't even started it yet and then some guy from outer Mongolia with just a Q-tip for tools posts pictures of the stadium full of planes he built.

Yeah, sometimes we spend way too much time thinking about it and way too little time actually experimenting with it.

[David Weaver]

I'd focus on doing a good job with the grind and working as little metal as possible. Personally, would keep using the dry grinder if you're using it and you can get an accurate close-to-the-edge grind. Of course, you can do the same thing with the wet grinder, too.

Just grind a good primary, lift the iron a degree or two and work the edge a little bit and the back generously.

[Harold Burrell]

I'd focus on doing a good job with the grind and working as little metal as possible. Personally, would keep using the dry grinder if you're using it and you can get an accurate close-to-the-edge grind. Of course, you can do the same thing with the wet grinder, too.

Just grind a good primary, lift the iron a degree or two and work the edge a little bit and the back generously.

Yeah. That is the way I was going to approach it, hollow ground and as little metal as possible on the stones.

[Mark Engel]

I don't get it.

Why give up the jigs? Is it just to save the 28 seconds it takes to put the tool in the jig?

I just don't get it. I can change channels on the TV without the remote, but I see no real need to do that either.

[Andrew Fleck]

I don't get it.

Why give up the jigs? Is it just to save the 28 seconds it takes to put the tool in the jig?

I just don't get it. I can change channels on the TV without the remote, but I see no real need to do that either.

For me, I like being able to just grab my iron or chisel and just put it the stone without messing around with a jig of some sort. The final straw for jigs with me was a narrow chisel that kept slipping in my jig. I also think honing freehand sets you up well for times when a jig may not work with whatever you are trying to hone.

Your analogy kind of works for freehanding. I can sharpen on my stone with a jig, but I see no real need to do that.

[Mark Engel]

Your analogy kind of works for freehanding. I can sharpen on my stone with a jig, but I see no real need to do that.

Well, that's a good point. Jigs and water stones do not get along. At least the jigs that want to ride on the stone.

[David Weaver]

I don't get it.

Why give up the jigs? Is it just to save the 28 seconds it takes to put the tool in the jig?

I just don't get it. I can change channels on the TV without the remote, but I see no real need to do that either.

it's to sharpen things that don't fit in jigs, to sharpen in ways not convenient in jigs (high amounts of camber), to use more of the stone, to not have to find the jig, to not have to get rust off of the wheel of the jig or grit out of the wheel on the jig, etc. Lots of reasons.

Though using a jig is perfectly acceptable, especially if you are intending to get something extremely precise from it (like charlesworth's measured method of getting just enough camber to never see a track on a finished surface).

[Jim Matthews]

Funny you brought that up...because I very well may shoot myself before this is over. :D

You do need to keep the cleaning kits and sharpening bits separated.
They're of little utility in alternate applications.

[Jim Matthews]

I don't know what steel is in your chisels or plane irons, and that's worth consideration.

I traded off a set of Blue Spruce chisels that were nearly impossible to hone free-hand.
I can get a dull factory ground Marples from unusable to paring endgrain in about ten minutes.

It bears mentioning that freehand methods require considerable force be applied,
and can easily gouge a softer material as exemplified by Shapton stones.

DAMHIKT

The height of the bench is important, you want to engage larger muscle groups
as it's strenuous, and the angle imparted depends on that height as well.

I've seen some get great results freehand honing on the floor, but my knees won't tolerate this position.

I recommend the Atoma #140, #1000 and a strop with Chromium oxide to start out.

I like the Diamond plates because they don't require flattening before use, and can
be lubricated with light oil. I didn't like the mess from waterstones.

So, to recap - what steel will you be honing?

[Harold Burrell]

So, to recap - what steel will you be honing?

Mostly O1 and old plane irons and chisels (although I do have some A2 and one PMV-11).

[Steve Voigt]

Jim, I don't agree that freehand methods per se require a great deal of downforce; I think that's just a characteristic of the technique Sellers espouses. Riding the hollow, as Harold is talking about, is more of a finesse technique and works just fine on soft stones. On narrow or curved tools, one can avoid the problem of digging in by exerting force primarily on the pull stroke.

[Brian Holcombe]

I freehand A2 regularly and I don't find it to be particularly difficult. I start with a 1k whetstone and move up to a 6k stone. For regular maintenance I use a 6k stone, then a couple quick swipes on a makeshift strop.

Seller's method is fine, however, I would not get overaggressive with raising the blade to make the burr. This works beautifully until it doesn't and then you have to regrind the bevel, so if you do the majority of the honing on the major bevel and lift if for a few strokes to get the wire edge it will take a very long time before you have to regrind the bevel.

[Jim Matthews]

By way of clarification - I don't use a hollow grind.

I'm making a convex bevel on my plane irons and chisels.
The objective is to raise a burr, quickly.

Downforce is a component of this, and the "cutting" stroke is in the forward direction.

Using a guide, force was imparted while drawing the steel backward
not in the forward direction.

F=MA

If the spinning wheel is removed, you can impart the same force either
by moving the steel quickly over the plate, pressing harder or both.

[Winton Applegate]

or you need professional help.

As I said takes one to know . . .
what one is going through.

I had professional help once; the poor person acted very disturbed after we had, what I thought was, a rather plesant chat and asked me if I would please go away. I asked if there were any other of her colleges who might want to visit with me and she said certainly not.

Not sure what all that was about but soon after I took up hand tool wood working and felt right as rain.
. . .
. . .er . . what were we talking about . . .
:p

[Winton Applegate]

Jigs and water stones do not get along. At least the jigs that want to ride on the stone.

Really . . .

I have been sharpening with a jig on water stones now for more than ten years and have not had any problems. Always with a jig with a roller of some sort that runs on top of the stone.

I must be doing it wrong.
Maybe with your coaching I too can begin to see the errors of the water stone way.

Now granted this first photo is on a diamond plate but I am using water.
I do the same on the water stones, see second photo.

I put the blade in the jig, put the jig and blade on the stone, pull the blade and jig down the stone, lift and repeat.

I know I am missing an important “technique” here. What do you think ?

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/IMG_0203.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/IMG_0203.jpg.html)


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/Dazzling_zpsf0fdbd9a.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/Dazzling_zpsf0fdbd9a.jpg.html)

By the way the above photo shows the “mess” of using water stones. I seem to be failing there as well. I am just not getting the full message that I should be.

How can I get on top of this aspect as well (so to speak) ?