Track saw or jointer for small shop?

[Mark Clemmens]

I recently started a small woodworking business, mostly furniture at the moment (tables, benches, chairs, dressers, etc), and my shop machines currently consists of:

10" table saw

17" bandsaw

15" planer w/ spiral cutterhead

+ a ton of hand tools (saws, planes, chisels, etc) and a bunch of other power tools (sanders, drills / drivers, routers, etc)


So a little background to help inform any replies, I've only been wookworking (seriously) for about a year, and have up until the past week been working out of my friends shop where he has all of the machines you could ever want, but it's time to work in my own space. I do however work 6-7 days a week, probably around 80-100 hours a week. My degree is in architecture, so I have a strong design background, I love making jigs, and I'm very familiar with building in general. I buy / borrow every woodworking book I can find, spend countless hours on youtube, etc, so although I lack formal training, I feel very confident in my woodworking abilities. Having said that, I do learn a lot each day, and I keep a log of all of my progress / ideas, techniques, process, etc. I have a very close family friend / relative who ran a huge cabinet shop operation most of his career, and he works with me when he can; he's kind of my personal consultant.

So anyway, the reason I'm posting is because up until last week I did most of my jointing with hand planes and / or a router, however I have recently invested most of my money into the machines I listed above. I couldn't afford a jointer, and as I'm very confident with hand planes I chose to continue that route until I have some funds. I have a planing jig, so that I can face joint boards before running them through the thickness planer. Now that I have a little bit of money coming in however, I'm wondering if a jointer is the best place to spend what little available funds I have. I also would love the ability to break down sheet goods with extreme accuracy, and I don't feel that the table saw is the best tool for this; too much room for slight error in handing large sheets; plus I don't have long rails. I am considering the idea of investing in a track saw, either festool or makita, to be able to process sheet goods as well as for jointing lumber.

My question is, given my situation and my current need to breakdown sheet goods and put a straight edge on lumber, would it be better to invest in a jointer or a track saw? Given my background, I have an obsessive desire for accuracy in everything that I do. I walk around with my starret square most of the day, and I never pass up the opportunity to work to the tightest tolerance I can, because that is very important to me; I have found over the years that it is much more effective to work in this manner than to fix error at the end of the process. This is one reason I am leaning towards the festool track saw. While I don't appreciate the fact that they charge absurd amounts of money for accessories and such, they do seem to have impeccable accuracy and design in their tools, and I have a lot of respect for that. I guess it does warrant their prices. The tracksaw (~ $615) + the long guide rail (~ $300), will end up running me around $1000, while the jointer I'm looking at (grizzly w/ spiral cutterhead) will run me about $1500. I realize I could get a straight knife jointer for much less, but in my experience spiral cutterheads are far superior, and I would never go back to straight knives. What I'm concerned about with the track saw is having the ability to quickly and easily joint small, especially thin lumber. I'm sure I could design some kind of jig for this, as well as crosscutting (I don't have a miter saw), but again that is more time and work. I would love to hear from people who use their track saw as a jointer.

I apologize in advance for the length of this post, I'm just trying to get the facts out there so I can hear some solid responses. Thanks,

Mark

[Myk Rian]

You say "tables, benches, chairs, dressers, etc" which don't require sheet goods (for the most part), or a track saw.
Get an 8" jointer.

[Justin Ludwig]

Only time I use my track saw is at the job site to break down sheets for closets and such. Take that for what it's worth. I build cabinets, closets, and do trim work. If I have to straight line something in the shop I use a jig on the TS as I don't own a jointer.

Break it down and do a cost analysis. Which tool would pay for itself the quickest? And that depends entirely on the type of goods you're producing. The one that pays off the fastest creates the income to buy the other tool faster. My 2 pennies...

[Mark Clemmens]

You say "tables, benches, chairs, dressers, etc" which don't require sheet goods (for the most part), or a track saw.
Get an 8" jointer.

Thank you for the quick response.

I've been building a lot of drawers lately, and I build a lot of jigs that utilize plywood, MDF, acrylic, etc, so while I don't really build cabinets at the moment I do use sheet goods often; plus I plan on working with sheet goods much more in the near future. By benches, I was also referring to custom booths, etc.

In my experience, running anything longer than 6' through a jointer just doesn't "feel" like the best way to be doing it; it clearly works, I just think that a track saw might put a perfectly straight edge on a board quicker than fiddling with long boards on a jointer.

I also should have specified that I work in a small area, less than 400sf, so another machine just means less floor space to work with.

Mark

[Matt Day]

A jointer and a track saw are two totally different machines.

Do you work with all sheet goods?

Any kind of rough stock requires a jointer or at minimum a planer sled.

My shop is about 300sf and I've got an 8" jointer - I couldn't start a project without it. Seems like a no brainer choice to me.

[Sam Murdoch]

For breaking down sheet goods I am completely sold on the track saw. Been doing this woodworking stuff for a long time and the track saw has changed the way I work with sheet goods - all for the better!!!!! My advice in this regard is to buy a TS55 and as big a CT as you can afford and 2 of the 1400/2 rails with connectors and clamps.

I suggest the 2 rails rather than the one long one because it really is a versatile option. The size is good for cross cuts of sheet goods and I am one who has never had any issues connecting rails together to make longer rails. The secret to success with this is that you work off a FLAT surface - not between 2 sawhorses with a few 2x4s for support. The cost is better, transportation and/or storage is easier, and the versatility is greatly enhanced with 2 rather than 1 rail. Later you can buy a few shorter rails and eventually the long rail but that is something you can grow into as money comes in. In any event you will want to buy more rails in time.

NOW - having written all that - a track saw is not a jointer. Yes, it will give you a straight edge. The work you describe - "What I'm concerned about with the track saw is having the ability to quickly and easily joint small, especially thin lumber." is not served well with a track saw. If you need to build "jigs" it would be much easier to build jigs for the TS or the bandsaw to joint "small, especially thin lumber". Buy your rough lumber dressed 2 sides and ripped one edge and you will at least have a nearly straight edge with which to start breaking down lumber parts.

NOW part 2 - Considering "Given my background, I have an obsessive desire for accuracy in everything that I do. I walk around with my starret square most of the day, and I never pass up the opportunity to work to the tightest tolerance I can, because that is very important to me" All of these options will give less than satisfactory results. To me a jointer is an essential shop tool. I'd give up the TS or bandsaw (one or the other - not both) in favor of a jointer.

[Mike Cutler]

Mark

I have a Festool TS-75, which is a beautiful little saw to own and very convenient, but nothing beats a tablesaw and a jointer for speed and repeatability.
The Festool,at least in my case, is used primarily for safety purposes. My lower back can't hump sheets of plywood through a tablesaw any longer so it's a lot easier to break down them to mangaeable sizes and then run it through the tablesaw.
I haven't yet got a perfect straight line rip from my TS 75 in solid lumber. Close, very close, but not perfect. The edge still needs to be run through the jointer, or tablesaw.
I think that your overlooking one very important aspect opf a jointer,a nd that is to establish one side flat prior to going through the planer. Once agin, speed and repeatablity. If you're going to be making furniture, the jointer is a machine that you will need.
One more thing is that long before tracksaws were being sold as a purpose specific "set", people were making their own. They're not difficult to make. Heavy and clumsy at times, but they worked. Point being that you can make a edge guide of your own, for just about any circular saw.

[Erik Christensen]

I have both and if I had to give up one I would dump the jointer and keep the track saw. if you get the festool keep in mind the fact that other tools can use that track - having a rail guided router lets you do things easily that are a challenge with other tooling - things like stopped dado's in the middle of a panel, adding a few thousands to the width or depth of an existing dado, etc. - you have hand planes so if you got a tracksaw and needed to to edge joint a board you would use the saw to get a straight edge and a pass or 2 with the plane to remove saw marks -done. with a planer sled to face joint I think you have all your needs covered.

not quite as convenient as a spiral head jointer but the track saw & rail does so much more that for a small shop I think you would be better off with the saw to start - my 2 cents

[paul cottingham]

Seriously, if I was to start over, I would replace my table saw with a (gasp) Festool track saw and dust collector. Great for long rips, and no dust. I crosscut everything pretty much by hand. Anything really wide, well, that's what the track saw is for. I would also buy a good power planer. And a good bandsaw. Maybe (ala Schwarz) a power mortiser as well. That takes care of all the drudge work that no one notices anyways. A jointer would follow, but it would be a distant purchase.
The rest of my money would go in to quality hand tools, either new or used.

[Peter Quinn]

Get the jointer. Get the big one. It's about making right angles, the track saw isn't going to do that for you. You can make a shop made jig and use a $78 skill saw to break sheet stock until money tree blooms.....or you can spend days with hand tools doing what a good jointer will do in minutes.

[Don Welch]

Jointer - preferably used European over Asian no matter the head type on the Asian machine; search for an insert knife type if at all within your target range. Consider selling the planer to finance a J/P combo machine. I don't intend this harshly at all, but w/o a jointer, the planer really isn't an effective asset - you need one flat surface to start the planer feed. Perhaps you're achieving this starter point w/ hand planes, but that's a long path to get there for even a start-up business. you

[Mark Clemmens]

Jointer - preferably used European over Asian no matter the head type on the Asian machine; search for an insert knife type if at all within your target range. Consider selling the planer to finance a J/P combo machine. I don't intend this harshly at all, but w/o a jointer, the planer really isn't an effective asset - you need one flat surface to start the planer feed. Perhaps you're achieving this starter point w/ hand planes, but that's a long path to get there for even a start-up business. you


I built a planer sled which uses wedges to hold the board stable, run that through the planer, then reference the flat face throuh the planer again, without the sled. Works great, just slower. This way I can work with s2s or even totally rough lumber.

Honestly, sometimes I think using the planer sled is EASIER and faster than face jointing a long board.

[Mark Wooden]

Get a jointer and a good one. You can break down sheet goods like Peter said, did that for years and sometimes still do. A jointer isn't just about straight edges, it's about accurate , flat and square stock

A bandsaw was about my next to last essential shop tool. Jointer was my second after a table saw

[Rich Engelhardt]

I'm constantly finding new uses for my Festool TS55EQ track saw.
The sheer versatility of that tool is amazing, to say nothing of the fabulous dust control, accuracy and quality of cut.

To compare a shop made guide to a top shelf track saw is like saying you can use a 2x4 clamped to the top of your table saw as a fence.

[glenn bradley]

while I don't really build cabinets at the moment I do use sheet goods often; plus I plan on working with sheet goods much more in the near future.

My knee-jerk reaction was toward the jointer but, we all tend to base our responses on what we do. Reading this and understanding a little bit what you are going to do, I would say track saw. All that being said, I breakdown sheet material with a shop made guide and use the tablesaw to make accurate parts when I work with sheet goods but, that is a rare activity.

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A jointer is one of the first steps in milling material in my shop where I use solid woods that I acquire is various semi-rough forms so, I wouldn't be without one. Working with sheet goods takes space so anything taking up my work space would have to pay it's way. My 8" jointer would find little use if I were not making solid wood items and it takes up a hefty foot print that could be used for other purposes.

[Andrew Gold]

I suspect if you're going to keep at woodworking you'll end up with both machines before too long.

Buy whichever makes more sense for your next few projects, then purchase the other.

[Mark Clemmens]

I'm constantly finding new uses for my Festool TS55EQ track saw.
The sheer versatility of that tool is amazing, to say nothing of the fabulous dust control, accuracy and quality of cut.

To compare a shop made guide to a top shelf track saw is like saying you can use a 2x4 clamped to the top of your table saw as a fence.


Rich, I would love to hear what other applications you use your track saw for that you didn't originally intend on. When it comes down to it, it is obviously beneficial to have a jointer, however I'm trying to determine which will serve my general purpose best for the next couple months. I'm currently leaning towards the jointer, because I like to work with really rough lumber, resaw, etc, but the versatility and accuracy (+excellent dust collection) of a track saw is very intriguing to me.

Considering I do have a planer and a sled, and with the addition of a tablesaw jointing jig +/or router and a straight edge, I can currently produce square lumber; so the idea of being able to add a track saw into the mix could also be a very useful tool.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Boy - where do I start..
That's really a tough question to answer because there's so many of those nagging tough jobs that come up that the track saw is a natural answer to.

(I swore that one day I'd start making a comment in one of the many "How do I make this cut" threads so I could easily post a link to every thread.
I started to once, but, someone here took it the wrong way & slapped me down for "bragging" about having a Festool track saw.)

Obviously, plunge cuts are one such cut. While that type of cut isn't common, when it's needed, it's really needed. I do home rehabs and run into plunge cuts more than the average person. But - even for the average person wanting to repair a hardwood floor for example, that one time can be a real blessing.
Taper cuts are another place a track saw makes a bit of a tricky situation mindlessly simple.
Actually, any time you need an exact, precise and dead straight cut from point "A" to point "B", a track saw makes it mindlessly simple.

Ah - here's another one I just thought of. I have to reshingle my tool shed. There's some very minor water damage to the sheathing. I need to either tear off half the roof and remove a full section of 4x8 OSB - or - make an exactly dead straight 12" wide cut the whole width of the roof, cut a brand new exactly 12" wide by 10' patch to go in there.
Sure, I could use any circular saw and make some type of guide to cut off the old sheathing - but - it wouldn't be an exact 12" wide and it wouldn't be a dead straight (factory type) edge.
W/the track saw - mindless. I just lay the tracks own and make the cut. Perfect.

I'm sure there's a whole lot more. I've lost count of the number of times I've read a post and thought to myself "If you had a track saw, we wouldn't be having this conversation. You'd have already made that "difficult cut that has you stumped" as if it was some common every day occurrence instead of somewhat of a show stopper."

If you haven't already, you might want to go over to he FOG - Festool Owner's Group forum and browse through there.
They have tons of posts of "off beat" uses of a track saw.
One thing to keep in mind about the Festool - - it's a small part of a larger overall system.
Nearly everything Festool makes is made to fit together with all of their other products.

For a non- Festool track saw, you can head over to Eurekazone and check out all the uses for the EZ system.
The EZ system is similar to the Festool in that it's not just one track saw, the track saw is one part of a larger system.
W/the EZ though, the individual parts aren't made by the same company.

[Bill McNiel]

Mark,
Great question, and liable to raise a few hackles around here as there are those who are adamant pro/con on Festool. Your review of the Festool "value" is in line with my own, really well designed and produced but way over priced. Like you my background is in architecture (I am "Registered") and construction and have been working with wood in a variety of shops for over 50 years. I have a 6" jointer and 12" planner combo in my shop.

My recomendation is to get the TS 55 REQ with 55" holey guide and and the 75" guide rail, I've had no issues with combining the two and achieving a dead straight edge. This will provide you with the most versitility for breaking down sheet goods, rough material and a mutitude of other tasks. Someday you may add the 1400 router and then the "holey" rail will pay added dividends. Yes, the TS 55 does a really good job of edge jointing. I recently used it to joint six 6'-3" long 5/4 mahagony boards for a comissioned desk top, much faster than a jointer, also jointed 8/4 Wenge for a dining table and 9' long 7/4, 100 year old fir for yet another dining table. I have used it to trim 1/16" to 0" skew cuts on face frames, try that with any other power tool. Combined with a MFT top and quas dogs one can create a really accurate cutoff setup. I have also used it for long miters in counter tops as well as long tapers.

Two factors you should be considering are;
1) Versatility - the TS adds another dimension to your shop and techniques. Remember there are always many ways to skin a cat or build a project.
2) Big/little as in...tools go to big pieces and little pieces go to tools (example-when dadoing long cabinet sides for shelves, etc. it is easier and more accurate to use a router with guide vs table saw and sled, IMHO).

A sled for your planer, a router sled or hand planing will certainly take care of the surfacing requirements but are marginally more time consuming than a wide jointer.

Good luck and welcome to the Creek, the ultimate in diverse woodworking opinions.

[Andrew Joiner]

Honestly, sometimes I think using the planer sled is EASIER and faster than face jointing a long board.
Mark, You and I think alike. Search some of my sled posts here. I straightline rip all my rough lumber on the tablesaw with sled/jigs. My favorite is 8" long and has adjustable support blocks. It provides a straight edge for the crooked edge to mate to and slide against the fence. On long stock it's faster and less effort than a jointer.

[Mark Clemmens]

Rich, thank you for the info and the insight on the EZ system, I'll have to do sone research.

Bill, I appreciate your response and considering your background, I'd love you talk to you about a few other things.

I had another thought recently also that I thought I'd mention. My thesis year in architecture school I studied Japanese Architecture pretty heavily, especially joinery systems, which subsequently led me into woodworking. One of my books had a description of a planing beam that Japanese carpenters would erect while they worked on site, it was basically the equivalent of a 4x4 set up on short post at one end, sloping downwards to the other end where it would rest against the wall. Long story short, I built my own version which is essentially a main beam built up of (5) 2x10s bolted together, resting upon two posts of the same construction and of equal height at each end, each of which having one large mortise and tenon. One end has a sliding dovetail across the width of the beam with a matching insert which functions basically as a bench dog for planing. I still use this as my workbench, and it works great. I can clamp to it along the whole length if I need to, sit on it to do chisel work, even at times attach a larger surface to the beam itself if I need a wider space.

What I'm considering doing is attaching a 10' long flat piece of aluminum to the side, making sure everything is perfectly square, and then using this for edge jointing. I would lay the board on the planing beam, and then run a router with a flush trim bit along the face of the board with the bearing running along the strip of aluminum to reference a straight edge. The main issue I see is mounting this piece of aluminum perfectly straight (parallel to the beam) in plan. Also, theyes the issue of bit length, but it could also be followed up on the other face with the same flush trim bit.

[mreza Salav]

I have a track saw (TS75) with short and long tracks. Have used it extensively for sheet goods as well as solid wood. I am one of the odd ones who says this tools is way rated (maybe because I heard so many nice things about it before owning one). It is a good tool and it excels at breaking down sheet goods but there is no way (absolutely no way) I'd give up my table saw for it. In fact, I would take a contractor saw over this.
Jointer vs Tracksaw, it's a clear choice to me that as a furniture maker you need a jointer. Tracksaw is nice to have to break down sheet goods but you can do the same with a circular saw and a clamp ruler and clean up the rest on table saw.

[Cary Falk]

I have gone without a tracksaw for many years. A jointer was one of the first tools I purchased. I probably wouldn't have purchased the tracksaw if I didn't get a great deal on a DeWalt. A tracksaw is great for breaking down plywood and I have used it for putting a straight edge on some rough lumber that was really bowed. Truth be told though, I ran the boards through the Jointer after the tracksaw. My choice would be a jointer because I use mine all the time. The tracksaw, not so much. I only have $350 in my saww/couple of tracks and $900 in my 8" jointer w/spiral head. For you it sounds like a tracksaw might be a good option given you are going to do a lot of work with plywood and you can use hand planes. I hate them with a passion.

[Jason White]

I have both a jointer and a Festool track saw and wouldn't be without both.

You can rip a straight edge with the tracksaw, but you'll need a jointer to square up two sides or take the cup or twist out of a board (unless you use a special sled in your planer, which can be a pain in the butt).

[lowell holmes]

You can also make a simple plywood jig that you clamp to the piece being cut. You use a 7 1/2" circular saw and edge of the jig defines the cut line. I have 3 or 4 of them.
I have a very good blade in my PC saw that leaves a finished surface.

I made my jigs out of 3/8" plywood. !/4" plywood would do. I have one for my PC trim saw that is made with 1/4".

I would like to have a track saw, but then I would have to store it when not being used and I really don't need one.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Mark,
Make sure you weigh all the factors of each system before you decide.
I looked at both the EZ and the Festool and went w/the Festool simply because I could go to Hartville Hardware and look it over in person.
(one nice side benefit of a Festool is - heaven forbid you have to sell it, anything Festool holds it's value extremely well AND sells almost instantly)

Makita and DeWalt also make good track saws - but - they are mostly just a stand alone tool.
While they will deliver the same degree of quality and accuracy, that's all they do.
They aren't designed to interact with any other tools.

As far as getting a jointer goes....IMHO, I believe the others are on the right track in saying get one that's the biggest you can afford.

[Mark Wooden]

I built a planer sled which uses wedges to hold the board stable, run that through the planer, then reference the flat face throuh the planer again, without the sled. Works great, just slower. This way I can work with s2s or even totally rough lumber.

Honestly, sometimes I think using the planer sled is EASIER and faster than face jointing a long board.

For flattening short stock ( > 5'), eh, easier maybe as it takes a little less 'umph' than passing it over a jointer. Faster? Probably not.


To compare a shop made guide to a top shelf track saw is like saying you can use a 2x4 clamped to the top of your table saw as a fence.

Well, joint the tubafour and you've got an accurate fence.


What I'm considering doing is attaching a 10' long flat piece of aluminum to the side, making sure everything is perfectly square, and then using this for edge jointing. I would lay the board on the planing beam, and then run a router with a flush trim bit along the face of the board with the bearing running along the strip of aluminum to reference a straight edge. The main issue I see is mounting this piece of aluminum perfectly straight (parallel to the beam) in plan. Also, theyes the issue of bit length, but it could also be followed up on the other face with the same flush trim bit.

I'm reminded of what Tage Frid once said to a student (paraphrasing here)-" Congratulations! You've figured out the most complicated way to do it!". Seriously,with no disrespect intended, don't over think it. A single, mobile machine, whether track saw or jointer, would save you dedicated floor area and do much more.

Again, I'd lean to the jointer because it can produce finished surfaces. But there are many merits to the track saw as pointed out, biggest might be space saving because you can hang it up.

[Jared Sankovich]

Makita and DeWalt also make good track saws - but - they are mostly just a stand alone tool.
While they will deliver the same degree of quality and accuracy, that's all they do.
They aren't designed to interact with any other tools.


IMHO That's one of the big pluses of the Makita (over the DeWalt.) The Makita track is the same as the festool so all the accessories work on it (even the makita "systainer" locks into a festool stack)

Regarding the OP's question on track saw vs jointer, as previously mentioned you will eventual want both. I bought my Makita specifically to have a easy way to make 8' rips in sheet goods.

[johnny means]

Track saws are relatively uncommon in professional shops. Very few of my colleagues had even heard of one before seeing mine. On the other hand, the jointer is pretty much standard equipment in any shop working with solid lumber. I think the key here is that your looking to do this for money. How are you going to be competitive if it takes you hours to do what the next guy can do in minutes?

Also, your wrong about a tracksaw being faster than a jointer. Unlike a tracksaw, a jointer doesn't require a fresh setup for every single cut. Try edging eighty lengths of face frame stock and 20 panel glue ups with a track saw. Probably an all day endeavor. Minutes on a jointer. I haven't even mentioned jointing tasks that can't be done with a track saw. Milling lumber is something that even well equipped shops prefer to farm out because usually someone can do it faster and cheaper. The thought of hand planes and planer sleds being used for routine tasks in a commercial shop is almost laughable.

As much as I love SMC, I must say this may be the wrong forum to be asking about how to go about WWing as a profession. For me the main draw of this forum is the passion for woodworking as an art and hobby that's untainted by profit motives. There are better forums for the jaded truth about how to go about this professionally.

[Harold Burrell]

IMHO...

A jointer. No question.

A track saw is cool, but a jointer is a necessity.

[Tom M King]

I was going to say exactly what posts #s 29 and 30 said. Don't want to, and can't be without a jointer.

[Matt Day]

Since it sounds like the OP uses a planer sled to joint boards, is the question really "what should I buy next, a jointer or track saw?"

If you're happy with your planer sled, maybe you can hold off on a jointer, but I tried the planer sled thing for a while and it was not for me. I heard about people who've tried every fancy magazine sled and still got subpar results. Again, if it were me I'd buy a jointer for sure. A track saw is nice I'm sure, but a jointer is a foundation of furniture making.

[Robert Parent]

I use my jointer all the time. The table saw is my most used stationary tool followed by the jointer then the planer. Get one with the longest bed you can fit into your shop. Once setup correctly, you will be amazed at how easy it is to make parts that fit together with little effort.

Robert

[Kyle VanMeter]

the jointer I'm looking at (grizzly w/ spiral cutterhead) will run me about $1500.

Mark

Mark,

I would not rule out the used machine market for a jointer. The older US manufactured machinery (Delta, Powermatic, Oliver, etc.) show up fairly regularly on the classified websites and can be a great value. I also really like many of the European jointers from the late 80's on, which show up used from time to time. And if you are set on a spiral head, Byrd makes retrofit heads for most stock machines that are very easy to install.

Spiral heads are definitely nice, but starting out it would be very hard to cost justify one. Unless you work a lot of curly/birdseye/quilted/gnarly/interlocked grained woods or tropical woods that are like machining sand, you should not NEED a spiral carbide head. They are nice, but are they necessary for the work you will be doing?

When edge and face jointing most lumber, you can learn to read the "slope" of the grain and feed the stock in the correct direction, which will greatly reduce/eliminate tear-out.


Kyle VanMeter

[John TenEyck]

As Johnny said, every pro shop handling solid wood has and uses a jointer. It has stood the test of time for good reason - nothing's faster or better or more versatile at what it does. Of course there are alternatives, but those are for hobbiests, contrariens (sp), or just plain ignorant people. So, which are you? None? OK, then you need a jointer. If you plan to handle any amount of solid stock you need a jointer if you want to be efficient at it. Some guys market themselves as custom furniture makers that use only hand tools, but that doesn't sound like what you are doing, so get a jointer. As for whether or not a spiral head is better, I don't buy it unless you use mostly highly figured wood. Personally, I'd get an old American or Canadian machine, like mentioned above, the biggest one I could find/afford. Alternatively, I'd get a J/P combo machine and get rid of your current planer. That would justify the spiral head and keep the total footprint about the same as you now have.

Get a jointer and leave the hand planes for fineese work. You'll earn money faster and be able to buy that green Kool-Aide tracksaw before you know it.

John

[Loren Woirhaye]

For furniture, jointer.

Are you going to flatten boards and cut leg tapers by hand?

A track saw is a luxury. It's faster than the old way of measuring the offset of a circular saw base and clamping a straight edge to a sheet, but really no substitute for a jointer and if you expect clean glue joints off a track saw you'll be disappointed. Straightlining can be done on the table saw with some primitive fixtures or by snapping a line and band sawing to it. Then the board edge goes on the jointer.

[Jim German]

I'm probably just repeating what most other folks have said, but I'd go with the jointer hands down.

I've got a small basement shop, and have both the Festool saw and an 8" grizzly sprial jointer. I do use the saw all the time, but I could do without it, either using the table saw for smaller pieces or a regular circular saw and an edge guide. A regular circular saw with an edge guide is almost as accurate as the Festool saw and you could clean up the cut in a jointer.

I've also been rather dissapointed in the accuracy of the Festool saw. I've had a hard time making perfectly square cuts with it. I frequently find that on a 4' cut I'm out of square by a noticeable amount.

[Mark Clemmens]

So I've given it some thought, I will purchase the jointer first. In the mean time, I was planning on building a simple jointing jig for the table saw using a long piece of plywood about 12" wide which the board would sit on and be trimmed at the edge. I thought I might make a simple fence on it to hook over the table saw fence in order to avoid having to guide this whole setup along the table saw fence each time.

And then I came across this:

http://download.plansnow.com/plansnow-tablesaw-jointing.pdf

This jig seems like an excellent idea, have any of you guys tried this setup?

Mark

[Bill Adamsen]

Mark:

Very interesting discussion. Someday I will replace my slider with a track saw, maybe. The jointer I can't envision living without.

For what it's worth, I have a friend that has been doing woodwork including boatbuilding - some of the most beautiful I've ever seen - for 30+ years and has no jointer, rarely (if ever) uses a planer, and his big 80 year old 16" TS - which gets used a lot - is fixed at 90°. He processes a lot of sheet goods. So yes, there are many ways to work.