Trotec VS. Universal

[Alice Labaton]

Hey guys,
I'm new to Sawmillcreek and been reading up on co2 laser engraving machines.
My use for the engraving machine would be very simple -- I engrave names and sayings on the handles of makeup brushes mymakeupbrushesdotcom. I have an engraving company on staff at the moment but due to increase of size am looking to bring the engraving in house.
I've done my fair share of research on Epilog, Universal, Trotec and Gravograph. Only had demos on the Epilog and Universal lasers.
As of now, I think I narrowed down my choices to Universal and Trotec as they seem to be the leading providers and from what I can tell the job control is an important factor (how important to my business, I'm not too sure).
I was looking into the RayJet 50- 30 Watt and the Speedy 300 from Trotec. From Universal VLS 2.30- 30 Watt.
Aside from pricing, right now I am leaning towards Universal because they have a local sales rep that is willing to service it past the 2 yrs.
For what i do, i think all will suit my needs but just wanted to get feedback on differences between the 2.
For spare parts, are they all pretty similar? pricing...? Is it a generic piece or something that you would have to purchase from the company themselves?
Also, I'm located in NY but the nearest show isnt until September. There is a show in Indianapolis mid June, any idea if I'd be able to purchase a unit over the phone or do I have to be there in person in order to get the show special?
Is the show pricing really that much better?

[Mike Null]

Alice

welcome to SMC. I am pretty sure you can get the show prices even if you can't attend. But you'll probably have to insist on it.

We do not permit linking to one's own site so I have disabled your link. You have an interesting concept.

[Dan Hintz]

Make sure that your "sales rep" is actually technically inclined... otherwise, he'll either call in a tech to do the actual work or just send you parts to do it yourself. In both of those cases, the closeness of the guy is irrelevant. In the several years I owned a ULS machine, I dealt with tech support only a few times, and never once did I have someone come out to do any work. Help was easiest via phone/email. Just bear that in mind when considering the need to choose a local company over one farther away. For high throughput, I would lean more towards the Trotec.

[Alice Labaton]

Thanks Mike, sorry about that, didnt mean to link to my site...

[Alice Labaton]

Thanks Dan! Being that you owned an ULS (by high throughput do you mean the job control?) and looks like a Trotec, for smaller jobs which would you recommend?

[Scott Shepherd]

Being we own both brands, I'd say both will do what you want to do. The cost to maintain the Universal is a little higher (it needs bearings, belts, etc. every so often). The Universal is a little easier to use, but the Trotec is more powerful in it's abilities. Speed wise, if you're marking a lot of them, then I'd go with the Trotec for sure. If you're marking smaller quantities, then I'd pick the one you like the most. I love both our Universal and Trotec. Each one has something special I like about it. Both have been outstanding machines.

[Alice Labaton]

Thanks for the feedback Scott! If I were to go with the trotec, do you happen to know the differences between the Rayjet 50 and the Speedy 300?
Can I go with the Rayjet 50 or is it that big of a difference?

[Dan Hintz]

Thanks for the feedback Scott! If I were to go with the trotec, do you happen to know the differences between the Rayjet 50 and the Speedy 300?

Verify this, but off of the top of my head one main difference is speed... I don't believe the 50 is rated at the same speed as the 300. Again, if we're talking large production numbers, speed is your friend.

[Scott Shepherd]

The Rayjet uses different software. It's all very basic and user friendly and it doesn't give you a lot of control over much of anything, other than speed and power from what I saw. I've only seen it in person 1 time and that was about 3 weeks ago at a show. It's like a menu system that walks you through each job. It doesn't have the options on it that the Speedy series does. Some can be added, some can't. I don't believe you can put the Job Control (JCX) on a Rayjet, but I could be wrong about that. It's slower, but honestly, the engraving stroke (distance) you engrave on a brush is small, so chances are, if you're doing 1 brush, it's never going to reach full speed anyway.

The Speedy is the top of the line model, the Rayjet is the lower entry level system. Either would do what you posted. It would just depend on how many you plan to do. If you plan on doing a very high volume of them, I'd go with the Speedy. If you plan on doing small runs, like 10-100 of them, then it probably doesn't make much sense to buy the Speedy.

Robert Tepper (I think that's right, I'm doing this from memory) is on this forum and he's a Rayjet owner. Search him out and talk to him, he can tell you more about the Rayjet than I can.

[Mike Null]

Plus the difference in software. Job Control is awesome on the Speedy 300.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I'd probably go with a Galvo to be honest if the numbers justify the speed. For just engraving not much will compete with a Galvo and 12,000mm per second.

cheers

Dave

[Alice Labaton]

Thanks so much, i just pm-ed Robert :)

[matthew knott]

Looking at you website if i was you i would seriously consider a UV printer, you can directly print color straight onto your product, also you would be able to print the brush cases plus other items, no engraving then paint filling. In fact i really need to look at getting one of these, i have way to many lasers :) Something like this is on my wish list
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch1dDZ_tC_4

[Scott Shepherd]

Looking at you website if i was you i would seriously consider a UV printer, you can directly print color straight onto your product, also you would be able to print the brush cases plus other items, no engraving then paint filling. In fact i really need to look at getting one of these, i have way to many lasers :) Something like this is on my wish list
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch1dDZ_tC_4

Heck, not even that. A pad printer would do a nice job on that for $1,500 for the entire kit.

[matthew knott]

Pad printer is useless in this case as she needs to change the print for each batch meaning a new cliche evey time, it they where all the same design it would be ideal!

[Dave Sheldrake]

Got me sold Matt, I'm off to get me a UV printer ;)

cheers

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

I think at the last NBM show they had a "personal" sized UV printer for around $20k... I grabbed some literature, but I can't seem to find it. I'll keep digging.

EDIT: It's the Versa UV LEF-12

[matthew knott]

That's made by Roland I think Dan. I would have one at $20k, that's a very good price indeed. You can do some amazing things with these printers, shame there is not an equivalent of the cheapo Chinese laser where you can get 80% of the function for 25% of the price, but I bet it's coming! I know the Chinese make direct uv printers but my guess is they are still prices in the low $20k region.

[Robert Tepper]

Hello Alice, I just sent you a private message.

Robert

[Alice Labaton]

Thank you all for your input, really helped me narrow it down... I officially put a deposit down on a new Trotec RayJet 50. Should be receiving in about a months time and will keep updated on how it works!

[Dan Kozakewycz]

I had a lengthy demo on the RayJet with the Commander software.

With the Speedy series and Job Control, you can direct the laser pointer to a point on the object and have it engrave relative to that point. On the Rayjet, you can't do this, you have to place the object accurately and have the graphics file setup so that it engraves in the right place. For my work, it was actually perfectly adequate as I was effectively printing full A3 size designs, but I can imagine it would make your products more difficult to do.

There's quite a jump between the Rayjet and Speedy300, had you looked at the Speedy 100? I ended up upgrading my Rayjet order to the Speedy 100 but the 300 was well out of budget!

[Robert Tepper]

Congratulations on your investment.

Roberrt

[Matt Geraci]

Thank you all for your input, really helped me narrow it down... I officially put a deposit down on a new Trotec RayJet 50. Should be receiving in about a months time and will keep updated on how it works!

Would love to hear how it's going with the new addition. I'm searching for a laser now. Your idea is great. Keep hammering it out!

[Jeffrey Dewing]

Before I bought my speedy 300 I went to Integrity Laser and worked with the Rayjet for a day, and with the Speedy 300 for a few days. The Ratjet is a great machine but doesn't have the job control. For me it was a no brainer. I think they will both do what you want, but I also think you will miss job control. There are many very handy things in job control. I would call Trotec up and talk to their teck advisers. Welcome to Sawmill!