Speedy 100 30w metal tube vs 40w ceramic tube.

[Dan Kozakewycz]

After a recent change in circumstance I've been able to add a bit to my budget for the crowdfunded Rayjet 50 and I am now considering changing my order to one of the Speedy 100 machines.

I was looking at the 30w option as I don't need any more power at this stage and after speaking with the salesman it seems the 30w is in budget, however this is a metal tube and as such doesn't have the power upgrade options that the ceramic tubes have. The ceramic tube 40w laser is a fair bit more expensive pushing it just out of budget.

Would I regret settling for the cheaper 30w metal tube or should I really look to stretch the budget to the upgradeable 40w ceramic?

[Robert Walters]

Dan,

I saw that your project *may* include edge lit acrylic.

For me, 30W can cut 1/4" acrylic, but barely and needs air-assist.
40 or 50 watts would have been MUCH better for such things.

Just something to keep in mind.

[Dan Kozakewycz]

Yes that's the sort of thing I need to know. At the moment I'm only focussing on marking anodised aluminium but may want to move up to being able to cut acrylics etc at a later date. What about the requirements for etching glass, will a 30w be enough for that?

[Scott Shepherd]

Dan, the issue I would have is that the Speedy might be faster than the Rayjet, but with that little power, you won't be able to engrave at 100% speed anyway, so you'll have to slow your Speedy down to make it work, which kind of defeats the purpose of buying a faster machine. Speed is great, but without power, you can't use speed.

I wouldn't be too concerned about metal or ceramic tubes. Trotec used metal tubes for a long time and those metal tubed machines earned them their reputation.

[Dan Kozakewycz]

I'm not really too fussed about the metal or ceramic tube, ceramic would be nice but as you say metal is absolutely fine. It's the fact that the 30w is not upgradeable that is the deciding factor.

I was looking to future proof the business with the Speedy as I imagine I would end up trading in the Rayjet and upgrading at a later date anyway, the plan was that I could start with the 30w now as that's all I need to produce my work and upgrade the power later if necessary but where the metal/ceramic tubes aren't interchangeable, that's not an option.

Just laying out the pros/cons of my options at the moment...

Rayjet50 30w
Pros
Affordable.
Produces my products perfectly with adequate speed at 100%. (Producing the artwork is the bottle neck, not production speed.)
Cons
Limited printer driver software for other work if it becomes available (I have a feeling it will)
Small bed
Non upgradeable

Speedy100 30w
Pros
In budget
Running at 100% produces my products 20% faster.
JobControl offers better flexibility for other work
Bigger bed
Cons
Non upgradeable
Capped 30w power limitations

Speedy100 40w
Pros
Ceramic tube
Engraves/cuts on other substrates faster than the 30w
Can be upgraded to 50 or 60w power
JobControl offers better flexibility for other work
Bigger bed
Cons
Just out of budget
Doesn't produce my products any faster than the 30w.

[Scott Shepherd]

Dan, why would you say that the 40W won't produce product any faster than the 30W? It's possible that 30W can engrave anodized aluminum at 100% speed, but I'm not sure. If so, then I agree.

You'd be better off long term with the machine out of your budget :) You are totally correct in your "pros", I think. The Job Control problem is quite powerful.

[Dan Kozakewycz]

Yes the 30w machines can already run at 100% tried and tested, so additional power doesn't appear to be of any use for my own work even if it is for other stuff. Is it worth stretching myself to equip for work I'm not sure I'll get, that's the question... I guess a more important question will be, "What can't I do with 30w?"

I know I will have to run it slower for cutting some materials, but at the moment I'm not looking to be a production powerhouse running 24/7 so that's not too much of an issue right now.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Figure metal marking is typically done at about 10-15W on a 80ips machine. You'll need about 14-21W on a machine that runs at 110ips. This isn't exact math by any means but I very much doubt you'll have an issue marking metal (AA and "engravers metal") at 100% speed. Acrylic you'll probably mark at full power and full speed. You may have to run a bit slower than full speed. Laminated plastic you'll probably have to run a bit less than full speed. Any wood marking you'll definitely be less than full speed, but that's pretty much always the case unless you have 80+W.

I would not buy a 30W if I wanted to cut anything thicker than 1/8" material. 3/16" is what I'd actually consider the max as 1/4" is just so inefficient and the results are mediocre at best.

[Dan Kozakewycz]

Thanks Ross, helpful to know those sorts of figures. At the moment, I don't need to cut anything, it'd just be nice to be able to do so if required by a customer.

It's an expensive option for an uncertain return though.

[Scott Shepherd]

Thanks Ross, helpful to know those sorts of figures. At the moment, I don't need to cut anything, it'd just be nice to be able to do so if required by a customer.

It's an expensive option for an uncertain return though.

I doubt it'll be an uncertain return long. Once you get it, you'll find many, many uses for the additional power and you'll put it to good use, I'm sure. If I had to worry about spending money on options, I'd not lose any sleep over spending money on power or speed. Both will pay for themselves many times over, over the course of just one year.

[David Somers]

Dan,

Keep in mind I am speaking generally since I don't have a laser yet. I fully agree with Scott. In general, I have never been disappointed I over bought capacity. That has been true in my work in IT, with tools and hardware, etc. I have never regretted it, and have always eventually moved into making use of that extra capacity.

For what it is worth.

Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

Dan,

Keep in mind I am speaking generally since I don't have a laser yet. I fully agree with Scott. In general, I have never been disappointed I over bought capacity. That has been true in my work in IT, with tools and hardware, etc. I have never regretted it, and have always eventually moved into making use of that extra capacity.

For what it is worth.

Dave

Dave, we're going to convert you to a Western machine yet :) Of all the people that have come and gone on this forum over the 7 or so years I've been here, I can't think of anyone that I want to see with a nice laser more than you. If I won the lottery today, I'd buy you a nice machine and I'd buy Mike Null a 80W laser too :) I'd love to see you two with premium machines because I think both of you would push them into new things that no one else is even thinking about.

[Mike Null]

Steve

You're too kind--but here's hoping you win.:)

[David Somers]

Scott!! I am routing for the lottery for you!!!!! <grin>

Everything but my bank account is converted to a Western Laser Scott! But to paraphrase the old saying, I have Western Laser taste and a Chinese Laser budget! While it won't be a Trotec though, I am confident in Ray and his crew at Rabbit out in Ohio and what they offer and do, so it will all work out. And who knows! Maybe someday my eventual semi paying retirement hobby will pay enough to warrant a Speedy! So long as I still have tons of time for making mulch for my wife on my wood lathe!!! (those curly shavings make great mulch!! <grin>)

[Robert Walters]

I don't need to cut anything, it'd just be nice to be able to do so if required by a customer.

It's an expensive option for an uncertain return though.


Let me put it another way...
Sure, you can cut 1/4" acrylic on a 30W laser once every 3 or so years.
It'll be dawg slow, and if you don't have air-assist, it'll look like crap due to the vaporized acrylic resettling on the workpiece.


If your customer wants 5, 10, or 50 of them...
You'll be kicking yourself, the dog, the cat, and have and overwhelming case of turrets syndrome somewhere near the point of considering you'll have to tell the customer their order will be delayed or not being able to be fulfilled.



I'm not sure what "Job Control" is in respect to what you describe, but I REALLY do like the idea of not having a "relic" in x years, so being able to upgrade down the road makes a lot of sense to me.


My ULS M-300 30W is 12 years old, and may have a failing tube.
It's $1200 USD to replace with another 30W tube, to "upgrade to a 50W tube, I have to contact sales (oh joy) so I suspect that would be in the $5000 USD neighborhood.

It's a beautiful machine, seriously. The engineering that went into it is (was) an art form. You just don't see this type of work anymore. Even replacing the laser tube is TOOL-LESS and SELF-ALIGNING. I'd retrofit it before giving it up.

All I'm trying to say is that your are looking at this from a non production viewpoint, and unless you can include the replacement cost of a new laser in (lets say) 5 years into the products you sell, you need to consider the long-term investment of future capabilities, maintenance, and repair in your budget.

[Scott Shepherd]

Scott!! I am routing for the lottery for you!!!!! <grin>

Everything but my bank account is converted to a Western Laser Scott! But to paraphrase the old saying, I have Western Laser taste and a Chinese Laser budget! While it won't be a Trotec though, I am confident in Ray and his crew at Rabbit out in Ohio and what they offer and do, so it will all work out. And who knows! Maybe someday my eventual semi paying retirement hobby will pay enough to warrant a Speedy! So long as I still have tons of time for making mulch for my wife on my wood lathe!!! (those curly shavings make great mulch!! <grin>)

No need for a Speedy Dave, there's plenty of other maintstream machines out there in the used market.

Someone had a Speedy 100 60W that looked like brand new that was selling for like $4,000 on ebay a while back. We looked at it so hard, but in the end, we were just looking to buy some other things and it didn't work out, but $4K for a Speedy 100 60W that looked like new? Deals are out there, you just have to be patient. I've seen some killer deals in the classified section on this site.

[Dan Kozakewycz]

Well my 40w Speedy turned up yesterday!

I had decided to install it in an upstairs bedroom. In hindsight, it was slightly silly of me to assume how easy it would be to actually get 100kg of unbalanced, highly sensitive electrical equipment up a flight of stairs, on a couple of occasions I thought about aborting the whole thing and finding an alternative residence for it!

But I persevered, and eventually wrestled the thing up the stairs, very gently step by step, and now it's all in place awaiting the Trotec engineer to come down and show me how to use it!

Did a noise test with the fans and exhaust powered up, it's just about borderline acceptable but I don't think I'll be running it past about 6-7pm. Thankfully I live on a busy road which should drown it out a bit!