Architectural Modeling with a laser

[Lynn Kull]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone is doing any arch. models on their laser. Have been wondering how involved this would be to get into? I am asuming you would need AutoCAD or AutoCad Lt. Wondering how lucrative this would be and how much work is out there? thanks Lynn

[Bruce Volden]

Lynn, I personally haven't tried these but it sounds quite easy. I spoke to a fellow in Chicago who does this, he said the architects do ALL the work, bring the file to the engraver and he would import them into Corel and cut them out etc.. there is not much call for this where I'm at otherwise I'd like to try it!!

[Rodne Gold]

It is HUGELY lucrative in 2 respects , either just cutting bits for the builder or building the thing yourself (not recommneded)
Here is a model we did most of the work for and the price of the model to the developer was around $60 000 (Our cut wasnt even near that)
http://www.tokerbros.co.za/MODEL.jpg
Its a lousy rez pic and the model was much bigger , but it shows what can be done.
We do have ACAD , but it's not essential if you can get the arch to prepare the dwgs in the right way before hand. You can easily import into Corel.
There is a huge amount of work out there for this , in the movie industry for sets , smaller arch's showing clients big homes , and the biggest market is developers of complexes etc selling off plan and off model. The model is VITAL for them and they want realism normally. A laser is ideal for it.
Most of them build the models using 1-1.5mm Acrylic which is a snap to cut - they like it cos it can be glued and painted easily.
There are a whole host of other things you can make out of card and other substrates for the model industry , for example , stiff brick red card can be engraved with a terracotta tile patern , die cut , engraved with fold lines and then the builder just bends and glues it to form a roof. The list is endless.

You want the drawing sent real simple , no layers , no wierd text , you want a 10mm x 10mm square in every drawing to check scale when importing into Corel , you want cut lines red , inside cut lines (windows) another colour , anything to be engraved in black. Thats about it (oh and ask them to save in ver 14 or below format)
I would NOT get into building these especially the big projects as if you are NOT Acad savvy (big learning curve , expensive package) you will spend a huge amount of time prepping your cut files. Apart from which there are all manner of other things that the laser cant do that need to be fabricated.
A big model can take 6 weeks and needs carefully co -ordinated teams of builders (most guys use arch students on a part time basis)
Initially with any buider , there are inevitably a few problems in the drawings which working with them a bit overcomes , but the biggest problem is the "urgent" bits , as the model nears deadline , there are bits and pieces that dont fit , new detials , forgotten components and you find yourself getting pressurised - like they need it yesterday.
We charge 3x our material costs (including wasteage) and per minute of laser time (about $1.20 or so)
We also charge per hour of "fix" up time for graphics.
We have done about 15 models so far , and as soon as you do one , you get more orders as the model builders see how much time you save them and the word of mouth spreads and soon you get a reputation for this.
It's almost impossible to quote a final figure for a model to the builder but suffice it to say , even with our pricing , it works out DIRT cheap to them they save time and they get precision parts. We dont like working in ABS for model componets as often there are very thin sections like window divisions within a frame and these distort badly due to heat. The more models you do , the easier it becomes , especially if you have "trained" the builder or Arch.
The list of components you can make is endless , we have some other machinery that makes it even more attractive to model builder like our large format overhead router than can carve the base in 3d with all contours and elevations or our digital print and cut machine that prints and die cuts self adhesive vinyl (road marking , reflections of sky in windows and so forth)
We also make the base and case for these , that alone can run to $1000's on big models
Its a good thing to get into!!!

The biggest we did was a 2.9 x 1.5 meter one

[Aaron Koehl]

Rodne,

I've been interested in the market for architectural modeling with the laser for some time. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any decent literature on building architectural scale models- the ones I have found at the bookstore seem to be very lacking, or too wordy. (Pictures are worth a thousand words here).

Can anyone make a recommendation?

[Lee DeRaud]

Rodne,

I've been interested in the market for architectural modeling with the laser for some time. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any decent literature on building architectural scale models- the ones I have found at the bookstore seem to be very lacking, or too wordy. (Pictures are worth a thousand words here).

Can anyone make a recommendation?
Have you seen this: http://www.epiloglaser.com/sc_model.htm ?
Just to get your feet wet (or at least get your toes damp:p )...

[rich shepard]

Hi All
This is one I'm working on, it's cut from 1/64 ply and in N-scale 1/160. It was drawn in Corel and just about ready to start marketing some.

[Rodne Gold]

Thick materials do not work well for these applications. Ideally you need a material that corresponds to the scale you are building at IE is as thick as the wall would be under real life if scaled up. No one here uses tabs and finger joints , but rather glues using Chloroform or capilliary action plastic glues.
The trick is to compensate for material thickness in the Acad drawing to avoid progressive cumulative errors and to number the parts logically for ease of build.
Model building is an art and a science and you need to be creative and think laterally , what you do and how you do it depends on scale and realism. For example palm trees can be made of toothpics and laser cut green paper that look like marijuana leaves with a central hole that slips over the toothpic. Bushes and trees can be made of cotton wool and pipe cleaners and so forth.
The full acad drawings supplied by archs are very complex and often require a lot of clean up to work on or to extract various elevations and views. (too time consuming). If you want to do your own , you have to have some knowledge of how to draw a plan or rudimentary draughting skills. Simple structures arent that difficult , complexes and developments are.
I would approach a few arch or model builders and start off simple with them , to show them the benefits of laser cutting , even the board they generally use , then progress.
A lot do their stuff by hand and are luddites when it comes to new tech , often phoo phooing your offer untill they get stuck time wise and come to you and you save their bacon.
Get the plans of your house if possible and try work from that (Electronic plans)
NEVER take on a job if you cant get the plans in cad format - it is almost impossible to work from paper.
In general , finishes detail is important and this is where the fly is in the ointment ,
It's pretty easy to build the structures , but the paints , cornices , balconies , fences , paint colours and schemes etc is where it takes time. This is where a deskjet printer printing on inkjet vinyl is a huge plus.
Inkjet vinyl is laser safe , mostly polyester , so you can print lets say a wall you cut in acrylic in full colour with a brick pattern.
Then load the sheet of vinyl in the laser and die cut it and then apply to the wall. (not too difficult to make a registration system)
You alread have the outline you laser cut so just use that to die cut the vinyl and hey presto , you have a brick wall with windows that fits exactly on the acrylic.
Most of you will have a colour printer so this allows you to make the stuff ultra realistic , for example print reflections of the sky with clouds in a plate glass window and so on (you can even do it in paper and stick it on)

This is far quicker then trying to engrave detail , to engrave the bricks in the wall takes a huge amount of time , will put a lot of heat into the material and often warp it and has no colour and thus needs painting.
I would suggest practising glueing acrylics and buying a cheap wire line bender , the bender is not that vital , glueing is , makes some cubes and glue them up to practice , it's quite easy.
One thing that is a problem are the lasers being not accurate in both X and Y or one of them , you need to be spot on and would have to use a compensation or scaling factor or calibrate the laser , ours can be calibrated in the driver.
Kerf widths are not that problematic , tho we do cut with a 1.5" lens for the small spot size and speed.

[Aaron Koehl]

Good info Rodne, and Rich, thanks for the pic.

The jury's still out on a good book though.

[Mike Mackenzie]

Modeling can be a lot of work but it also can be a lot of fun. In our area most if not all architectural modelers have laser systems.

The graphics are the most work but once there done you can make thousands of the same parts. So in my opinion if you can get hooked up with a architectural firm they will supply you with a lot of work.

Here is a model we did just for fun.

[Lee DeRaud]

Here is a model we did just for fun.So, Mike, where's the Corel file, eh? :rolleyes:

[Rodne Gold]

Yeh , that is a fantastic model , where's the file:)
Would make a great display in any laser engraving shop!!

[Larry Browning]

There is a program called 3d Home Design from Punch Software www.punchsoftware.com (http://www.punchsoftware.com) that will print out a model of your building that can be glued to a piece of poster board, cut out and built into a model of the house plan. I don't have this but I thought it looked pretty cool.

[Aaron Koehl]

Larry,

Interesting find, I wonder if it has any settings for using foam board or thicker materials. If so, perhaps it could be adapted to generate files for the laser..

[Larry Browning]

Larry,

Interesting find, I wonder if it has any settings for using foam board or thicker materials. If so, perhaps it could be adapted to generate files for the laser..
Aaron,
You can download a demo version, why not give it a try and let us know. This is a program that I have known about for a long time, but haven't tried because I already have 3D Home Architect and can't justify (at least in my own mind) the 50 bucks. But I have always thought it would be fun to try. Also, I think they have a forum, so maybe you could ask some questions there.

Larry

[Lynn Kull]

Mike, what kind of material did you use on the tower? thanks Lynn

[Mike Mackenzie]

Lynn,

All cut from plywood 1/16 for the top half and 1/8 for the bottom I then painted it to give it a metal look.

[J Porter]

Is there a source for the drawings of the Eiffel?? I'd really like to construct something like that.

Thanks
~Joe

[Aaron Koehl]

On the Eiffel Tower's website there are free vector models of the structure available.

[Robert Stremcha]

Care to post the URL? I looked and couldn't find it, but there are many Eiffel tower websites.:confused:

[Bruce Volden]

Try this; http://www.tour-eiffel.fr/teiffel/uk/ludique/visite/3D/index_comp.html

[Mike Mackenzie]

Joe,

I originally purchased the pattern from Wildwood designs. It was a scroll saw pattern for a clock I modified it just to be the tower.

You can check their web site to see if they still have the pattern available.

www.wildwooddesigns.com (http://www.wildwooddesigns.com)

[Lee DeRaud]

Joe,

I originally purchased the pattern from Wildwood designs. It was a scroll saw pattern for a clock I modified it just to be the tower.

You can check their web site to see if they still have the pattern available.

www.wildwooddesigns.com (http://www.wildwooddesigns.com/) Got it: http://www.wildwooddesigns.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1593
But for the life of me, I cannot see where the clock is supposed to go. :p

Their materials list is calling out pieces 24" long. Does it scale down well enough to cut on a 12"x16" Versalaser?

[Mike Mackenzie]

Lee,

The original was 37" tall it called for 1/4 and 1/8" woods. If you scale it down 50% you end up with an 18" tower the one pictured. you then use 1/8 and 1/16" woods. If you scale it up 50% you end up with a 54" tower. We did one of each size

the tower is constructed of three sections Bottom, middle, and top all of the parts would fit into the Versa in the 18" size. You will have to cut one section at a time and on the bottom you will have to cut each piece one at a time maybe you could fit two you will have to check.

There are angles on several of the pieces 45 degrees on the base, mid base and tall tops. Then there are 22.5 degree angles on the tower top to shape the octagon. We made a fixture to cut the 22.5 degree angles on the laser and then used a beveler to do the 45 degree angles.

We also added tabs and cutout notches so the assembly was easier and more exact.

It was a lot of fun I hope you all enjoy building one for yourself.

[Pedro López]

Hi all,

if you look at the real Eiffel tower and compare to the model shown in this thread you realize that model is not at all accurate. A few months ago I devoted myself to the task of creating a very accurate scroll saw model of the Eiffel tower. The plans can be used to make a wooden model or with minor changes a paper model. Here is the pic:
http://www.finescrollsaw.com/eiffel-tower-12.jpg

If you would like to see more pics of this model you can visit my web:
http://www.finescrollsaw.com
The tower is at
http://www.finescrollsaw.com/eiffel-tower.htm

By the way this is my first post here. Today I have found this forum by chance. I am an amateur scroll saw crafter and designer.

[Aaron Koehl]

Welcome to the 'Creek Pedro, very nice work there. And a fitting last name ;)

[Pedro López]

Thanks Aaron, Fret is not my last name. The real one is López, but I chose that one to register, since López is too common. Hope this is not a problem.

Pedro.

[Aaron Koehl]

I would gladly change it to López-- you'd be the first, incidentally.

[John Starks]

I cannot recommend a specific book but would check out a local hobby shop in the model railroad department. Most will have at least one book on building structures. An online search for the same type of book should turn up something. Just my 2cts worth.

John

[Joe Pelonio]

This is where a deskjet printer printing on inkjet vinyl is a huge plus.
Inkjet vinyl is laser safe , mostly polyester , so you can print lets say a wall you cut in acrylic in full colour with a brick pattern.
Then load the sheet of vinyl in the laser and die cut it and then apply to the wall. (not too difficult to make a registration system)
You alread have the outline you laser cut so just use that to die cut the vinyl and hey presto , you have a brick wall with windows that fits exactly on the acrylic.

I do this often and it's a lot easier to just apply the printed vinyl to the acrylic, leaving on the transfer tape, and cut on the laser though both.
Remove the transfer tape and the wall is done. With desktop inkjets make sure it's dry and test to make sure the ink doesn't come off with the trasnsfer tape.

[etienne pitre]

I am looking for eiffel towe file, do you share your file, if not where i can have it thanks

[Martin Boekers]

Do some searches here at SMC for Divid Fairfield, he produces AMAZING work!

www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?85546-Made-on-Epilog (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?85546-Made-on-Epilog)