Board height order for making up a Panel?

[Tony Wilkins]

I'm making up a table top for a shaker table out of three boards. I got them flat but one of the boards had more bow in it than the others. It is now just about a 1/16th (I'm horrible at guesstimates) or more below the other two boards -- there a noticeable ridge between the boards. It was suggested elsewhere that I go ahead and glue them up and go at it (even though none of them are perfect*).

So should I just glue them up and work the other two boards down to it? BTW it's the middle of the three. Should I get the other two closer to it? Should I just cut out another board that would get closer the the finished width?

* others still have a little bit of the concavity left on that side of the board whereas the convex side is as close to flat as I can manage.

[Sean Hughto]

A few general things:
- consider making some cauls for glue up
- always assume that you are going to flatten the panel, not make the individual boards perfect and glue them together perfectly
- a handplane ( I like a 5 1/2 or 7) worked across the grain makes for quick and accurate flat panels followed by a smoother with the grain to pretty it up

[Tony Wilkins]

Ok, that fits with the advice I already have Sean. I spent a bit of this afternoon match planing two of the boards together so a bit of that next time I'm in the shop and I'll be ready to glue them up.

[Federico Mena Quintero]

What Sean said. You'll flatten the whole glue-up, not each individual board. A lightly cambered jack plane works great *across* the grain to level things up. It's much faster than trying to equalize the thickness by going with the grain.

(I don't know how fussy you want to be about the tabletop... I'd flatten the top carefully, and leave the bottom as it comes out of the glue-up.)

[Tony Wilkins]

What Sean said. You'll flatten the whole glue-up, not each individual board. A lightly cambered jack plane works great *across* the grain to level things up. It's much faster than trying to equalize the thickness by going with the grain.

(I don't know how fussy you want to be about the tabletop... I'd flatten the top carefully, and leave the bottom as it comes out of the glue-up.)

Since this is my first furniture piece (and only second project), I'd be happy if it comes out roughly table shaped as a whole and the table top does eject things I put on top of it ;)

[Derek Cohen]

I'm making up a table top for a shaker table out of three boards. I got them flat but one of the boards had more bow in it than the others. It is now just about a 1/16th (I'm horrible at guesstimates) or more below the other two boards -- there a noticeable ridge between the boards. It was suggested elsewhere that I go ahead and glue them up and go at it (even though none of them are perfect*).

So should I just glue them up and work the other two boards down to it? BTW it's the middle of the three. Should I get the other two closer to it? Should I just cut out another board that would get closer the the finished width?

* others still have a little bit of the concavity left on that side of the board whereas the convex side is as close to flat as I can manage.

Hi Tony

Since this is your first piece of furniture, you may wish to make it easier by having three similar pieces.

Otherwise you could just glue them up, with the flush side facing up (and the odd thickness in the middle of the three and "lower" showing from below). Then add breadboard ends, which will hide the uneven thicknesses. I have done this on a number of occasions.

Here is one made from old Jarrah floorboards of random thicknesses ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AShakerTableforMothersDay_html_m7af1055e.jpg

You cannot tell the boards are different thicknesses, except for the surrounds ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AShakerTableforMothersDay_html_m63b86ce8.jpg

... and a link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AShakerTableforMothersDay.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Wilkins]

Thanks Derek. I may relook if one board I have that was the 'other half' of one of the boards would work better. I initially set it aside because it had a chunk out of it. I don't know if the tables big enough to worry about doing a bread board end. I'll keep y'all posted.

[David Eisenhauer]

The cauls mentioned above will take a bunch of the fight out of the booger before you even pick up the 5.5 or the 7 to go "cross country". Cauls are your friend. The table will not eject anything unless alcohol (excess thereof) is involved. I know the underneath side can be ignored, but OCD or German blood or something will not allow me to do so.

[Tony Wilkins]

I have a basic understanding of cauls but can someone point me to a good article on them. Meanwhile I'll be going back to look through the cd of all the past Fine Woodworking mags to see what I can come up with.

[Sean Hughto]

Cut some strips of wood an inch or two wide and at least as long as the width of your panel. Use a hand plane to take a tiny bit off the ends working back towards the middle so that you form a slight belly along one edge. Cover the "belly" with clear packing tape so glue won't stick to it. Clamp the cauls with your deepest throat clamps and on the ends.

[Tom Vanzant]

Tony, another point...make certain the grain rises the same in all of the boards. Makes things much easier at smoothing time. DAMHIKT.

[Tony Wilkins]

Thanks Tom. Been trying to do that but my grain reading skills need some improvement. Or the grain my not have been ideal for a beginner to begin with. I know that there isn't necessarily long straight grain on the edge of each board as CS said to look for in the video.

[David Eisenhauer]

To expand on Sean's caul description - Essentially, you will trap the three-board panel (table top)you have created (prior to gluing the three boards together) between pairs of wood strips (one placed below the panel, the other above the panel) running 90 deg across the panel. Depending upon length of your panel, you should place a caul pair a few inches from each end of the panel, plus another pair across the middle or more pairs spread out equally as the length of the panel increases. The wood strips (cauls) need to be wide and thick enough to have the strength to resist bending and are used with the caul strip on edge, not face down. The caul will be rectangular in shape except for one edge (one side of the "width"). That edge should be in the shape of a very large radius curve centered on the middle of the length of the caul. The ends of the caul will be somewhere around 1/16" - 1/8" (or slightly more, not important) out of true from a straight line. When matched together on edge (as they will be used), a pair of cauls will touch at their respective centers and have something like 3/16"" - 1/4" gap at the ends. After positioning a caul set in place, clamp the two outer ends (one upper, one lower) together. Clamping the two "bowed" ends together ensures that the center of the panel has pressure exerted on it as well as the ends and will help even out the minute "ups and downs" found along the glued board edges of a panel glue up. Do this before using your edge-gluing clamps to pull the three boards together. The caul clamping first will not prevent the panel clamps from sucking the three boards together. I have various caul lengths around the shop to use for my common-width panel work and tried to select straight-grain hardwood for strength. Note that the amount of material removed from the ends of the cauls is not scientific (need not be scientific at any rate, however some will persist), just create a decent little clearance and try to fair out the curve to "zero" at the center. You can use planes, jointers (electric), sanders, band saw, rasps, whatever.

[Sean Hughto]

This isn't the only way, but it gets the idea across -- with pictures!

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodnews/2010april/cauls.html

[Tony Wilkins]

Panel is glued up. Used Liquid Hide Glue so I can reverse it out if need be. There was an article on glue ups in either Fine Woodworking for Popular Woodworking recently but I can't find the sucker now that I need it. I know I need some better/more clamps* and I think I'll spend some more time working on making some less makeshift clamps (I got eager).

* I've got several of the blue Irwin trigger close clamps, a couple of 6" wooden screw clamps, and a couple of jorgensen HD f-type clamps - none of them seeming ideal for panel making. Ordering some jet or bessey cabinet clamps soon.

I'll post some pics of the result for ill or good tomorrow when the glue dries.

[Tony Wilkins]

Still a work in progress as I try to decide when enough is enough on trying to level out the panel. Haven't done any smoothing yet but here's some pictures...
First side...
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd316/cadfael_tex/DSCF1672_zps6e0d5cf4.jpg (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/cadfael_tex/media/DSCF1672_zps6e0d5cf4.jpg.html)

One of the joints/seams on that side (and a lot of tear out)
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd316/cadfael_tex/DSCF1673_zps51695fda.jpg (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/cadfael_tex/media/DSCF1673_zps51695fda.jpg.html)

Second Side
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd316/cadfael_tex/DSCF1674_zps20ffd70f.jpg (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/cadfael_tex/media/DSCF1674_zps20ffd70f.jpg.html)

Seam/Joint from that side (Not quite tight)
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd316/cadfael_tex/DSCF1675_zps6ff815d8.jpg (http://s220.photobucket.com/user/cadfael_tex/media/DSCF1675_zps6ff815d8.jpg.html)

Wife thinks it looks good but I'm a perfectionist.

[Sean Hughto]

It all depends what you are going for. Please don't take offense, but it looks a bit rustic from here. Well jointed and clamped seams will not be visible except by the grain mismatch - there will be no gap or line. Flat is when you put a face on a known flat surface and there is contact all around and no wobble. After that, the smoothing is for pretty - getting rid of tear out.

[Tony Wilkins]

Looks rustic to me too; not what I was going for but at least the wife likes rustic. The seam was a disappointment to me as well. Thought I had it better together - no light and it seemed to be together tight but maybe I just looked at it from one side or something. The side with the more tear out seems to be pretty together except for the very ends.

Live and learn I reckon.

[Sean Hughto]

We've all started somewhere and all made lots of mistakes along the way. It's part of learning and growing. Like Teddy Roosevelt said: The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything. Keep doing it. I hope it was alright to try to give you an honest answer. Don't get discouraged.

[David Eisenhauer]

Hey, first furniture piece? 2nd project? Good start, keep on working it with the smoother and don't sweat the glue lines on this particular piece. The next one will go a little quicker and a little cleaner. At the very least, sharpening the plane will go better. My first larger panel (top for an entertainment center, maybe 24" wide by 6' long mahogany) was supposed to be 3/4" thick but ended up 5/8" thick and what was originally going to be the bottom became the top to hide some deep tear out around a knot. Discouragement is not on the allowable list this week. More photos after the next session please.

[Tony Wilkins]

Sean that's what I was looking for. Discouraged comes with being a perfectionist but I'm plugging along. My CPE supervisor always said 'practice makes better' not 'perfect' - he was a recovering perfectionist as well. Went out and hit it with my LAJ set in smoother mode. [I have an LN #4 coming in about a week (Father's day).] It came up a little better. There tear out side has much tighter seams than the other side so it may end up being the top (I've lost track of which was the heart side).

There's one little 'lip' on one of the joints that I just can't seem to get down. The middle is just a bit proud of the next board but none of my bench planes seem to be able to get it and I can't seem to get at it with the right angle with my block plane. Any tips?

[Sean Hughto]

I wish you lived next door and I could come by for half an hour to help out. Maybe I'll make a video the next time a make up a panel. Anyway, that lip sounds weird. Planes take down high spots. I can't picture how no plane can level a proud area on a panel. You might think about a scraper or .... dun dun daah ... sandpaper.