dowels or biscuits?

[Mike Steinhilper]

Any preference? I know some of you guys are strictly mortise/tenon and dovetail, but I'd like to hear some opinions on doweling jigs and/or biscuit joiners. What's the best joinery for face frames, etc.?

[Lee Schierer]

By far the strongest joint you can use for face frames is a lap joint. I use them in all my face frames. They have the added advantage of holding the frame square as you glue it up if you have cut the pieces square to start. I use a dado blade or just the regular cross cut blade to cut the dados and use the Delta tenoning jig to cut the half laps on the ends.

The kreg jig would probably be the fastest and next strongest joint you could use. Dowels and biscuits would be a distant 3rd in my opinion.

[Nick Mitchell]

Here's another option;

http://www.hoffmann-usa.com/htm/machines/intro_dovetail.htm

http://www.hoffmann-usa.com/images/machines/MU-2P.jpg

[Bob Johnson2]

I've made frames with both and have not used dowels since. Biscuits are much more forgiving then dowels, they are also much wider and may not be suitable for thin styles etc on the frames. Take a look at sizes that a given joiner will use. As the others have said, there are better options out there but of the 2 I prefer biscuits.

[Chris Barton]

Your question appears to be specific to face frames so, I would suggest and alternative option to dowels and biscuts; Kreg jig and screws. I own a Kreg and use it often. It is fast, precise and very strong.


Chris

[John Gregory]

I agree with Chris regarding face frames. Pocket screws work great

[Jim Becker]

Face Frame? Pocket screws and glue for me! I do use biscuits to provide alignment when assembling them to a carcass, but not for building the frames, themselves. 'Never have used dowels and likely will not.

[Scott Parks]

For face frames with solid lumber, POCKET SCREWS. Fast, easy, and strong. For attatching the face frame, I prefer BISQUITS. I used to use a doweling jig years ago, and somtimes you get flex in the drill bit, or jig, causing mis-alignment. That dowel jig NEVER sees daylight out of my toolbox...

Strength wise, long, long ago, when I was a young un-educated woodworker, I built my first table using dowels to attatch the aprons to the legs... Didn't last a much more than a year... Also used dowels to attatch the spindles of a headboard for a bed. Due to wood movement, the dowel joints separated within six months, but the rest of the frame held solid with half-laps.

[Russ Massery]

Believe me pocket screws............:D I'm in the middle of a kitchen redo, I've built 10 face frames already nothing could be easier... BTW the bench mounted clamp works much better in keeping the faces flat..

[Mike Tempel]

Pocket screws for face frames. I generally use dowels for glued up panels. Not as forgiving as biscuits but recently I have had a run of bad luck with getting panels to glue up flat using biscuits and ended up sanding so much that my 3/4" panels ended up at about 1/2" at the seams. Never again - writing off biscuits for my doweling jig.

[Bob Johnson2]

I found just the opposite, which probably proves it's my doweling technique...




Pocket screws for face frames. I generally use dowels for glued up panels. Not as forgiving as biscuits but recently I have had a run of bad luck with getting panels to glue up flat using biscuits and ended up sanding so much that my 3/4" panels ended up at about 1/2" at the seams. Never again - writing off biscuits for my doweling jig.

[Dale Thompson]

POCKET SCREWS!! The only answer with today's technology! :) R.I.P my beautiful DeWalt biscuit joiner. :( Lastly, in my humble opinion, there is no such thing as a "good" doweling jig. :eek: ;) If you must use dowels, use dowel pins! :) :D Just a thought. :confused:

Dale T.

[jack duren]

"there is no such thing as a "good" doweling jig."

sure there is. its called a craftsman turret.....jack

[Dale Thompson]

"there is no such thing as a "good" doweling jig."

sure there is. its called a craftsman turret.....jack

Jack,
Sorry!! No offense intended. :) I haven't looked at doweling jigs since I bought my biscuit machine. :o Now, with pocket holes, biscuits are more or less in my past. :D I make my own pocket hole plugs and even if they are visible, I think that they look kind of cool and quite professional. It's not fact. It's only personal preference. :) In any event, I stick with my comment on dowel pins. :D :cool: :)

Dale T.

[Christian Aufreiter]

"there is no such thing as a "good" doweling jig."

sure there is. its called a craftsman turret.....jack

I'm not familiar with the jig you mentioned but if someone is interested in a really excellent "dowelling jig" be sure to have a look at the Mafell Duo-Dowel System (http://www.mafell.com/produkte/prod_bohren_dd40_i.htm).

Regards,

Christian

[Roy Wall]

Another vote for the Kreg pocket screws.......even I can make it look good!

[Steve Beadle]

I used to use dowels, both with a Craftsman doweling jig and with what precision was offered with the horizontal boring function on my old Shopsmith, but I prefer biscuits now. Biscuit joinery is faster, more forgiving, and ultimately, cheaper, I think. I have heard the "love stories" about pocket holes, and I may have to cave-in, but for me the issue is esthetics--I don't like the idea of that elongated hole, nor the idea of screws in the joint. But now you can plug the holes with specially-shaped dowels, so I guess that wouldn't be so bad. I just have to change my way of thinking, I guess.

[Per Swenson]

Steve,

I am not trying to be coy here, but if you
put the pocket holes on the back
of the face frame, no one but a foot tall elf
will ever see them.

I used biscuits for a long time
and at one time being a stodgy know it all
purist, I scoffed at pocket hole joinery.
Check here. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=20319

I am convinced they are the way to go.

Per