Trane XV80 vs XB80 furnace? XB13,XB16,XLI8i AC ?

[Stephen Tashiro]

Anyone have experience or opinons on the Trane XV80 and XB80 furnaces? Or the XB13, XB16 and XLI8i air conditioning units?

A friend is considering installing a furnace and AC unit to replace an old gas furnace and an old evaporative cooler. Those are the choices offered by a local contractor.


My friend has asthma. Choices for add-on air purification are the "RGF Guardian Air" and the "Trane CleanEffects" units. Any thoughts about the effectiveness of electronic air purification?

[Brian Elfert]

Trane and American Standard are the same company. I've had real good luck with my American Standard furnace and A/C units. 13 years and still working fine without any issues.

[Mark Bolton]

Trane and American Standard are made on the same line but they are not the same unit. The trane does have different (better) components than the American standard. Whether or not those components are enough to justify the bit extra is up to the customer.

Most installers offer the Trane and then some other lower cost brands but if you can swing the Trane they are worth every penny. We've had customers go with them on two recent jobs and they and I have been very happy. Two other jobs though have gone with Goodman systems and even though they are considered a low end manufacturer I have been pleasantly suprprised.

It's hard when an installer gives you options on trane units that run up into the teens, and then a Goodman that may be in the single digits. But you get what your pay for.

[Bruce Page]

We had a new furnace and AC installed last month. I ran across these while doing my research.

Consumer Reports - Which is better? (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/gas-furnaces-703/overview/index.htm)
Consumer Reports - Heating with gas (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/gas-furnaces-703/overview/index.htm)

In a nutshell, there’s not much quality difference between brands (stay away from Goodman)

[David Weaver]

Is there a drip back into the furnace from condensation on 80% units, or are they like the old furnaces where they send the condensation right out the chimney?

I've got a sears furnace from 1986 that's never caused anyone a lick of trouble and I won't do anything about it until it drops because gas is cheap here and it sends all of the moisture right out of the chimney - I like that. As far as efficiency goes, I spend about a thousand dollars a year in western PA on gas to heat 1600 sq feet of house that's 60 years old (and not that tight), so there's not a lot for me to gain with a more efficient unit.

I've been told that when I replace that furnace, that I shouldn't expect to get anything close to the same life out of any more modern unit.

There are a lot of goodman units in my neighborhood, I have no idea who is installing them. When you look around on youtube, it appears that it's a bit of luck of the draw with their units, as some of them had widespread issues (heat exchanger on some furnances failing very early, etc). that said, the houses on my street that had the A/C units when I moved in 8 years ago still have the same units.

[Mark Bolton]

The looking into it I've done the goodmans that had issues were older units as we're the issues with warranty card submissions. The units I've dealt with are installed by reputable dealers who handle and submit all their own paperwork to meet manufacturer warranty and will service or even replace a faulty unit and fight with the manufacturer on their own.

I think where Goodman got in trouble early on is they would sell units to anyone and everyone. This meant many, shall we say, "thrifty" homeowners had jack leg, start up, trunk slammer, installers install their units to save a buck. Goodman paid the price for this with their reputation.

One of our subs, who is one of the higher priced hvac contractors in the area, has been installing Goodman for 15 years or more with absolutely no complaints though they would much rather you install a trane. .

As for moisture it all goes out of the residence regardless of the unit. Sealed combustion is sealed combustion. Of course in the higher efficiency units the combustion condensate is either gravity fed to drain or via a condensate pump if needed.

Efficiency is efficiency. If your at 80% and can move to 94% when the time comes it's just simple math. You just have to carry it out over the life of the system, if your thinking of resale, systemy cost, and the big one whether you have the money in the bank (usually the big problem)

[Kev Williams]

Goodman-- I had one installed 5 years ago, a 110k btu unit that replaced a 130k btu Airtemp. I've been nothing but pleased with it-- my equal pay gas bill dropped over $30 a month after the first year, went back up a bit the second, and since then my bill is around $25 a month less than before the Goodman. After 5 years it doesn't act or sound any different than the day we got it...

[Jerry Thompson]

Our Trane AC/Heatexchanger is over 25years old and we have had two small problems with it. The cost was small enough that I do not recall the amount. When it goes I will get a cheap unit because it will out live me. I don't want to buy another person's unit.

[Greg Portland]

Is there a reason you're looking @ a gas furnace vs a heat pump?

Both of those furnace options have low efficiency burners, I'd investigate options with a higher AFUE. Run the numbers, you're likely to make the difference back after a few years. The electronic filtration works well for me in our home (bad allergies otherwise). I would only get the e-filter *if* I went with the continuously variable fan. That will allow you to move & filter air continually (at a low fan speed) without running up a huge electric bill.


It's hard when an installer gives you options on trane units that run up into the teens, and then a Goodman that may be in the single digits. But you get what your pay for.Agreed. I'd also look at Lennox, Carrier and York... their high end stuff is similar to Trane in terms of quality and features. Installation quality overrides equipment quality... make sure you've got an installer who is highly rated.

[Larry Frank]

I put in a new furnace and AC a year ago. I went with a Lennox and have been very surprised and pleased at the reduction in energy costs. The one thing I learned is that the variable speed blower motors are a big source of the increased efficiency.

I went with a 96% efficient furnace and my heating bill in the northern part of Indiana was significantly less this year than last in spite of a much colder winter. My electrical bill went down 35% last summer with the AC. Older furnaces and AC units use a lot of extra energy.

[Pat Barry]

Trane and American Standard are made on the same line but they are not the same unit. The trane does have different (better) components than the American standard. Whether or not those components are enough to justify the bit extra is up to the customer.

Most installers offer the Trane and then some other lower cost brands but if you can swing the Trane they are worth every penny. We've had customers go with them on two recent jobs and they and I have been very happy. Two other jobs though have gone with Goodman systems and even though they are considered a low end manufacturer I have been pleasantly suprprised.

It's hard when an installer gives you options on trane units that run up into the teens, and then a Goodman that may be in the single digits. But you get what your pay for.
We put in a high efficiency American Standard furnace and AC unit last fall. Over this winter it worked great. Quiet, efficient, saved me quite a lot on natural gas bills. Looking forward to the AC season. Unlike what Mark said, I found American Standard to be on par or better than Trane. I think Trane units have a higher price margin but they are not better. Maybe they used to be, but not anymore. I don't recall the model numbers we got. The furnace is a 97% efficient unit, the AC is 15 SEER

[Stephen Tashiro]

Is there a reason you're looking @ a gas furnace vs a heat pump?

Both of those furnace options have low efficiency burners, I'd investigate options with a higher AFUE.

The main reason for using a conventional gas furnace is that the house already has provisions for a gas furnace, but It has no provisions for the drain that a high efficiency furnance would need. It's "slab on grade". There is no crawlspace.

What would be involved in installing a heat pump system in such a house?

[Bruce Page]

The main reason for using a conventional gas furnace is that the house already has provisions for a gas furnace, but It has no provisions for the drain that a high efficiency furnance would need. It's "slab on grade". There is no crawlspace.

What would be involved in installing a heat pump system in such a house?

Our home is also on a slab. Our HVAC installer installed a Diversitech condensate pump in the furnace closet that pumps the condensate up through the attic, roof, and out to the rain gutter.

[Stephen Tashiro]

Our home is also on a slab. Our HVAC installer installed a Diversitech condensate pump in the furnace closet that pumps the condensate up through the attic, roof, and out to the rain gutter.

I have a high efficiency (i.e. "sealed combustion chamber") furnace in my own house. The drain system has caused problems (even though I do have a crawlspace). The guy who installed it knows how to fix it. He's a one-man outfit. If he's not available and I call other local outfits, they have a hard time because they have no experience in working on such furnaces. They aren't common in this part of the country.. So I'm leary of putting one in my friends home.

[Brian Elfert]

What would be involved in installing a heat pump system in such a house?

A heat pump is basically an air conditioner with a few extra parts to enable it to pull heat from the outside air when you need heat in the house. The install is about the same as any central air conditioner. Heat pumps really work best in moderate climates where it isn't below freezing much. Sometimes in Minnesota they are used in conjunction with a gas or propane furnace, but I'm not sure the extra cost for the heat pump in Minnesota is worth it if you have natural gas. If you burn propane in Minnesota I would say it is worth it.

[Greg Portland]

The main reason for using a conventional gas furnace is that the house already has provisions for a gas furnace, but It has no provisions for the drain that a high efficiency furnance would need. It's "slab on grade". There is no crawlspace.

What would be involved in installing a heat pump system in such a house?
I have a condensate pump that pumps it into my laundry room drain (other side of the wall). Our installer added a few cleanouts which make getting a brush in there for cleaning very easy.

A heat pump install is the same as an A/C install. You'll have the compressor outside and then the heat exchanger in your stack (w. a fan). Depending on your climate you may elect to install a gas furnace or electrical heating strips (in the air handler) to give you that extra heat on cold nights. I have a very efficient heat pump and I only see our gas furnace kick on when it gets below 20F.

[Greg Portland]

Brian, I thought his location was in New Mexico?