What is more practical-1 large DC or several small?

[Carter Forbes]

Hello, I need help outfitting the new shop we are acquiring next month. Trying to decide on how many DCs to go with.
My question is based on the following:
1. We have 19ft ceilings. Dropping the lights will be work in itself. Don't really want to have the need for scissor lift after that to hang DC duct wire that may need to be moved later.
2. There is plenty of space- so no issue there.
3. What is the cost of starting and stopping smaller units versus running an exterior golioth all day.
4. Smaller unit are cheap.

I thought I'd keep my 2hp for Planer and band saw. Get a 5hp for the Shaper and Jointer that are coming. Continue to use a cleanable catch cabinet for SCMS,
and add a 3hp for the TS. (DC at TS is pathetic at 2hp grounded) I mean the bag fills up, but not as fast as the floor from the angle slot in front.

I thought breaking it up might keep the shop running smoother so not everything is stopped while cans are emptied?
Kind of a NEWB on DC so lets hear what ya'll think.

I hate all the doors! Definitely going to add interior wall to cut it in half. This will let me hang things and separate woodwork from finishing

[Peter Kelly]

You'll want a larger, more centralized system if you're planning on adding a CNC router, widebelt, moulder, etc later on. Definitely easier to install ducting while the shop is an empty space too.

[Carter Forbes]

Yes, cnc router for sure, but we are getting a 5 or 7 axis robotic arm. At this point, I'm not even sure those types offer dust collection. Getting those vendors to call you back is impossible. I know they have DC for a 3 axis and that alone i gues is reason enough to get a large unit. Do you have a hp recommendation?

[Jim German]

Defiantly go with a larger centralized system. Then you can have one that's mounted outside where noise will be reduced and the need for good filtration is minimized.

[glenn bradley]

I'm with Jim. If I could get my DC outside and unencumbered by the task of making the return air breathable I would be in heaven. Currently I run a small 2HP cyclone for most things with a small bagger for the jointer and planer which are too far away for the cyclone to be really effective. All my return air has to be breathable so filtering is intense and restrictive.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Carter, will this be a commercial shop or is it a hobby shop?

There may be legal requirements for the dust collecting system if it's commercial.............Regards, Rod.

[Mike Wilkins]

Whether it is pro or hobby, try to bundle the larger machines together to reduce the amount of duct needed. If it were me and I had that much real estate, I would go for a 5HP cyclone housed in an attached room, with provisions to return air to the interior. Blast gates to the machines not in use will assist in air flow to the running machine. You could utilize a smaller portable unit for things like a router table or SCMS.
My opinions are free.

[Peter Kelly]

Yes, cnc router for sure, but we are getting a 5 or 7 axis robotic arm. At this point, I'm not even sure those types offer dust collection. Getting those vendors to call you back is impossible. I know they have DC for a 3 axis and that alone i gues is reason enough to get a large unit. Do you have a hp recommendation?I would get as large a unit as you can possibly afford. As others have stated, an outdoor dust collector is the best way to go. Clean air and less noise in the shop is essential.

Not the cheapest game in town but I’d recommend Onieda. http://www.oneida-air.com/static.asp?htmltemplate=static/industrial.html

If you do a rough sketch of the shop layout and send it to them, they can advise as to what the best system and layout of ducting would be.

[Jeff Duncan]

I've gone back and forth with that decision as well. I have a 7-1/2 hp cyclone that takes care of most of my equipment and a couple smaller collectors for things like the RAS and chop saws. I'm also moving shop and have thought about moving from the cyclone to a multi bag collector just to cut down on time spent emptying the bags. However I like the cyclone for the wide belt as there's no noticeable loss of flow even sanding all day! I think having a single main collector makes sense with maybe several smaller ones for various needs. Most of the shops I've seen once you get past 1 or 2 employees have more than one collector. I think it's hard to size a single collector for those types of shops.

Anyway the thing I'd advise is to plan it out and be ready ahead of time. It shouldn't take more than a day or two at most to hang a smaller sized system, say 60' of main and 8-12 drops. So an extra couple days of scissor lift would not be my primary deciding factor. I also wouldn't think the electrical cost difference would be all that much? I know in my shop the single phase panel costs a LOT more than the 3 phase panel. Meaning my lighting is the costliest thing going!

good luck on your new shop!
JeffD

[Erik Loza]

+1 for Oneida. Great folks, great service.

I agree: One centralized system is best. More work and cost on the front end to set up but much more efficient and a better long-term solution.

Good luck with your plans.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Jim Neeley]

A recommendation for an unasked question would be to also plan your layout to place your tools requiring maximum suction and generating the most debris near the dust collector. Not a deal maker/breaker but good optimization.

Jim

[Michael W. Clark]

I assume this is more than a hobby based on the building and equipment you list.
It is very common to have one main collector that handles most of the major machines, then dedicated collectors for other operations. For example, I've seen some CNC routers that are enclosed and require a lot of SP to exhaust them properly. These often have a dedicated collector so the main (larger CFM) system doesn't need to generate the high SP.

Rod has a good point about the commercial aspect. If your installation/operation is subject to any inspections by the fire marshal or insurance provider, they may want you to be NFPA compliant. If so, this may stear you toward the single stage collectors (baggers) and multiple systems depending on the CFM. The last I checked, baggers (open type) under 5,000 CFM had much less requirements than enclosed (baghouse or cyclones) systems over 5,000 CFM.

Mike

[Carter Forbes]

Hi Carter, will this be a commercial shop or is it a hobby shop?

There may be legal requirements for the dust collecting system if it's commercial.............Regards, Rod.

Not exactly sure how to answer that correctly. I do commercial work, but we won't be doing any advertising or be open to public.
It is all for our stores. We wont be selling anything directly, just supplying ourselves and franchises.

[Carter Forbes]

Just got in today. Will check out ONEIDA and send them plans. We have a large property (Could fit 4 of those buildings on it). We will have several extra personal vehicles, bikes, RVs, Storage buildings, Shipping Containers from time to time, Horses, etc., so I'm sure we could pass it off as hobby if we had to, but see no reason why we can't meet commercial specs either. I will check out the requirements. If an inspector can't get buzzed in at the gate, I guess it would be a hobby shop! :-)

[John Lanciani]

Just got in today. Will check out ONEIDA and send them plans. We have a large property (Could fit 4 of those buildings on it). We will have several extra personal vehicles, bikes, RVs, Storage buildings, Shipping Containers from time to time, Horses, etc., so I'm sure we could pass it off as hobby if we had to, but see no reason why we can't meet commercial specs either. I will check out the requirements. If an inspector can't get buzzed in at the gate, I guess it would be a hobby shop! :-)

If anyone who is working in the shop is being paid to be there its a commercial shop, period. If or when something bad happens you don't want to find out the hard way that it's not a "hobby shop" any more.

[Jeff Duncan]

John is correct, paid employees make it a commercial shop. Also if you have your shop insured, (which I'm assuming as a business you would), if ever there's a reason for the insurance company to come in, they can cause you a lot of grief if your not up to current standards. Say for instance one of your guys gets injured and you have to file through workers comp. That's almost guaranteed to get you a visit….you probably don't want to ignore that guy buzzing at the gate;)

The good thing is as your planning it out ahead of time it's not really all that difficult to make things comply. Any of the businesses that supply professional dust collection should be able to steer you in the right direction.

good luck,
JeffD

[Carter Forbes]

Commercial it is. I've had my little shop just over a year. New to the distinctions. Been residential all my life.