Exotic Wood Question

[John Emwonk]

I bought a quantity of koa last June.

For some reason I have a deep interest in Koa.

The pieces are irregular, some 3 inches thick by 11 inches wide on one end, and 3x7 on the other, about 36 inches long. Others are 3x9x24, with wide surfaces not square.

I stored it inside flat on a shelf since then, and am now noticing cracks running through several of the stock.

Is this because I bought wood too green? Because I stored it wrong? Waited too long to use it?

I paid $50 per bf for highly figured and curly koa.

I'm going back to Hawaii in August and would like to get more, but I don't trust my ability to handle wood of that cost.

Any suggestions?

[Mark Kornell]

John,

The cracks are more than likely the result of the koa drying. Hard to say if it was the result of it not being dry enough when you bought it. But consider that the humidity in Hawai'i is higher than just about anywhere in the continental US during the winter. In other words, regardless of what moisture level it was at when you bought it, it probably did some more drying over winter once you brought it home.

About the only way to deal with this is to seal the ends of the boards to try to slow down the drying process.

[John Emwonk]

Thanks for your help.

does this mean the wood is ruined?

I'm new to this, and assuming cracks have to be worked around; material for a project cannot have a crack in it, or is there a way to fix it?

[Herr Dalbergia]

Hello,

a bit confusing...you a new to woodworking, buying highly figured Koa 3 inches thick and wondering about surface checking?
What do you want to do with the Koa, are you into tonewood / guitarbuilding?

Of course, when you take 3 inch thick slabs of wood, and srote them inside on a shelf (inside, and shelf sounds very dry...) they will crack, everything would crack....

cheers, alex

[John Emwonk]

I bought the first batch for somebody to make into canoe paddles. Done. I also want to build jewelry boxes, knife handles, crosses, simple projects from a couple of the woodworker magazines, a magazine storage holder, picture frames.

So what should I have done so they won't crack?

What do I do now to stop it from getting worse?

I had no idea this would happen. There is still a lot of usable wood. Not everything cracked.

P.S. At this point I would be happy to simply do whatever it takes to stabilize it, and cut it into stock. For knife handles of different sizes, etc. The short term goal being square and stable stock in sizes suitable for making a variety of items. Then perhaps selling some of it (after it is in stable form) it to cut my losses. I'm seeing knife blanks for $20. I can make and offer a lot of those, after I get the stuff square and stable. I have what I need for squaring except for a thickness planer. And skill.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

You got a good deal at 50 bucks for highly figured koa. Especially at that thickness. I would think highly figured koa would fetch a lot more than 20 bucks for knife blanks. Just my $0.02.

Have you worked with koa before? It does not do well in a thickness planer. It's VERY chippy. Especially curly koa.

[Jim Sevey]

John-

A few suggestions for your Koa. Re-saw it into sizes/thicknesses that are useful to you and paint the end grain. You can use latex paint or melted parrafin. This slows down moisture loss out of the end grain and will help in controlling shrinkage as the wood dries. Stack the wood with thin strips between layers (called stickers) and let it dry. This is a link to an article you might find helpful. Good luck. http://www.woodmagazine.com/materials-guide/lumber/how-to-succeed-at-air-drying-lumber/

[Wade Lippman]

I have had some success putting Captain Tolley into end cracks and clamping. No promises, but it has worked for me.
http://www.captaintolley.com/
I love the stuff; don't know why it isn't more popular.

[John Emwonk]

You got a good deal at 50 bucks for highly figured koa. Especially at that thickness. I would think highly figured koa would fetch a lot more than 20 bucks for knife blanks. Just my $0.02.

Have you worked with koa before? It does not do well in a thickness planer. It's VERY chippy. Especially curly koa.



Thanks for your help.

I have not worked with it other than some cuts and sanding during attempted knife handle making.

If it doesn;t do well in thickness planing, how do I get it square? I have a router table with a 2-1./2 inc bit, a 6-inch planer, a table saw and 1 14-inch band saw with a re-saw blade.

[John Emwonk]

John-

A few suggestions for your Koa. Re-saw it into sizes/thicknesses that are useful to you and paint the end grain. You can use latex paint or melted parrafin. This slows down moisture loss out of the end grain and will help in controlling shrinkage as the wood dries. Stack the wood with thin strips between layers (called stickers) and let it dry. This is a link to an article you might find helpful. Good luck. http://www.woodmagazine.com/materials-guide/lumber/how-to-succeed-at-air-drying-lumber/

Thanks for the article. This has been stored in my non-damp basement, stacked flat on the floor, and then on a shelf. Since last June. Am I too late to save it? There still is a lot of wood with no cracks.

[John Emwonk]

Here's what I'm talking about:

The bottom board is about 11 inches on the wide end, and about 7 on the narrow end. Few if any of the wide sides are parallel or the same thickness, and the boards are no longer quite flat.An other example : One board is 24 long, 9 wide on one end. 10 wide on the other end. 3 inches thick on one side, and 3.5 inches thick on the other.

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[John Downey]

John-

A few suggestions for your Koa. Re-saw it into sizes/thicknesses that are useful to you and paint the end grain. You can use latex paint or melted parrafin. This slows down moisture loss out of the end grain and will help in controlling shrinkage as the wood dries. Stack the wood with thin strips between layers (called stickers) and let it dry. This is a link to an article you might find helpful. Good luck. http://www.woodmagazine.com/materials-guide/lumber/how-to-succeed-at-air-drying-lumber/

Good advice there. The way to control splitting and checking is to slow down the moisture loss - most woods won't check when dried slowly. I don't know about Koa, some woods are notoriously difficult to dry well.

If the checking is fairly advanced, but the wood still not dry, you may need to cut the ends past the checks for the end sealing to work. If the wood is down to less than 20% MC or so, the checking is probably done. You need to know how wet the wood is. Lee Valley sells a good inexpensive moisture meter. I usually hammer in a couple finish nails to use in place of the pins, then just touch the pins to the nails to read.

You can probably still use the checked wood for stuff like knife scales and pen blanks.


Thanks for your help.

I have not worked with it other than some cuts and sanding during attempted knife handle making.

If it doesn;t do well in thickness planing, how do I get it square? I have a router table with a 2-1./2 inc bit, a 6-inch planer, a table saw and 1 14-inch band saw with a re-saw blade.

Mesquite is the same way. You joint and plane with very sharp blades and often use a widebelt sander to get to final thickness. A friend of mine has also had great luck with carbide insert tooling in his planer.

For knife handles you can rough it out and then send it off to be stabilized. A lot of knife guys like their blanks stabilized regardless of what kind of wood it is. Burls have to be done because with just a normal finish the wood shrinks and swells too much for a lot of wood to metal fitments. Non-burl wood hardly moves at all along the grain so it's not strictly necessary for something like a knife where the wood-metal joints are at the end grain. But it would probably be a good selling feature for you, pre-stabilized blanks.

I've sent burl wood gunstocks to K & G Finishing in Alpine AZ. The price is by the pound for finished wood, last batch that came back must have weighed 20-30 pounds and cost about $120 with return shipping. A lot of what they do is with dyed resin, so if you want clear resin as I do, you'll get a faster turn around time by sending a big batch to stabilize. Just a piece or two sits and waits until they have enough jobs to start a clear run.

I've always wanted to try some Koa, but the price always scares me off! :D

Edit:
That doesn't look too bad. Not going to be a table top unless filling with black epoxy is acceptable as we do for mesquite, but you can definitely get small project wood out of those ends.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

You can mill koa just as you do for any other wood. It's just that it's very chippy, and when you do run it through the planer, you'll need to account for the chip outs. I guess what I'm saying is that you should not expect to get finished koa straight out of the planer. Mill it a little fat. Same for the jointer. I joint, then cut on the table saw, then flip the board, skim cut the chipout off. It seems like a tremendous waste, but that's the way I do it. If you have some high quality spiral cutters in your machines, that probably eliminate oll of my concerns.

Oh, koa heats up fast, be mindful of that, since you got some thick stuff. If you are planning to run that through the table saw. I had some thick koa actually stop my saw blade beause it heated up and clamped down on the blade. Pretty scary, just a heartbeat away from a good kickback.

That is some nice looking koa. Real good score on the price. The cracking is normal I think.

[John Emwonk]

Thanks

So if I get a spiral planer, I'll be OK? And follow the other suggestions about painting ends? The wood isn't ruined yet?

Is another option selling some of it to offest the cost?

I can get a bunch of this in Hawaii for $50 per bf. Is it worth commingling an importer? Would people on the mainland want it? Via ebay and classified here?

I can get 24 inch pieces most easily. Priority mail is cheap in their 24-inch boxes. They will hold about 3 BF. Longer than that and the shipping starts getting to $70 and up.

[Moses Yoder]

Thanks

So if I get a spiral planer, I'll be OK? And follow the other suggestions about painting ends? The wood isn't ruined yet?

Is another option selling some of it to offest the cost?

I can get a bunch of this in Hawaii for $50 per bf. Is it worth commingling an importer? Would people on the mainland want it? Via ebay and classified here?

I can get 24 inch pieces most easily. Priority mail is cheap in their 24-inch boxes. They will hold about 3 BF. Longer than that and the shipping starts getting to $70 and up.

Yes, you can make money off of wood. If you do it right, you can get very rich in a hurry. There will be a pile of devastation behind you, but who cares?

[John Emwonk]

Do I detect sarcasm? What's with the devastation comment?

[Moses Yoder]

Sorry but you do not come across as someone like George Nakashima who is in love with wood. The very thought of wanting to profit from cutting down a tree appalls me to a certain degree. Yes, woodworkers make money from wood, but most make a comfortable living if that and most importantly they love what they are doing. I can't tell what you are thinking from what you write but it comes across as though you can buy this stuff for $50 a bd ft and then cut it into little bits and make a bunch of beer money in your spare time. There is no love for the wood, no respect for the tree in that process. I apologize if that offends you and you have a great deal of respect for the wood. If I did it I would assume the market is already flooded with knife scales since anybody with a table saw can make those and I would look into maybe making veneer so the wood goes further and making sure the harvest is sustainable.

[Dan Hahr]

Who cares if he loves the wood? If you can afford $50 a bf, you can probably afford to fly to Hawaii and get some yourself. If I understand correctly he's buying it for $50 and trying to make a living offering something that we would all snatch up if we could find it. He's not logging it and how do you know where it's coming from or whether the harvest is sustainable? One good eruption and it might all go up in smoke anyway...
Dan

[John Emwonk]

Sorry but you do not come across as someone like George Nakashima who is in love with wood. The very thought of wanting to profit from cutting down a tree appalls me to a certain degree. Yes, woodworkers make money from wood, but most make a comfortable living if that and most importantly they love what they are doing. I can't tell what you are thinking from what you write but it comes across as though you can buy this stuff for $50 a bd ft and then cut it into little bits and make a bunch of beer money in your spare time. There is no love for the wood, no respect for the tree in that process. I apologize if that offends you and you have a great deal of respect for the wood. If I did it I would assume the market is already flooded with knife scales since anybody with a table saw can make those and I would look into maybe making veneer so the wood goes further and making sure the harvest is sustainable.

After a great newcomer experience, when everyone as been 100 percent kind, helpful, giving, encouraging, and really smart, you have made yourself the first exception. Get out some popcorn and learn what's really happening here. It is a twisted tale of woodworking stupidity, and it has nothing to do with riches or beer money. My confession is far more embarrassing than your judgement of me should be to you. With this post you can criticize me based on fact instead of sanctimonious prejudice.

I'll start by hoping you have the moral foundation to criticize making profit from natural resources -- that you own no possessions made from natural resources that have involved money.

First, I absolutely love Koa. I think it means warrior in Hawaiian. I also respect the state motto of Hawaii, which translates something like "The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness." Finally, I just learned a few minutes ago that Koa sales are highly regulated, so I'm going to assume that the lumber yard where I bought my first batch -- and the Hawaiian Lutheran pastor who I paid to send me more -- were both reputable. I work full time with farmers on sustainability. So take care scolding me about sustainability.

This latest binge started not with profit motive, but with with canoe paddles. I saw them in tourist shops over there for ridiculous prices. I found a guy in St. Louis who makes beautiful hardwood paddles for about $100.He agreed to make me some Koa paddles. I looked for a year online for Koa, and found only high prices and flaky online dealers. So when I was in Hawaii last May, I went shopping on location. I picked up about $240 for 5 bf of Koa, thinking I would get the canoe paddles made and try making some knife handles for family and friends. Silverware handles, etc. Something simple. Then I found out I got a really good deal, and figured I would try to make some other stuff, eventually, and bought some more via the pastor contact.

Meanwhile, as the paddles were being made I realized my vision far exceeded my grasp. I didn't have a single tool. So I paid the paddle guy $20 to slice one of the planks into strips that could become knife handles. He charged $200 to make the paddles. The wood was about $75.

I enjoyed wood shop in high school 33 years ago. A redwood cross I made in eight grade is in my entry way. I decided to get into woodworking. I also have a way of plowing into things, compulsively. This is a classic example.



Koa strips in hand, I bought a $30 sander at Harbor Freight. Decided that quality was bad, and bought a Ridgid spindle sander.
Then I realized I would need something to drill the handles with. So I bought a used drill press.
Then I realized I would need something to shape the handles with. And bought a used scroll saw.
Then I started making knife handles. After the second one, I learned I was short on tools. (Even shorter on skill.)
Next, a band saw to resaw he wood I bought. And make my own lumber out of other wood.
Then, a used craftsman 113 table saw to replace my cheap new craftsman. Then v belt and PALs. (It still needs a fence)
Then came a couple of used hand planes. And a jig and stone to sharpen them with.
Two florescent lights so I can see.
Safety glasses
And a router and table.
Squares from Amazon
Then a propane heater and two tanks so I can work when it's cold
A Wixley thing to see if the saw blade is square.
Then a dust collector, which I had to customize from a floor unit to attach to the garage wall so I would have room.
Then a new workbench to put gear on.
Then I made the bench shorter to make room for the drill press, which I moved to make room for the table saw.
And a used Delta 6-inch jointer
And one of those things that looks like a comb that takes a shape.
Subscriptions to two woodworking magazines


My passion became making a wood shop. Mission accomplished. Now onto the wood. Not so fast....

Then I had surgery and got knocked out for 3 months.

So far, a knife handle I simply broke to start over. Another ugly knife handle I broke to start over. And a really nice handle I dropped and broke just before the finishing was to start.

My idea about selling was to make a little money to offset my stupidity. Not beer money or to get rich. Do you have any idea how long it would take to offset the crazy purchases I listed above?

So.... do I love Koa as much as George? I don't know George or whether my love is as pure as his, but here is the journey:



Hawaii -- 1999 -- Bought a rocker that my ex wife nursed our daughter in. It was a steal for $1,300. They sell for far more now. Out of reach.
The chair seller threw in a chunk of stump wood to be used for a stock for a pellet gun. -- Freew
Pellet gun stock ($125 for rough. I sanded it.)
Cutting board - 1991
Jewelery box for fiance - 2011
Jewelry box for me - 2011
Watch box for me -2011
Paddles - 2012


Finally, 23 board feet of koa. So I could make my own stuff. Now I want to make something with it, but I realize I need to start this new hobby with pallet wood. Where I should have started in the first place.

This is an embarrassing confession. I know it's ridiculous.

If there is one bit of good that has come out of this it's to prove what a gem I found in Chris. All through this she has smiled, and asked "When am I going to get my bedroom set?" Now she simply says no more tools. The good news for her is there is no more room. The bad news is she's going to be waiting awhile. The first Item I'm making is a small cross for my daughter. I'm a long way from a furniture set. It will happen right after my astronaut application gets accepted.

But I had another scary realization:

It got hot here finally, and I opened the garage door to cool it off while I'm working and bugs came in. Now I need one of those heaters and air conditioners. Which means I need to insulate my garage. But selling Chris's house and adding to ours will have to come first. Meanwhile I'll plow ahead with the knives. Then a jewelery box. And make the most of what I have to work with. I found a retired shop teacher who will give me lessons.

So I get the prize for the biggest dumb-##s in the forum. And you get the prize for being the first guy to be ...well...not cool.

Here are photos of the things I will pass on to my daughter, showing why I love koa. Is it not the most beautiful wood? God created it with a very special touch.


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[John Emwonk]

Who cares if he loves the wood? If you can afford $50 a bf, you can probably afford to fly to Hawaii and get some yourself. If I understand correctly he's buying it for $50 and trying to make a living offering something that we would all snatch up if we could find it. He's not logging it and how do you know where it's coming from or whether the harvest is sustainable? One good eruption and it might all go up in smoke anyway...
Dan

Thanks for the rescue. But I have miscommunicated. I have no intention of making a living with Koa. Selling some was just a thought to offset some of the cost for wood - most of which I am unlikely to use for a long time. If I sell half, I have more than I need, and some money to offset the wood shop cost.

I'm going back to Hawaii for our honeymoon. Whether I get more then is a big question. I'll need to see if I can make any encouraging progress using what I have between now and then.

[John Downey]

If you're enjoying yourself and the results of your work, don't pay too much attention to what others think. Opinions are cheap on the internet, and we seem to hold on to them with a tenacity inversely proportional to their value :D

If you are going to sell some of your wood, get the drying/checking situation sorted out first. Having a bunch of returns will really bring you down in a hurry. Easiest way is to get a meter and make sure that any wood you sell or use is below 10% MC, preferably below 8%, though that may not be possible where you live without a kiln.

Just out of idle curiosity, is there any chance that those splits and checks were there already and you just didn't notice them?

[John Emwonk]

Hi John

Your formula for the inverse relationship between opinion tenacity and value seems on target. I will need to watch for that in myself.

Yes, I've enjoyed collecting the tools and building a woodshop, but I'm feeling some pressure to put that energy into action. The surgery really slowed me down. I'm still 3 weeks from getting my arm back.

The splits were not as large last June if there were there at all. What's a check?

The good news is I did as told in the thread and got some (can't recall the word) to put between the boards. I used four slats each. When I unshelved the wood I found only two of the prices have long cracks. Another has a small one. I will paint the ends ASAP with some old latex paint.

Here are 6 of the 8 boards on hand. I think they are beautiful and can make some nice projects. But I will start with "pallet wood" and leave the koa alone except for the already-cut stops for the knives until I have a faint clue what I'm really doing.

I feel I got a good deal. There was a small store selling scraps with almost no figure or curl for about $140/bf. that was tourist bait, but still....

A first goal after the cross for my daughter Ava is a plan for an iPhone perch/wooden amplifier I saw in a wood magazine a couple of months ago. It looks basically like the only risk to the koa would be to make a base that looks like a small wooden rectangle with angled edges (I don't know the name for). The "horn" on the device is a lighter wood. I think she would like it.

if I do sell any it would probably be to somebody local who knows more about what he is doing than I do, and who can see before he buys.

How much do you think is a fair price. (Market value, mainland.). I really don't even know I want to sell any.

Thanks again for being so helpful.

[John Downey]

A check is a small crack from shrinkage during drying. They're seen either on the end of a board or on the surface and usually don't go all the way through. Though I've never looked up an actual definition, my feeling is that they tend to be small. Splits tend to be larger cracks, shakes are similar but follow the wood grain. I've the impression that you only see checking as the result of too rapid drying, whereas splits and shakes can also have other causes. I tend to saw wood with any of them with some caution, as their presence tells me this board may move a lot and pinch the saw blade.

That is some beautiful wood there :D I'm afraid I don't have much of an idea of fair value, I rarely see it for sale. You could try searching completed auctions on ebay, that would give you a pretty good notion of prices.

From the shapes of the pieces and your description of the varying thickness, I wonder if they're cants from the sawmill. That's the bit left over after sawing planks off a log, something for the feed mechanism to hold on to. Those are thicker than I'd expect though (I've never done any sawing, just have an idea of how it's done).

[Myk Rian]

Checking is what your pictures shows. Checks are cracks.
That is some beautiful wood. How did you get it stateside? Luggage?

As an aside, a fellow showed up at one of our WWing club get-togethers with a chunk of it. He had a map of one of the islands, and intended on carving a topographical from the wood. Very cool idea. I have a few small pieces from when he trimmed it on the band saw, and intend on making a pen out of it.

[Jim German]

Wow, thats alot of pretty wood. gotta be like $2k worth of Koa there. It sounds like you've got more dollars worth of wood than of tools.

[Moses Yoder]

Thank you for the clarification. That makes me feel better.

[John Emwonk]

Wow, thats alot of pretty wood. gotta be like $2k worth of Koa there. It sounds like you've got more dollars worth of wood than of tools.

And more of both than skill.

[John Emwonk]

Checking is what your pictures shows. Checks are cracks.
That is some beautiful wood. How did you get it stateside? Luggage?

As an aside, a fellow showed up at one of our WWing club get-togethers with a chunk of it. He had a map of one of the islands, and intended on carving a topographical from the wood. Very cool idea. I have a few small pieces from when he trimmed it on the band saw, and intend on making a pen out of it.

My daughter and I went to a grocery store and got boxes and a bunch of tape, and then took it to the PO. Shipping 5bf cost about 120.

my pastor contact was smarter. He got 24-inch priority mail boxes and shipped the other stuff for about $8 per bf.

Luggage would be prohibitive expensive.