What do you hit your holdfasts with?

[Frederick Skelly]

I bought a couple Grammercys 2 months back and love them, just like the archives said I would. I somewhere got the idea that a clawhammer was an appropriate tool for both setting them and releasing them. (I was beating the devil out of my wooden mallett.) But I just noticed they are getting dinged-up on the top (from setting them) and on the back (from releasing them).

Is this normal wear and tear on hold downs? Or, am I screwing up my neat new holdfasts.
Should I use a different hammer?

Thanks guys.
Fred

[Joe McMahon]

I would never strike them with a steel hammer. Get a beater wooden mallet or a nylon faced hammer instead. Better yet, make a wooden mallet from your scrap bin.

[Tom M King]

More times than not, a scrap of 2x4

[Steve Friedman]

I vote for steel hammer. Second choice would be dead blow mallet. When you find the sweet spot to hit, you won't be beating it up that much. Leather pad helps.

Steve

[Sam Stephens]

i don't think a steel hammer would be my choice either. I prefer a rubber or nylon mallet of good weight. You don't have to hit them all that hard to get a good hold.

[Mike Allen1010]

Dead blow mallet-same for chisels.

[Shawn Pixley]

Rawhide mallet. Never saw the need for much else.

[george wilson]

NEVER a steel hammer!!!!! Hitting them with a steel hammer will eventually work harden the top of the holdfast,causing it to crack and fail. I only ever hit mine with a wooden mallet. Dead blow hammer,plastic hammer is o.k.,but never a steel hammer. They used to hit their hold fasts with steel hammers in the cabinet shop,which really got on my nerves,because those poor hold fasts looked mushroomed badly,and were getting very splintery around their edges. OSHA came along and made the cooper's shop grind off the splintery edges of their steel barrel hoop drivers(which they thought were really looking GOOD!!). They must have never noticed the hold fasts.

I got "shot" twice in the shoulder by someone beating on a crowbar with a steel hammer while taking a large crate apart. Luckily it wasn't in my eye. I was about 15 then. The chips dissolved,I guess. They were never taken out.

[Frederick Skelly]

Well, Im glad I asked. Now I know better and Ill use something else.

Thanks guys!

[Joe A Faulkner]

Shop made jointer's mallet which now has a leather face. I need to make a new handle; just haven't made this a priority.

[David Weaver]

dead blow mallet, or also it's yet another place that the urethane faced wood is good mallets are excellent. You can nail a hold fast with them and they show no evidence of it. One mallet to set the hold fasts and drive all of your chisels.

[George Vincent]

HF 2 lb dead blow hammer
289230

[Tony Wilkins]

Haven't ever used a steel (or any metal) hammer/mallet/etc. Most of the time I use my 20 oz WIG chisel mallet as it's always handy.

[Richard Krushner]

I have not used holdfasts extensively, however when I have, I have been surprised that they require relatively little force. Striking material should make less difference with less force. The majority of the time I have seen metal. This video is interesting from the english woodworker (http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=1329&doing_wp_cron=1399959630.6163229942321777343750) on the subject.

[Jim Koepke]

Often mine are set by hand. Just put some weight into it.

My Sjoberg bench doesn't seem to hold up to them being driven hard.

Count me as another who wouldn't use a metal face to strike a holdfast.

jtk

[Jim Stewart]

+ 2or3 on the deadblow hammer. These are also useful for putting joints together. Cheap as well!

[Warren Mickley]

I have used a hammer for setting and loosening a holdfast since 1978, same hammer, same holdfast. You can see the evidence of this on the holdfast, from many years of full time work, but it is still quite functional and will certainly outlast me. I know people who use wooden mallets, but of course the mallets look like crap and it seems that it is hard to find one in their shops that has not been thus abused. In contrast the dogwood mallet (1979) I have used for maybe six or eight thousand mortises is still in fine shape. My rawhide mallet (1972) is in good shape also.

Andre Roubo says Le maillet sert a serrer & a desserrer le valet [The mallet is used to fix and loosen the holdfast], but I don't think it any fun to use a beat up mallet for this task or to be making fresh mallets periodically.

[Michael Fross]

Rubber mallet for me.

[george wilson]

You certainly could see it on the flat topped 18th. C. style hold fasts in the cabinet shop. They were beaten over badly,with shaggy metal spread out all around the edges. Just waiting to get pinged off and fly somewhere. Those hold fasts were used hard and daily.

It is easier to make a mallet head once on a while,but not possible for most home woodworkers to make themselves a hold fast.

[Pat Barry]

I think if you need to use something other than a wooden mallet to get your hold fast to hold (fast) then you might have a problem of some kind with your doggy holes, bench thickness, etc. On the other hand, striking one of those guys with a regular claw hammer, at the force needed to set the hold fast, really shouldn't cause a problem inside the useful life of most woodworkers. If you are really wailing on the poor things because they aren't working the way they should then you might want tofigure out whats wrong.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I had opened this thread and did not read it until later. Not looking back at the title, I read where you said you had two Gramercys and I immediately thought we were talking about saws. I read on and on about all these people beating their saws (I thought) with hammers before I looked back at the thread topic. I thought, "Good grief, is this how people are setting their saws these days?" Haha. Had to share that.

[Harold Burrell]

*****whatever*****

It's kind of funny, but...whenever I read a thread like this and think, "Hmmm, that's a good question." And then I start to read the responses, whenever I come to a "George Wilson" response, well...that about does it for me.

I mean, I always kind of look at his thoughts as the definitive answer. Seriously. Especially when it comes to stuff like this.

But then, everybody knows, that I want to be just like him when I grow up. :D

[David Weaver]

In terms of limited things within arms reach, you guys that don't have any cabinet of any type under your bench, that's too bad. I have a horrible bench, me and jim koepke have a bench that would get us kicked out of a woodworker's club.

But one thing mine has (and I don't know about jims) is a cabinet that does not go all the way to the bench. That leaves a gap between the cabinet and the bench which is an ideal place to put things you reach for often. I have about two dozen things squirreled away under there and I can get them without looking.

If I ever build a better bench, it will have the same feature. Hitting the holdfasts with a wooden mallet (which I do from time to time) takes no additional time because i can reach under the bench and grab it. If I had a good mallet, I could avoid using it by reaching under the bench, setting the hold fast with the mallet that I grabbed and then dropping it under there again - without having to go to a wall somewhere and without having to reach in drawers or cabinets.

(I also can't stand the sound of metal on metal unless I'm intentionally striking metal (or I guess a saw on an anvil is metal on metal on metal))

[Daniel Rode]

I have the same bench. It is horrible but also, good enough that I can't bring myself to spend the time and money to make a proper workbench. Mine has a cabinet below with a gap that allows me enough space to use holdfasts and dogs.

However, I have a truly awful pair of cast holdfasts. I started using a steel hammer. If they break, then I have a need to buy the Gramercy holdfasts.


In terms of limited things within arms reach, you guys that don't have any cabinet of any type under your bench, that's too bad. I have a horrible bench, me and jim koepke have a bench that would get us kicked out of a woodworker's club.

[David Weaver]

I have the same bench. It is horrible but also, good enough that I can't bring myself to spend the time and money to make a proper workbench. Mine has a cabinet below with a gap that allows me enough space to use holdfasts and dogs.

However, I have a truly awful pair of cast holdfasts. I started using a steel hammer. If they break, then I have a need to buy the Gramercy holdfasts.

Welcome to the club. I broke one of those without attempting to break it and thus the gramercy holdfasts. I wouldn't wait to buy them, they are so much better than the cast ones and they are inexpensive enough that they're worth having. I thought for a second about going up the street to rockler to get another one to replace the one I broke (which I could've essentially done indefinitely), but the idea of paying $12 for something that's junk instead of $40 for something that is completely indestructible was an easy decision.

[Frederick Skelly]

Welcome to the club. I broke one of those without attempting to break it and thus the gramercy holdfasts. I wouldn't wait to buy them, they are so much better than the cast ones and they are inexpensive enough that they're worth having. I thought for a second about going up the street to rockler to get another one to replace the one I broke (which I could've essentially done indefinitely), but the idea of paying $12 for something that's junk instead of $40 for something that is completely indestructible was an easy decision.


The Grammercy really ARE nice.

Once again, thanks for your advice guys.
Fred

[Bob Glenn]

I never hit mine with a steel hammer. I just cringed a couple weeks ago when C.S. used a steel hammer on a couple holdfasts on Sir Roy's show. Yikes, I thought he knew better!

[Tony Wilkins]

I never hit mine with a steel hammer. I just cringed a couple weeks ago when C.S. used a steel hammer on a couple holdfasts on Sir Roy's show. Yikes, I thought he knew better!

Me too!!! And it seemed as if he made a point of it by picking the steel hammer instead of a wooden mallet nearby IIRC.

[Pat Barry]

Steel hammer?



http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-guide/product-finder/gramercy-tools-holdfasts.aspx

Seems like its the way to do it!

[Jim Matthews]

I use the same 20 ounce "soft face" Stanley mallet I use on my chisels.

It's heavy enough to set, or release the holdfast.
It won't mark the steel.

The Gramercy holdfasts are really tough.
I doubt you could damage them, as they're the same sort of industrial
wire used to make bridge cables. They're not cast iron.

That said, the only metal I strike with a metal hammer is in nails.

[ray hampton]

I never hit mine with a steel hammer. I just cringed a couple weeks ago when C.S. used a steel hammer on a couple holdfasts on Sir Roy's show. Yikes, I thought he knew better!

when you say hammer " are you talking sledge hammer or tack hammer ?
after you pound holdfast in the same hole for a thousand time WILL the dog hole enlarged

[Zach Dillinger]

Whatever I have handy, usually my wooden mallet Mjolnir, but sometimes a hammer. It doesn't really matter, as you shouldn't have to club the thing to death to get it to hold.

[Mike Holbrook]

My favorites are: Veritas Cabinetmakers mallet (metal head with wood inserts 18oz.), heavy, homemade froe mallet made from a 2-2.5" white oak log, handle whittled with drawknife & spokeshave, THOR Mallet with nylon heads (can be swapped for other types of heads, including leather).

[Joe Close]

A thought... A friend of mine was using a hammer, striking another metal object, not a nail, and a flake of the struck object about the size of your pinky finger nail came off and went straight into his eye. He lost 100% sight in that eye. All my life I've known of that hazard in the back of my mind. But you often don't give it much thought. After my friends incident, when it comes to striking metal on metal, using safety glasses is in the forefront of my mind now. I don't know about most of you, but working at the bench with a hand plane, I'm not wearing safety glasses. So using a metal hammer on a holdfast would be disruptiv to the work flow for me.

[Frederick Skelly]

A thought... A friend of mine was using a hammer, striking another metal object, not a nail, and a flake of the struck object about the size of your pinky finger nail came off and went straight into his eye. He lost 100% sight in that eye. All my life I've known of that hazard in the back of my mind. But you often don't give it much thought. After my friends incident, when it comes to striking metal on metal, using safety glasses is in the forefront of my mind now. I don't know about most of you, but working at the bench with a hand plane, I'm not wearing safety glasses. So using a metal hammer on a holdfast would be disruptiv to the work flow for me.

Thanks Joe. Your story is sobering. I think that was George Wilson's concern too - metal debris.
Fred

[George Vincent]

I watched a video on line today in which Chris Schwartz hit a hold fast with a steel hammer in every instance where he used a hold fast. I have seen Roy Underhill use a wooden mallet when hitting his holdfadt.

Personally, I would hate to ruin my wooden mallet by hitting a holdfast or risk a metal chip shearing off or ruining the peen of my nail hammer by using it to hit a holdfast. I will stick to using my dedicated dead blow mallet to hit my holdfast.

[ray hampton]

If you could drill and tap your holdfast FOR a drawbolt that would keep it tight

[Frederick Skelly]

HF 2 lb dead blow hammer
289230

I just happened to have one like this that I bought online someplace. Tried it today and it worked super!

Thanks to all who gave me advice here. Much appreciated!
Fred

[Mike Holbrook]

In Schwarz's video "The Workbench" he uses what may look like a metal hammer on his holdfasts. The tool is actually a Veritas Cabinetmaker's Mallet, which does have a metal body, but closer inspection reveals that there are actually wood inserts in both striking faces. There are quite a few old mallets that have metal bodies and various types of inserts in the striking surfaces. I even have an "antique" metal mallet with leather striking surfaces, with Holbrook in big raised letters on the side. The more "modern" THOR mallets offer metal heads with a variety of nylon, rubber, leather...threaded inserts that provide a multitude of striking surfaces. THOR mallets and hammers are available with an astonishing variety of handle, head and striking options.

[Eric Brown]

I suggest the Wood is Good mallets for hitting holdfasts. Nothing gets hurt and they aren't noisy doing it. Here is one source:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/EE-170-10.XX