Powermatic Model 15 Questions...

[Bill Carr]

Greetings community! I feel blessed in that last Saturday, I went to an estate sale that my local woodworking club (NTWA) sent an email out for. I was only one of two people that showed up and not only did I meet some really fine folks, I got what I feel to be a great deal on a bunch of equipment. $2650 for the following:

Lie-Neilsen No. 4 Bronze plane beautiful!
9 Bessey clamps including 5 kr3(s)
a lot of very nice spalted, birdseye and quilted maple planks
1 Oneida 2 stage dust collection (V-system 1500 type from 2002)
Enough 6,5 and 4” duct to plum my garage with blastgates
1 Powermatic model 60A 8” jointer (very good condition) (no helical head, yet…)
1 Powermatic model 15 15” planer (very good condition) (no helical head, yet…)
1 60 Gallon lightly used Kobalt A/C (2008 model) and…
One very heavy duty hand crafted workbench with a Veritas® Twin-Screw Tail Vise and a Jorgensen Rapid Acting Bench Vise w/serveral brass bench dogs.
I currently have a Dewalt DW735 13” planer and I’ve had real good luck with it. I’ve been reading a lot of folks not liking the heavier floor model planers due to rollers leaving marks on the wood, not as forgiving for finer cuts, snipe and inability to quickly set the depth of cut. This particular planer has the infeed and outfeed rollers and not the cast iron beds. My questions are as follows:
Is it better to have the cast iron beds rather than rollers? Will this help with the snipe?
What is the difference between the model 15 and model 15S planers? I know the HH is helical head and I plan on putting a byrd sheilix in both of these bad boys…
Are these type of planers really that unforgiving when it comes to marking up the work piece with the cast rollers or making lighter passess? If so, can the cast roller be replace with stiff rubber rollers like whats in the lunch box planers?
The dewalt has a chip extractor that forces the chips into the duct collection hose. I’ve read some folks complain about chip extraction on the PM planer… Does it force the chips out like the dewalt? Is this really a problem with this planer?
I’d like to think I have a good planer here and maybe it just needs to be dialed in correctly.
Thanks in advance for your reading and considering this…
regards,
bill

[Bill Graham]

Answers:

1) if you're running jointed faces down or S2S lumber you can drop the rollers and just run on the bed. If you ever skip-plane rough stock, leave the rollers up. I have mine set at .004 and the planer works fine with either, no snipe.
Edit: Thought you were talking about the rollers in the bed, my planer has the cast iron infeed/outfeed beds. If you get them put washers on the bolts, keeps the bolt heads from digging in and moving the beds when tightening. Don't ask.

2) 15S has disposable, self-indexing spiral cutters, 15 has three straight knives that have to be adjusted when removed and re-installed.

3) Not sure what you're asking, no issues like that with my 15HH. Don't know about rubber rollers, they may be out there but I never needed to look. Tip: wax everything.

4) No blower on the PM like the DW, just make sure you have enough dust collector to keep up. It doesn't take much, my Rockler wall-hung collector has no problems. Never heard of this being a problem, run a board through and stand behind the planer while it's going through, see what you think(put on your safety glasses). Never saw a planer that had any issue with throwing shavings across the room, down the hall and anywhere else in the immediate vicinity.

You scored big time, spend some time on setup following the instructions in the manual and you'll have no worries. Don't forget the chip breaker height, this can cause snipe if too low. The Oneway Multi-Gauge is great for setting up planers and jointers, well worth the money.

Another tip: get the digital height gauge, the analog one on the planer is hard to see. Google "Jet DRO" and pay the $150, it's miles ahead of the Wixey equivalent.

HTH,
Bill

[Cary Falk]

The 15s had a flexible disposable knives that was bolted around the head in a spiral configuration. I have my Grizzly dialed in to get rid of the infeed and outfeed marks. unless I take the slightest of cuts. I also complete took the bed rollers out of the picture. There is a rumor that the Delta rollers are rubber coated and somebody replaced them on a non Delta machine. With Delta being what it is I am guessing you can not get the rollers anymore.

[Jim Andrew]

Sounds like someone should call the police. Think I'd check with Grizzly and see if their helical head would fit your machine. Nice score!

[Larry Frank]

I do not know about your planer but many of the 15" have a serrated infeed roller to better grab the board and push it through. If yo do not take a deep enough cut, you will see some of the serrations on the board.

I find it a little harder to get to an exact thickness with my 15" planer. When making things like face frames or paneled doors frames it is really nice to have all the wood the same exact thickness. I have better results taking the last pass or two on my DW735 to take of several thousandths at a time.

You have a lot of equipment that is new to you and it will take some time to become familiar with each one to get the best performance of them.

[Bill Carr]

I'm tellin ya... The woodworking gods smiled down on me Saturday! (my gf would disagree though... lol)

[Bill Carr]

Thanks for the reply Bill...
1. ok... won't ask :), but I'll make note!
2. I see.. thanks for the clarification.
3. one person was complaining about the marked up surface from the infeed and outfeed rollers. Another suggested that the chips may not all be extracted and falling on the surface of the wood and then getting pressed into the grain by the outfeed roller... It's a stretch and I highly doubt it.
4. lol... I think I'll pass on standing behind it and letting the chips pummel me. My DC should be fine as it's pulling nearly 600 CFM at that port.

Thanks I know the woodworking gods were smiling down on me saturday for sure. I defiantly have a learning curve ahead of me and luckily this guy not only took very good care of his gear, he kept every piece of paper associated with his tools, so I have all the manuals.

I have a couple of the Wixey Digital Height gauges. I'll put one on it when I get it home.

[Bill Carr]

Cary,

How did you take the bed rollers out of the picture? Why do you think you're getting snipe on small cuts?

[Bill Carr]

Yes you're correct... I do have a lot of new stuff that'll each have it's own idiosyncrasies. Do you think a Wixey or some other DRO would help you to get .000 you're looking for? I was going to sell the 735 due to space and recoup some costs, but sounds like I may need to keep it around a while.

[Cary Falk]

Cary,

How did you take the bed rollers out of the picture? Why do you think you're getting snipe on small cuts?

I adjusted the rollers below the bed. I was getting snipe and the boards would lift up and slap down on the infeed table.

[James Baker SD]

I did not carefully read all the responses, just scanned them but did not see an answer to your question about the infeed and outfeed tables. I probably had the same PM planer with the rollers. I never really had a problem with the rollers but felt somehow it looked like lower quality than the newer PM15 with the cast iron tables. So I ordered from PM a set of the cast iron tables without contacting customer service first. Stupid me, they are not interchangeable. One planer's main table is machined dead flat (probably the one with cast iron extension tables), the other is machined slightly convex so that the cast iron tables rock when placed against the roller planer's main table. Plus the hole pattern is not the same, so even if you machined a surface flat, you would still have a problem. PM graciously offered to take the cast iron tables back at my shipping expense, but UPS and FEDEX wanted more than 50% of refund value to ship them so I thought maybe they will come in handy for something. Bottom line, if your planer has rollers for the infeed and outfeed tables you are probably stuck with them, but as I said I really never had a problem with them.

[joe maday]

James ...swap out the steel infeed/outfeed rollers for rubber coated rollers from a delta 15" planer...it will eliminate the pressed-in serrations when taking light or finishing cuts on the surface of the boards. Somtimes they do not show up until the finish is applied and swells the surface.

[James Baker SD]

Joe,

I sold the PM15 a couple of years ago. All I have now is the 2 cast iron tables. :-)

[Bill Carr]

Good to know James... Thanks for the heads up.

[Matt O'Connell]

How hard is the swap to rubber coated rollers?

[joe maday]

Matt,
My experiance is that changing the rollers was easy. I exchanged both the infeed and the outfeed from steel to rubber coated rollers in my planer. I have used Reliant (out of business) rollers in and older Jet planer, and then used rollers from a Delta in a newer Jet planer (all 15" machines). You do not need to open the gear box, just remove the outer cover. Then with the bed cranked down, take the pressure off the rollers by backing off the spring (were you put in the drops of oil on the top casting). then the rollers can be droped down (one bolt on each side), bushing and all. reverse to install then increase the pressure by the allen head cap on the spring to were it was before. usually level or just below the casting. That is described in the owners manuals.

[Matt O'Connell]

Do you know where and what part number the rollers are?

[Cary Falk]

The Delta 22-790 had a Poly outfeed roller but a serrated infeed. The part number for the outfeed roller is 1349339. It is $136. I'm not sure if this is the part nuber that Joe used.

[joe maday]

The number is/was 1349339, sears $156, ereplacement $153, toolparts $136. I belive all the Delta 15" import planers used the same outfeed roller. Check out the diagrams on the tool sites. I belive it is diagram item # 68 on all the part diagrams. I put the rubber/poly rollers in both the infeed and out feed of my Jet 15" planer and they work great.
Just checked, Delta Machinery has the roller for $136 but is not indicated if it is in stock.

[Bill Carr]

I just got off the phone with Phil @ Western Roller. www.westernroller.com 541.382.5643. If they don't have it, they can make it... Price isn't too bad either and made in the good 'ol USA!

[Cary Falk]

Just as an FYI, the Delta roller (part 1349339) will not directly fit in the Grizzly G0453 without a modification. The rollers are the same in every critical way except the distance between the 2 bearing blocks is about 7mm short on the Delta roller. That moves the blocks in to remove the lateral play and the springs won't line up in the recesses in the blocks. A spacer would have to be put on the opposite side of the gear box that is 20mm id x 31mm od x 7mm thick. I couldn't readily find anything to my liking that would work.

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[Scott Rychnovsky]

I assume the delta part is the lower one in the picture. Can you just add a 7 MM spacer to the roller to provide a proper distance for the mount? You could get a machinist to make something that is an exact fit, or you could use a stack of washers. Is there a problem with this adaptation that I am not seeing?

Scott

[Cary Falk]

Scott,
I had searched the web a spacer that I could press on the roller but couldn't find anything. Joe Maday sent me a link for Mcmaster Carr that I think will work. I don't know why I couldn't find them earlier when I was there.

[Scott Rychnovsky]

Cary, I hope it works out. McMaster-Carr is a great resource.

Scott

[Cary Falk]

So the rollers are in. I had to put 6mm of spacers on the gear box side and 1mm on the other side. The outfeed side needed about 6.5mm so I cut a piece of brass shim to hold the retaining rasher off the bearing block. While not quite as plug and play as the Jet they do work for anybody that is interested in trying. It took about 1 hour.
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[Tim De Valk]

Cary I know you stated the delta roller requires spacers on a grizzly, does anyone know if this delta roller is a drop in replacement on a PM15 (without spacers)?

[Cary Falk]

Cary I know you stated the delta roller requires spacers on a grizzly, does anyone know if this delta roller is a drop in replacement on a PM15 (without spacers)?

Somebody pull the roller from a PM15 and I will pull the Delta roller and we will compare meausrements.

[Bill Carr]

Hey Cary... Great job on the swap out... How is it working? I'm fixing to pull the cutter in my PM15 to put a byrd shelix in this w/e. I'm also planning on pulling the rollers out to replace so I'll let you know the dimensions.

[Cary Falk]

So far so good. I haven't used it much yet but it grips much better.

[Bill Carr]

Cool... Good to know.