15" Planer - General International, Grizzly, Powermatic, Jet, Shop Fox

[Ken Garland]

I recently bought an 8" Grizzly G0656P and I'm not extremely impressed with the build quality. However, I think that is simply due to what appears to be a sloppy casting - the machine work done on the surfaces is very accurate. A lot of paint chipped off and the iron underneath was somewhat rusted.

Anyways, this is not a Grizzly 8" Jointer review - it just puts Grizzly near the bottom of the pecking order for me when choosing this planer.

I don't know the EXACT difference between the follow three: Grizzly, Grizzly Polar Bear, Shop Fox. I know all three of them are from the same reseller (Grizzly) but as far as details are concerned (which factory, which batch of parts, which QA process, etc) it seems nobody REALLY knows. I've been to China and been in the factories for business and know that typically dozens of products come from the same manufacturer - depending on who slaps their logo on it decides who gets the high end parts and a careful eye on detail when assembling.

All that aside since we'll never know unless some reps come on here and spill the beans, would you all be so kind as to cast a vote for your favorite and share any details or experiences you have with comparisons. I have only owned Jet and Grizzly. I am currently leaning towards General International as their website has highlighted all of my manufacturing concerns.

Here we have the candidates:

General International 30-125HCM1 3 HP 15-Inch Planer with Helical Cutterhead - $2,936.40
http://www.amazon.com/General-International-30-125HCM1-15-Inch-Cutterhead/dp/B002KHNM56


Shop Fox W1742S 15-inch Planer With Spiral Cutterhead - $2,438.94
http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1742S-15-inch-Cutterhead/dp/B001OOHAOA


Jet - JWP-15HH: 15-inch Helical Head Planer - $2,754.99
http://www.amazon.com/Jet-JWP-15HH-15-inch-Helical-Planer/dp/B0011TEFZK


Powermatic 1791213 15HH 3 HP 15-Inch Planer with 230-Volt 1 Phase Byrd Shelix Helical Cutterhead - $3,079.97
http://www.amazon.com/Powermatic-1791213-15HH-230-Volt-Cutterhead/dp/B001GOEPF0


Grizzly G0453PX Planer with Spiral Cutterhead Polar Bear Series, 15-Inch - $1,849.13
http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G0453PX-Planer-Cutterhead-15-Inch/dp/B003TNF87K

[Jim Andrew]

I could only recommend the GO453px, because I have one. And I like it fine. The planer was on the Grizzly sale catalog I received, is it over? Was thinking it was 1695. Saw a post where someone had a Grizzly planer, and it was out of adjustment, so he sold it and bought a Powermatic. Had to laugh, pretty expensive adjusting.

[scott vroom]

Not a chance.

[Dave Verstraete]

I'll pass also

[joe maday]

I suggest comparing again, the amount of cutters on the heads, the warranties, for the price between the General 2yr, jet 5yr and Powernatic 5yr, I would choose the Powermatic. (your sure to get a byrd head, shearing cut, which would be best on figured woods in my opinion). If on a budget a Grizzly straight knife machine and installing a Byrd head would be around 2000. Then again if you were able to purchase a used planer and put in a byrd head then more would be saved. So on one end Powermatic, the other used and install a byrd head. Simple right? (Ha, Ha). Most parts are interchangeable, there are some differences, usually in the gearbox (seals/gaskets). I picked up a used Jet, put in a Bryd head from Holbren, then put in rubber coated infeed and outfeed rollers (Delta 15" rubber coated outfeed rollers are interchange able in both positions). Very happy with the results and the whole project was under 2000.00

[glenn bradley]

I voted with the one I decided on so I don't know that it is a recommendation as much as a testimonial. The G0453Z is Grizzly's take on the same format that several colors of paint use. They all have the same awkward gearbox fill/check point but, you only use this about every year after the initial 20 hour break in period. Like several others it uses steel serrated feed rollers but, these are designed to be adjusted to your stock type and I set mine very light as I normally use only semi-rough stock. Factory default is for rough stock and has quite a grip. The dual feed rate is a plus and I added a DRO which works very well for me. Dust collection is quite good with my 2HP cyclone about 25 feet of 6" pipe (reduced to 4" at the machine) away.

[joe maday]

Glenn,
On my Jet 15" planer, I was having problems no matter how "little" presure was set on the infeed rollers. when taking that final clean up cut to assure all the boards in a project were the same thickness, there always was some sort of inprint from the infeed. I purchased the rubber coated outfeed rollers that are in the delta 15" planer... i got them from sears parts..they were the cheapest at the time. ( now I think Steel City is the cheapest). anyway I swaped them in the outfeed and the infeed positions. No more inpressions, no more worries. they grab the wood better than the original serrated roller wet or dry, rough of smooth. no adjusting. We have done this on several 15" planers and have recently purchased a used 20" Powermatic planer and will try to hunt down rubber coated rollers for that. It is a worthy upgrade, along with the bryd head it should be standard equipment or at least an option from these companies.

[Mikail Khan]

If you are willing to spend $3100 for the powermatic, I would consider the Grizzly 20" planer G1033X for $3200. I bought mine through amazon seven years ago. The only maintenance I've done with it is change oil. The serrated rollers leave marks if you take a cut of 15 thou. or less. This has not been a problem for me.

MK

[Cary Falk]

I voted for the one with a history of: 0 mechanical issues, 0 Customer Service issues, and perfect fit and finish straight out of the factory since the company was founded.;)

[Steve Juhasz]

I voted for the one with a history of: 0 mechanical issues, 0 Customer Service issues, and perfect fit and finish straight out of the factory since the company was founded.;)

You must've also voted the same way in the last 6 or so federal elections? ;)

[Paul McGaha]

Well, I voted for what I have, a Powermatic 15HH.

I got in November/2009 during one of their 15% off sales. I think the pricing on it was about $2,000 at the time. I've been very happy with it.

My shop is about half Delta and half Powermatic. It just kind of turned out that way more so than I planned it that way.

I'd be open minded to a tool coming from Grizzly. I'd buy from Powermatic and Jet again too. I think I'm done with Delta, really hate to say that but it's true.

PHM

[Ken Garland]

Glenn,
On my Jet 15" planer, I was having problems no matter how "little" presure was set on the infeed rollers. when taking that final clean up cut to assure all the boards in a project were the same thickness, there always was some sort of inprint from the infeed. I purchased the rubber coated outfeed rollers that are in the delta 15" planer... i got them from sears parts..they were the cheapest at the time. ( now I think Steel City is the cheapest). anyway I swaped them in the outfeed and the infeed positions. No more inpressions, no more worries. they grab the wood better than the original serrated roller wet or dry, rough of smooth. no adjusting. We have done this on several 15" planers and have recently purchased a used 20" Powermatic planer and will try to hunt down rubber coated rollers for that. It is a worthy upgrade, along with the bryd head it should be standard equipment or at least an option from these companies.

Think it is worth trying rubber spray? I have a few cans of it that I've used for different projects and it might work well for that.

[Ken Garland]

I voted for the one with a history of: 0 mechanical issues, 0 Customer Service issues, and perfect fit and finish straight out of the factory since the company was founded.;)

Which one is that? The votes don't attach names to it so I have no idea which one you picked.

[Cary Falk]

Which one is that? The votes don't attach names to it so I have no idea which one you picked.

Ken,
It's none of them. I thought the wink would have given it away... I wrote some other stuff but deleted because in the end it doesn't really matter. Buy whatever color you like and come back here and defend your choice because everybody will not agree with you.

[Matt Day]

My vote is for none. Since these 4 post planers have basically been the same for 30 years except for maybe the CI outfeed and infeed tables in some, buy a nice used one for 6-700 and install a Byrd head in it or buy a drum sander.

[Brian W Smith]

I "used" to get my supplier to run stock through a 2 headed planer cheaper than we could pay for the electric doing it ourselves.............so;

Just to say we had a planer,snagged a 453X,spiral head.It's been a workhorse.The only thing is,you probably should punch a hole in the lower cabinet and mount a QD airline fitting.....to which we connect shop air hose.It's aimed right at the thermal overload/motor.It takes longer to explain than to implement.We don't use it all the time,but when we're runnin some serious ftg,it get's connected.Not really a slight on the machine,but the motor on this genre IS buried inside a cabinet and isn't getting much airflow.......which explains why old arn has their motors often times outside of the machines footprint.

I still say,planing stock needs to be looked at more of as a convenience,than anything else.Times are a changin though......meaning what we "used" to get done,now,ain't.

In retrospect,the Grizz has paid for itself many times over(which is a very deep subject,one that is more often than not,left out of these types of questions)....and there aren't any regrets.I've passed up,in the past....some pretty big,and stupid cheap......big honkin planers.It just isn't sumthin we make money at?Will this change,now that planer mills are all but non-exsistant?Hard to say.It isn't a space or electrical requiremant thing....we have loads of both(ha).But,I won't be getting rid of the Grizz,in anycase.Good luck with your decision.

[Jim Andrew]

I almost went with the G1033x, but have a neighbor who has the 453px and after he demonstrated it went with the GO453px. Agree, rather than go with the more expensive PM, just step up to the better grade Grizzly. They have many more expensive models if you have a lot more money. It is just that the GO453px is just so much value. And I really don't need a 20" planer, if I were going wide would rather have 24, but to really plane everything in one piece, would really want one wider than 25". So where do you stop?

[Ken Garland]

My vote is for none. Since these 4 post planers have basically been the same for 30 years except for maybe the CI outfeed and infeed tables in some, buy a nice used one for 6-700 and install a Byrd head in it or buy a drum sander.

There is the rub. I can appreciate this is the same design they have been making for 30 years, and I also see the benefits of purching a used planer. I'm looking for something new and because of that I need information about current models and their build quality. I'm questioning Grizzly's practice of marketing 3 different lines of product with the supposed "same" design.

[Larry Edgerton]

None of the above. Its a mediocre planer no matter what color it comes in.

Larry

[Ken Garland]

None of the above. Its a mediocre planer no matter what color it comes in.

Larry

Hey Larry, can you share your idea of a quality planer.

[Danny Hamsley]

My Grizzly GO453Z is some of the best money that I have spent. Perfect surface, no snipe. Many thousand feet without having to turn the inserts yet.

[Larry Edgerton]

Hey Larry, can you share your idea of a quality planer.

I've owned a couple of planers with that design. I never could make them work as good as I liked, so bought an old PM 180 and rebuilt it. Much better and more consistent finishes, especially after I slowed down the feed rate a touch. All said and done I had less in the PM180 than I had in the Powermatic of the design being discussed here, and when I sold it I made a profit. I now have a SCM, but realize most people can't buy one if not doing this for a living, but that is the only reason I sold the PM180.

On the under $2500 dollar range I do not see one that outguns an old iron restoration for performance or dollars. Not as simple as picking up the phone, and will require some sweat equity, but the rewards are great. I did buy my SCM new, but have many old tools that serve me well. I just picked up a 3000 pound double spindle shaper for $750, cleaned it up and it works perfectly and can swing a 14" cutter. Thats about the price of a router table.

Larry

[David Kumm]

To Ken's question about a good quality planer. Larger diameter head 4-5" if possible. Chipbreakers as near the front of the head as possible with spring tension that is adjustable. Pressure bar as close to the back of the head as it can go, Springs on it are nice but more rare now. Adjustable tension for the infeed and preferably two outfeed rollers. Table rollers adjustable with a lever or kept below the table. Easy method of adjusting both to the same height and keeping them in line when moved. Or, just kept under the table. ( I'm not a fan of table rollers unless powered which is rare now too.) Good chain and sprocket movement of table with the ability to keep it level with head. Wide speed range with lowest speed below 16 fpm. Mass is important in a planer so heavier is better.

Having said all of that, a small 13-15" planer can perform as well as a larger ( or even better) for small furniture type work. Sizing rough 8/4 is a whole different game than planing legs for a table. You type of work and ability to adjust the 50 million things a planer needs to work properly dictate what type of machine you will be happy with. Dave

[Gus Dundon]

I think I read somewhere that Grizzly and Rikon planer come out from the same factory. Not sure with Shopfox
though. I've never own a planer but I've been thinking of buying one for a year now. I choose none from your list.

[Charles Coolidge]

I voted Powermatic 15HH, I have owned both the Grizzly and Powermatic. Its a tough call, I absolutely love the Grizzly 3 wheel mobile base its awesome compared to the PM which is kind of retarded. I had to swap a Byrd Shelix cutter head into the Grizzly which turned out to be a major PITA. Had problems with the serrated Grizzly outfeed roller pressing dents in the wood that had to be sanded off and getting chips stuck to the outfeed roller that then were pressed into the wood denting it. Smooth outfeed roller on the PM, so far no problems with chips getting crushed into the surface of the wood.

[scott vroom]

I've owned a couple of planers with that design. I never could make them work as good as I liked, so bought an old PM 180 and rebuilt it. Much better and more consistent finishes, especially after I slowed down the feed rate a touch. All said and done I had less in the PM180 than I had in the Powermatic of the design being discussed here, and when I sold it I made a profit. I now have a SCM, but realize most people can't buy one if not doing this for a living, but that is the only reason I sold the PM180.

On the under $2500 dollar range I do not see one that outguns an old iron restoration for performance or dollars. Not as simple as picking up the phone, and will require some sweat equity, but the rewards are great. I did buy my SCM new, but have many old tools that serve me well. I just picked up a 3000 pound double spindle shaper for $750, cleaned it up and it works perfectly and can swing a 14" cutter. Thats about the price of a router table.

Larry

Larry, you consistently rip lower cost tools on this site. I'm sure your tools are really awesome, but surely there are folks that have even better tools than you. The OP asked for differentiators between 4 specific brands. He wasn't asking for comparisons to higher end tools. Why do you feel the need to jump in and rip all 4 and then tell us how great your stuff is? I don't get it.

[David Kumm]

The perimeters of choices here make it tough as all choices are basically similar. Kind of like Ford Taurus vs Mercury Sable with different options and paint- or choosing among quintuplets. Hopefully no one means disrespect by adding alternatives in the same price range. Additional knowledge won't hurt. Dave

[Tony Joyce]

I think I read somewhere that Grizzly and Rikon planer come out from the same factory. Not sure with Shopfox
though. I've never own a planer but I've been thinking of buying one for a year now. I choose none from your list.
Just as a side note, all the planers listed above are manufactured by Geetech - http://www.geetech.com.tw/geetechE/sp.html

Tony Joyce

[Mel Fulks]

I see Larry's post differently . As an honest well intentioned opinion. I much prefer the old machines and see them as the
better deal. Yes, they take up more real estate, expensive to move etc. Still a better deal IMO ,too.

[David Kumm]

Just as a side note, all the planers listed above are manufactured by Geetech - http://www.geetech.com.tw/geetechE/sp.html

Tony Joyce

Also take a look at the Woodfast site, Qing Dao is the source of many machines. Dave

[Tony Joyce]

Also take a look at the Woodfast site, Qing Dao is the source of many machines. Dave

I cannot make a connection between the US major woodworking machinery brands and Woodfast(Australia)? or Qing Dao(China)? Please enlighten me. I'm always interested in learning where things are made.

The connection between Geetech(Taiwan) and China is Chiu Ting Machinery Co., Ltd.

Geetech lists among its customers.

Stanley/Black&Decker
DeWalt
Delta
Porter Cable
SawStop
Walter Meier
Jet
Powermatic
Grizzly
General International
Ridgid
Oliver - probably the main one
Laguna
Craftex
King
Woodworkers Supply

[Larry Edgerton]

Larry, you consistently rip lower cost tools on this site. I'm sure your tools are really awesome, but surely there are folks that have even better tools than you. The OP asked for differentiators between 4 specific brands. He wasn't asking for comparisons to higher end tools. Why do you feel the need to jump in and rip all 4 and then tell us how great your stuff is? I don't get it.

Because I have gone through that category of tools to get to what I have today and so know the differences. But you have convinced me that I should no longer offer my opinion.

Larry

[Larry Edgerton]

Just for reference here is an example of what I was talking about.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Powermatic-16-Planer-/261474493555?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

Larry

[Bill Graham]

Ken,

You're looking at the same machine in 4 different levels of trim. They're all made in the same Chinese factory by the same workers from the same castings, the only difference is the level of quality control that the individual resellers are willing to pay for. Better QC equals better bearings, better motors, closer machining tolerances, etc., they all equate to higher price. Good book for any woodworker looking to buy power tools is "Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the Chinese Production Game". While it doesn't deal with tools, it gives a a good look at the mind-set of the Chinese manufacturing industry in general.

Add in that only one of the versions you mentioned comes with the for-real Byrd Shelix head(there's a difference) and you'll see why I bought the Powermatic.

A note to Larry:

I know where you're coming from, I'm an OWWM member myself. I've traveled that path with 3 machines, one is in the shop, the other I could get to the point that I could sell it with a clear conscience and the last went to the recyclers at a tremendous loss. That one could be in the shop if I'd been willing to shell out $2K in machine shop time for a contractor saw. And I spent literally days spread out over months of what little spare time I have on these machines, time that could have been better spent building stuff.

Not all the members here have the mechanical ability or the time to spend restoring Old American Iron. I search Craigslist for "Powermatic" every morning, for every one of the 160's I've seen that look like the one you found on eBay, I've seen literally dozens that look like they were rode hard and put up wet or left outside in a leaky shed since Grandpa died 20 years ago. And all the sellers seem to think they're worth $1K+ just because they say Powermatic on the front and they're green. Here's an example from a local Craigslist broker: Powermatic E16 16" Planer. (http://www.theequipmenthub.com/listing/powermatic-e-16-16-planer/#.U3VqwyjC-eR) Almost $2K for a planer that's been repainted and is in "good working condition" which means the motor runs and a board might come out of it smoother than it went in. No mention of whether it will come out parallel on both sides, torn out or with burn marks because the feed rollers are bent and won't feed at a constant speed. Or whether the bed has been dished by years of slamming boards through it at too deep a cut. Or any number of other things that could be wrong with the machine that would require expert inspection before purchase to find and machine shop time to correct after you brought it home. Add in another $600 for a Byrd head and it's easy to see why most folks want to buy new. It ain't easy being green.

Like I said, I bought the PM 15HH and haven't been disappointed. It's the wrong color, it was made across the world but it arrived in good shape and is working with minimal adjustment. And I have a 5-year warranty if it breaks.

My $.25 worth,
Bill

[Charles Coolidge]

I search Craigslist for "Powermatic" every morning, for every one of the 160's I've seen that look like the one you found on eBay, I've seen literally dozens that look like they were rode hard and put up wet or left outside in a leaky shed since Grandpa died 20 years ago. My $.25 worth, Bill

This 8x40 is currently for sale for $2,500 on my local craigslist

289458

[jeff shanz]

Ken,

You're looking at the same machine in 4 different levels of trim. They're all made in the same Chinese factory by the same workers from the same castings, the only difference is the level of quality control that the individual resellers are willing to pay for. Better QC equals better bearings, better motors, closer machining tolerances, etc., they all equate to higher price. Good book for any woodworker looking to buy power tools is "Poorly Made in China: An Insider's Account of the Chinese Production Game". While it doesn't deal with tools, it gives a a good look at the mind-set of the Chinese manufacturing industry in general.

Add in that only one of the versions you mentioned comes with the for-real Byrd Shelix head(there's a difference) and you'll see why I bought the Powermatic.

A note to Larry:

I know where you're coming from, I'm an OWWM member myself. I've traveled that path with 3 machines, one is in the shop, the other I could get to the point that I could sell it with a clear conscience and the last went to the recyclers at a tremendous loss. That one could be in the shop if I'd been willing to shell out $2K in machine shop time for a contractor saw. And I spent literally days spread out over months of what little spare time I have on these machines, time that could have been better spent building stuff.

Not all the members here have the mechanical ability or the time to spend restoring Old American Iron. I search Craigslist for "Powermatic" every morning, for every one of the 160's I've seen that look like the one you found on eBay, I've seen literally dozens that look like they were rode hard and put up wet or left outside in a leaky shed since Grandpa died 20 years ago. And all the sellers seem to think they're worth $1K+ just because they say Powermatic on the front and they're green. Here's an example from a local Craigslist broker: Powermatic E16 16" Planer. (http://www.theequipmenthub.com/listing/powermatic-e-16-16-planer/#.U3VqwyjC-eR) Almost $2K for a planer that's been repainted and is in "good working condition" which means the motor runs and a board might come out of it smoother than it went in. No mention of whether it will come out parallel on both sides, torn out or with burn marks because the feed rollers are bent and won't feed at a constant speed. Or whether the bed has been dished by years of slamming boards through it at too deep a cut. Or any number of other things that could be wrong with the machine that would require expert inspection before purchase to find and machine shop time to correct after you brought it home. Add in another $600 for a Byrd head and it's easy to see why most folks want to buy new. It ain't easy being green.

Like I said, I bought the PM 15HH and haven't been disappointed. It's the wrong color, it was made across the world but it arrived in good shape and is working with minimal adjustment. And I have a 5-year warranty if it breaks.

My $.25 worth,
Bill

I like this post.

[Scott Rychnovsky]

Here is a nicer used Powermatic for sale in m area. I have no idea if it is a good deal, but I am sure I do not have the space for it. I find myself limited to fairly compact machines to fit into my garage & work area.

Is it a good deal?

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tld/4407429336.html

[Dave Verstraete]

Since your initial thoughts on the Grizzly had to do with "finish", you could buy the Grizzly and have an auto body man really jazz it up for you for $500. You'd still be money ahead and have a great planer to boot!:D

[John Piwaron]

I checked off the Powermatic box. But if I were looking to buy a big planer, I'd probably also look at European machines. I'm thinking Hammer.

General International wouldn't get a look from me. My experience with a General International table saw has left me very unhappy with that company. I'm not going to get on a soap box about it. I'm just not going to consider their stuff going forward.

This is the kind of machine that if you buy a really good one, it'll probably be the one you have for the rest of your life. Choose wisely.