Skew rabbett plane: am I using it right?

[Frederick Skelly]

Hi guys,

Is there anything obvious wrong with my technique here, or does it just take practice?

I bought an LV skew rabbett and small plow plane. The plow was very easy to learn. Im still working at using the rabbett. Today I cut a 1" wide rabbett that was 3/8 deep down the length of a pine board thats about a foot long. The rabbett kept getting out of square - sometimes low at the front edge of the rabbett (the 3/8" part) and sometimes a the back of the rabbett (the 3/4" part). I checked the blade - it was adusted to be square and level. I checked the fence - it was a uniform disance along its length and square.

I wasnt expecting to need to mark lines on the three edges of the rabbett, but when I tried that I was able to plane things more squarely (not perfect - Id already gotten too far out before I noticed the problem).

Is this normal learning curve that should improve with practice? Or am I doing something obviously wrong already?

Thanks guys.
Fred

[lowell holmes]

Watch the video at the link shown below. All will be revealed.:)

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/joinery/cut-rabbets-by-hand

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Fred

Were you using the plane as it came from the box? A couple of tweaks are recommended.

The first is a deep subfence, which will help keep the plane vertical at all times.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Raisingapanel_html_m3036ef83.jpg

The second recommendation is to sand all the steel rods with 120 grit and remove the shine. The smooth surfaces (so beautifully made at the factory) can cause the locks to slip, and this will then affect the lateral depth.

A third suggestion applies if the depth of cut varies. This is due to the depth adjuster slipping on the smooth rod. If this continues after the rod is sanded matt, the I would advise that the screw is slotted so as to enable it to be tightened more (which is better thab Chris Schwarz' idea of using vise grips). I have since done this to all my related planes. Here is my plow ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LV%20planes/Depth%20stops/PlowDepthstop_zps706a4fc8.jpg

This sounds a lot to do to a new tool, but they are a one-time tune up and made these planes fool proof.

The final point to make is about holding the LV Skew Rabbet Plane. This is demonstrated here. The emphasis is pushing from the side near the blade, rather than holding the front knob.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UsingRebatePlanes.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/UsingRebatePlanes_html_m333f5356.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Crawford]

Here is another helpful video (youtube, msbickford): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNibpT33FTI

[Simon MacGowen]

Hello Fred, A few things to try, in addition to the suggestions made by Derek (which however I have not found necessary -- see my comments at the bottom):

1) Do not wrap around the handle with all your fingers as there is a tendency to tilt the plane as you push. 2) After setting your final depth, cut the piece in multiple passes (meaning you start with thin cuts and adjust the blade to cut deeper as you go along) 3) Check your blade is sharp; if you need to push hard (forward and down) to cut, you may tilt your plane without knowing it 4) Use wax 5) Start your cuts from the front and work backwards, and 6) Check your posture or have someone video tape you and review your motion.

For practice and identifying where you may go wrong, try the above on pine or a soft wood and check your work after passes. In a class I taught, use of excessive force was the main culprit for many teething problems at the beginning.

The Veritas tool comes just fine with its factory settings and I have not made any changes to any parts, except for the aux. fence; instead of an aux fence, you can flush your workpiece to the workbench as shown in Chris Schwarz's video. In fact, "tampering" with a tool should be the last resort as it may void its warranty or obscure the real reason why you are not cutting square (which may include a defective product from the supplier).

Simon

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks guys. I watched the vids and studied your posts. Then I added a longer fence and changed the way I was gripping the plane. Those made all the difference for me - it was a pleasure to cut the next batch.

Many thanks!
Fred

[Winton Applegate]

or suffer the consequences and frustrations.

That way they have a reason to sell you the "New and Improved" version next year.

A side, side, side note:

Only about the slipping out of adjustment problems.

Vise grips ! Did CS really say that ? Nah, nah, nah, . . . Chris . . . dude . . .

maybe some small pliers but . . .
The slot is way better.

I am getting the vapors . . . here let me lye down on my fainting couch . . .
. . . that’s better.
Annnny way
What I have noted on many, other brands, of collet like things like those that grip the rods on the rabbet plane etc., are that the parts that are cone shaped have concentric rings along their length from being turned when manufactured.

These rings lock into the concentric rings on the mating part(s) and prevent proper function of the collet.
so
take small metal files and smooth these surfaces, maybe even then take some wet or dry emory paper to them (dry).
Clean out all the metal filings and grit. I would recommend washing them in solvent or soap and water.
Dry them thoroughly.
put some light machine oil on the threads AND the tapered collet surfaces.
Viola !
Tightly gripping collets ! ! ! !
And
You can enjoy your polished rods they grip to ! ! ! !
No need to sand the rods.

Now
about that depth adjuster.
Besure to clean out the threads, so there is no grit etc., to jamb the screw.
Grease the screw thread.

Another quick’O way to get more torque on the knurled knob is to drill one or three holes in the knurled area around the perimeter and stick an old drill bit or large nail or length of drill rod or allen wrench or . . .
you get the idea.

Like a capstan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capstan_(nautical)).

[Mike Rother]

I'm Still struggling with the Veritas skew rabbet plane. Seems like more often than not I get a sloped rabbet. Deeper towards the inside. Is it set up incorrectly? Do I have the blade projecting too much past the side? LV recommends the thickness of a sheet of paper.
I think my technique is ok. Push against the plane, avoid holding the knob, don't grip but push.
Maybe my technique isn't as good as I think?

thx

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe my technique isn't as good as I think?

One thing that helped my with my technique was a video by a young woman. She was using a Stanley 45 with a dowel in the extra depth stop holder. This allows the user to see how much they tilt the plane in use. After using my plane this way for a while it wasn't needed.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Jim

That was Alf (who unfortunately appears to have now given up on woodworking, hopefully for just the time being). The dowel does help as measure of vertical - however a deeper fence works best of all.

In addition to a deep fence, aligning the edge of the board with the side of a bench (as long as this is square to the top) will further the ability to plane a horizontal/square rebate. Extend this to a plough plane as well to plane vertical grooves.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

I'm Still struggling with the Veritas skew rabbet plane. Seems like more often than not I get a sloped rabbet. Deeper towards the inside. Is it set up incorrectly? Do I have the blade projecting too much past the side? LV recommends the thickness of a sheet of paper.
I think my technique is ok. Push against the plane, avoid holding the knob, don't grip but push.
Maybe my technique isn't as good as I think?

thx

Hi Mike

If the inside shoulder of the rebate is sloping down, it would be that there is not enough projection of the blade past the side of the body.

This is the only picture I could find quickly (recently when I set the Small Plow up as a rebate plane to plane sliding dovetails) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/SlidingDovetailsWithTheSmallPlow_html_20e67e57.jpg

Note that if you are planing across the grain, then the nicker (of the Skew Rabbet Plane - the Small Plow does not have one) must be in line with the blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Weaver]

Mike - check to make sure the depth of cut is fairly close to even across the width of the plane by taking a small scrap and running it down both sides. If the cut is even from edge to edge, then you know the issue is that you just need more practice. If it's not, then set up or hone the iron so that it is.

[Sam Stephens]

for all these reasons I prefer a wooden skew rabbet -no depth stop or fence to futz with. it's easier to use than you'd think and very repeatable w/ some practice. When I have to plane to a line, I pay attention to the line vs hoping the depth stop will "encourage" me to stop. The height of the plane also makes the vertical position relative to the board more obvious. JMTCW.

[Mike Rother]

Hi MikeIf the inside shoulder of the rebate is sloping down, it would be that there is not enough projection of the blade past the side of the body. Thanks Derek. To clarify:Seems counter intuitive to project the blade more if it's cutting deeper on the inside shoulder of the rabbet. I was actually thinking I might have it projecting too much from the side...Am I understanding you correctly?Thanks again