Who wants to make a really CHEAP bow or frame saw?

[David Weaver]

I do.

I don't have a lot of interest in frame saws, but I liked the very cheap setup that the guy in the chinese videos used. He had some threaded rod, and used a couple of what looked like split bolts to make an inexpensive bow saw.

The only trouble I have is finding a bow saw blade, so I ordered some coiled spring temper 1095 from mcmaster carr - 10 feet for $35 shipped. That's not that cheap, and I'll have to cut teeth, but I couldn't find anything suitable and I want to be able to fit it to length.

Given the cost of the coil, I don't imagine anyone else is going to want to try this on a whim, but here's what I'm going to do....make a saw with about a 15 inch toothline and 12 or 13 points, filed rip, and use two cheap bolts as pins. I will hacksaw the bolts and rough up their heads (so that they don't turn) instead of buying high priced pins available that cost more than I want to spend on the whole saw.

I don't intend to mark anything on the teeth other than half inches, and I'll do the teeth by eye from there - which has a lot to do with making the saw quick and without turning it into a science project.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I do.

I don't have a lot of interest in frame saws, but I liked the very cheap setup that the guy in the chinese videos used. He had some threaded rod, and used a couple of what looked like split bolts to make an inexpensive bow saw.

The only trouble I have is finding a bow saw blade, so I ordered some coiled spring temper 1095 from mcmaster carr - 10 feet for $35 shipped. That's not that cheap, and I'll have to cut teeth, but I couldn't find anything suitable and I want to be able to fit it to length.

Given the cost of the coil, I don't imagine anyone else is going to want to try this on a whim, but here's what I'm going to do....make a saw with about a 15 inch toothline and 12 or 13 points, filed rip, and use two cheap bolts as pins. I will hacksaw the bolts and rough up their heads (so that they don't turn) instead of buying high priced pins available that cost more than I want to spend on the whole saw.

I don't intend to mark anything on the teeth other than half inches, and I'll do the teeth by eye from there - which has a lot to do with making the saw quick and without turning it into a science project.

You want to have some fun? I'll lend you my Foley retoother for a few months and you can make all the saw plates, etc. you want.

[Steve Voigt]

Dave,
What is the width & thickness of the stock you ordered?

[Matthew N. Masail]

oo oh.

David, if I can't find what I'm looking for, for a price I can afford, I'm in. but I won't be using 1095 steel, maybe a soft (if I can find one) hacksaw blade, so my saw will be even cheaper.

[David Weaver]

Dave,
What is the width & thickness of the stock you ordered?

Just 3/4" .020 stock. I figure it's going to be either too narrow or too thin, but I'll know more about what it is or isn't after I try it, and be able to make one more order to correct the issue and have enough for every frame saw I'm likely to ever build.

[David Weaver]

You want to have some fun? I'll lend you my Foley retoother for a few months and you can make all the saw plates, etc. you want.

I've got nowhere to put something like that!

We'll see if I regret filing in the teeth after the first one. Estimated hardness is 48 on the stock, and .02 is very thin, so it shouldn't be too bad with small teeth. We'll see. If it burns out more than one bahco file, I'll have to reconsider what i'm doing. You can file small teeth in pretty quickly if you don't get too anal retentive about every tooth being the exact same size as every other tooth in the saw, and a little variation in tooth size doesn't affect anything in use.

[Steve Voigt]

Ah, OK. I'd be interested in finding a piece of .042 about 4" wide and 48" long, to make a Roubo style saw. The $70 that Isaac charges for a blade is absolutely fair, but it's more than this cheapskate wants to pay.

[ian maybury]

Coincidentally the use of the bow saw by the guy in the video caught my eye too. To the point that it triggered the thought that maybe the bowsaw (in various sizes) might be a good do-all single format alternative to the usual menagerie of different saws.

These guys in Germany do a range of Japanese made impulse hardened (and hence not re-sharpenable i presume) blades in different cuts. Don't know much about the quality or capability, but i have seem then recommended by a well known cabinet maker: http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/product/712971/Frame-Saw-Blade-Turbo-Cut-400-Universal.htm

The Turbo Cut blades seem to be in the US too: http://www.woodjoytools.com/bowsaws/ and http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/narrowturbo-cutbladeforclassic400framesaw.aspx Different blades here: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/bow-saw-frame-saws-blades.aspx

Could be the format is all wrong for anything very much. Thoughts?

[David Weaver]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#9036k896/=rw2nbo

You can get a ten foot length of it from mcmaster for $71 plus shipping, so probably somewhere around $80.

Presume you want to put teeth in it then, it'll probably burn up a couple of files.

[David Weaver]

Coincidentally the use of the bow saw by the guy in the video caught my eye too. To the point that it triggered the thought that maybe the bowsaw (in various sizes) might be a good do-all single format alternative to the menagerie of saws I currently have.

These guys in Germany do a range of Japanese made cuts, don't know much about the quality or capability: http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/product/712971/Frame-Saw-Blade-Turbo-Cut-400-Universal.htm

Yeah, I saw that. I don't have confidence in japanese universal teeth ripping as well as regular rip teeth, though, from experience. They would do well for dovetails, but I don't love the longevity of any impulse hardened teeth when the saw gets subjected to something hard. I loved my Z saws, etc, for a while, but I've noticed a lot of them are starting to get small parts of teeth snapped off, and it's enough of a problem now that they're getting grabby and the teeth that are left tall are coming off faster and faster.

Which leads to my point about the turbo cut blades - they're about $35 or something for the small ones, can't be resharpened, and have the same profile of teeth as my z and other universal saws have. I'm too heavy handed, I guess.

There are a lot of turning saws and other such things around, but I'm looking to do exactly what the guy in that video did, use a medium small tooth sized saw that's got no handles or anything on it, to cut dovetails and tenons. Cheap is important only because I don't need any saws, like most of us don't, but the swiftness he used those saws makes me want to give them a try. I also don't want to make pretty at this point, just mortise some bits together, mangle some bolts and threaded rod, and go.

[Brian Holcombe]

I have one now, I find it quite awkward to use. So it's dedicated to tasks where I have to pass it through an enclosed piece.

[David Weaver]

One of the turbocut frame saws, or just a bow saw?

I have a large rip bowsaw - a very large one. I always thought the bigger saws for joinery looked no better for use than my backsaws, until the chinese video where the guy is using a small and less tall saw, and doing so without any arthritis inducing turning saw handles, etc.

My large rip bowsaw is no asset at this point, it would need to have its handle extended to be useful so that it could be used like a frame saw. It's collected dust to this point and if someone local wanted it, I'd sell it. Its size and lack of value is the reason it's still around (it'll cost a bunch to ship and it's only worth about fifty bucks).

Anyway, the chinese saw looked lighter, less long, and better thought out for joinery cuts than any of the commercial saws i've seen. I noticed the guy adjusted the blade with pliers or a wrench instead of trying to put on some handle and pin setup that would be nice to adjust by hand (I prefer the chinese guy's method - make the saw simpler since you'll rarely adjust it, anyway).

We'll see - it may end up being a large waste of time.

[Brian Holcombe]

Mine is a bowsaw for the turbocut 400 blades. I can see it will be useful for very large joinery or joinery where I need to cut through an enclosed piece.

Generally speaking I much prefer backsaws given the choice. My most awkwardly large back saws are not nearly as unwieldy.

It does have the added advantage of looking awesome on the wall.

[Ryan Mooney]

Price per foot is fairly competitive for pre-toothed bandsaw stock. Unfortunately most of those have induction or impulse hardened teeth, don't know of any you can buy in larger widths that don't have induction/impulse hardened teeth (I see Olson has them but only up to 3/8" wide otherwise they're pretty close to what you'd want here)?

If there were some out there that didn't have hardened teeth it could possibly save the the bulk of the toothing work... which might well pay itself back.

[David Weaver]

I thought about buying bandsaw stock, too, something carbon steel without impulse hardened teeth so it would be sharpenable. It probably isn't a bad option if you can find something good, but I figured I didn't know if the bands were softer than the teeth still (I just don't know either way).

Rockler is up the street from me and they probably do have some cheap carbon steel blades that could be tried. If one could be had in a 10 tooth pattern, it might be worth trying. Most BS blades have a lot of set, but that could be stoned off, too.

I went with 1095 just because it's a known quantity, but there are probably a million ways to do it, and many of them good.

[Ryan Mooney]

but I figured I didn't know if the bands were softer than the teeth still (I just don't know either way).

Yeah I spent 20m looking around and most of them have impulse or induction hardened teeth so I'd generally expect the band to be a bit softer on those (makes sense as that would allow it to be more flexible). The Olson are the only ones I found for sure where they where hardened the same all the way through and had about the right range of hardness (R44-46) - I'd bet there are others - figured I'd drop it out there in case someone else knew which ones :D

[David Weaver]

That's a decent range. A 1070/1075 saw isn't going to be any harder than that.

And if they're hardened all the way through, that's not a bad option if you can find a 10tpi blade. They are soft enough that the set can probably be squeezed out of them to some extent.

[steven c newman]

In a video with captions, no less, he talked about using a "watch spring" saw. Handles that saw like it was a new hacksaw that one tensions with a lever that in turn becomes a part of the Handle. I DO LIKE the Rebate/ Edge Plane he made, also. Even down to cutting an old pplane iron to make a new iron for the edger plane.

Not sure what size of a clock uses a main spring THAT wide, though....

[Michael Kellough]

Just trowing in a random thought...could the spring from a tape measure be made to work?

[David Weaver]

That's just a term. Watch springs are hardened and tempered to spring temper, and maybe gun springs are, too, and everything that's spring. He's just making the point that the blade needs to be spring temper, and then there is probably some "slippage" due to translation.

[Jim Koepke]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#9036k896/=rw2nbo

You can get a ten foot length of it from mcmaster for $71 plus shipping, so probably somewhere around $80.

Presume you want to put teeth in it then, it'll probably burn up a couple of files.


The page says it is a 10' coil. Is there any problem or technique involved in making it flat for a saw?

jtk

[David Weaver]

No problem for a saw with stock this small and thin since it will be under tension. It would be a problem for a backsaw, though. You'd have to straighten it first.

[David Weaver]

Just trowing in a random thought...could the spring from a tape measure be made to work?

It would have to be a gigantic tape measure.

[David Weaver]

I guess this will have to wait until some other time for now. The ever incompetent UPS has delivered my package to some other address for the fourth time now in the last couple of years. I guess their drivers feel like they know too much to actually look at the name on the street signs when they deliver a package.

[James Conrad]

The driver has been following this thread and is now making a really really cheap bow saw.

[David Weaver]

Probably.

Or it's a street over or on the other side of the development from my street (same street, different house number).

Each time, it's, for some reason, taken a long time for people in my neighborhood to cough up the packages (they've never been anything good for other people, as is the case here).

[Joe Tilson]

Yesterday I got 97 24" bow saw blades for $20.00. Those will last me quite a long while. They are Chinese and seem to be fair quality. The old Whatcha growin brand HT22 part number blades.

[Praki Prakash]

Some of the posts in this thread seem to be referring to a video of bow saw making/usage. AFAICT, there is no link to it anywhere. Which video is that?

[David Weaver]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-F_Aw4Flfo

[ian maybury]

Some more Ulmia blade options here, not sure if there's anything likely to be of interest: http://www.pecktool.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=132