Large square recommendations

[Greg Woloshyn]

I've been working on some shop cabinets lately and cutting up full sheets of plywood with a circular saw and guide. The framing square I just bought turned out to be 3/16" off when I got it home to check it, so I'm returning it and want to find something better. I'm looking for a 18" x 24" or around that size. It's a real shame you can't even get a decent square from the BORG for the $15 I paid for it.

Better yet, has anyone made their own squares?

[Jim Matthews]

Our very own Mike Allen has, based on Jim Tolpin's design.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?203069-Shop-made-T-square-and-smoothing-plane

I use the Eurekazone saw guide and need only to drop a line to get my panels square.

Similar guides are available from makers to fit their proprietary saws.

The Eurekazone system has an adapter that fits your current saw.
(Presuming you're happy with it.)

http://www.eurekazone.com/

[johnny means]

Framing squares can be adjusted. If you want an accurate square you're going to have to spend some money. $15 barely buys a burger and fries with a drink nowadays, it surely won't get you any precision machining.

[Richard Wagner]

For dropping a line on sheet goods that is square to an edge, have you tried the old 3-4-5 right triangle method. This would yield a lot better than the 3/16" out of square square that you purchased.

[Curt Harms]

What brand did you purchase? I've had decent luck with Empire stuff from Home Depot. When buying a framing square, I take a few of them (assuming the display is well stocked) and find a flat surface. Stand them on the flat surface back to back. For two squares to meet edge to edge with no gap and not be square would require the same degree of error in opposite directions. That seems unlikely to me. I also have a Lee Valley square (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32587&cat=1,42936,42944) made in Japan that I use as a 'standard'. I didn't pay any $72.50 for it though.

[lowell holmes]

I bet Lee Valley or Tools for Working Wood can help you with a square that is indeed square.

I did buy a framing square from Lowes that is square. Check them out before you take it home.

[Cary Falk]

Woodpeckers. Ain't cheap though. Good stuff. Made in USA. I have their 18" triangle. Almost bought their 18x24 square.

[Greg Woloshyn]

It is an empire brand square purchased from Home depot. When I return it I'll check out some more in the store and see if any are square, otherwise I'll look into the 3 4 5 method.

[David Eisenhauer]

Johnny kind of called it like it is up above. 1) Buy a more expensive square, and Woodpeckers does make very good (costly like all Wpeckers stuff) square. This may be the option if you want a square to use as your benchmark square for future work and you sort of prorate the cost (mind game anyway) out over many years of use. 2) Build your own square. Doable - like building a jig - if you take the time and care to fab it up as dead-on square as you can get it and make it from stable, durable materials. Some folks can do/like to do that sort of stuff, some don't. 3) Adjust a cheaper, aluminum square bought from the Borg by scribing a centerline at the 90 deg corner and using a center punch to either close or open the angle slightly. Probably won't get it dead-on to within thousandths, but way better than 3/16". While the 3-4-5 method works, in my opinion it is a bit fiddly to use when making repetitive cuts on a sheet of plywood. I feel the 3-4-5 method works better when squaring forms for slab pours, squaring framed walls, etc. and, if you are going to continue building things in the shop, you may as well have a decent square you can depend on, however you decide to acquire one. My thoughts anyway.

[Greg Woloshyn]

After looking at the Woodpeckers framing square, I would consider spending the money for the quality square that it is. Problem is that this looks like it was a one time tool, from 2012, should I email them to see if they have any?

http://www.woodpeck.com/2616squarewp.html

[John TenEyck]

Make your own. 3-4-5 never fails. You can make it out of anything you want, any size you want, from scraps you probably have on hand. If you need or want a different size in a week or a month or a year it will be easy and cheap to make another. They will be more accurate than all but the most expensive ones you can buy, and just as accurate as those.

John

[Greg Woloshyn]

John, do you have any solid info for techniques building a shop made square? I am a machinist and can probably make one on the mill, but finding the table space and time may be difficult.

[Cary Falk]

After looking at the Woodpeckers framing square, I would consider spending the money for the quality square that it is. Problem is that this looks like it was a one time tool, from 2012, should I email them to see if they have any?

http://www.woodpeck.com/2616squarewp.html

Call them up and ask. They are very nice. They might tell you if they are gearing up for them again. If enough people ask for an item they will make it again. A lot of their one time stuff comes up every 1-2 years.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Framing squares can be peened to open or close the angle. This is a maintenance thing that needs to get done as they get dropped in use. If you want to use a framing square for laying out square cabinet cuts, tuning a square is not that much trouble.

You can also make a right triangle any size you like out of plywood or other reasonably flat, stable material. You can put a lip on the short leg and you'd butt that against the factory or ripped edge you wanted to make a square mark in relation to. The center of the triangle can be cut out to reduce weight if desired, or the long edge can be scooped out with a curved cut. Really there just needs to be enough material behind the edges to keep it stiff enough for use.

[John TenEyck]

Hi Greg, I didn't mean to build one out of metal, I meant out of wood. Plywood, 3 pieces of stock glued together, etc. It my seem too crude to be accurate, but it's really not. As long as the final dimensions of the sides are 3-4-5, exactly, you will have a perfect 90 deg angle. Or you could use A^2 + B^2 = C^2 for a more generalized formula. I suppose you could use a mill to cut out a small one, but a TS cutoff sled or RAS works well. Really big ones can be made by gluing together 3 pieces of straight stock, with any level of sophistication you desire to reinforce the joints.

John

[Victor Robinson]

I have that blue 18x24" empire square, and it is dead nuts on. There may be variation from copy to copy, but you CAN in fact get a reasonably priced large square without breaking the bank.

[Greg Woloshyn]

I got lucky and had some room in the machine today so I made a nice square in between setups. .350" thick, 18" x 20" made out of aluminum. I machined the edges, and pressed in 2 1/4" hardened dowel pins for a final angle which measured 90.01 degrees. All this from surplus material kicking around the shop so my cost was nothing.

288946288947

[David Eisenhauer]

Good looking square. Like I said, however you get there, now you have a decent square to use from now on, and, in this case, did not break the bank. Next problem? Get ready for the "can you build one of those for me", "how much would you charge for one of those?" requests. Now back to cutting............

[Greg R Bradley]

After looking at the Woodpeckers framing square, I would consider spending the money for the quality square that it is. Problem is that this looks like it was a one time tool, from 2012, should I email them to see if they have any?

http://www.woodpeck.com/2616squarewp.html

Was also a "one-time" tool again in 2013 as PSQ26. Also the 18" version. I know they had a few extras as recently as a month ago.

I would never give up my WP 2616 WP square but beefy squares that big are pretty special purpose. The 1281 (12x8") is a regular production item and a wonderful tool. The bigger ones are probably mostly used for precision woodworking by people that have, or perhaps should have bought, the 1281 and one of the regular production T-Squares.

I'm guessing if you bought a 1281, PSQ18, and PSQ26, they will end up being used in that order.

You can go to Carbide Processors to get the 1281 at 10% off here: http://www.carbideprocessors.com/precision-square-12-x-8-woodpeckers-1281r/

Checkout with the code "creekers" and get 10% more off. Fantastic unit for that price.

[Stew Hagerty]

After looking at the Woodpeckers framing square, I would consider spending the money for the quality square that it is. Problem is that this looks like it was a one time tool, from 2012, should I email them to see if they have any?

http://www.woodpeck.com/2616squarewp.html

I have one of those big Woodpeckers squares (as well as 3 other smaller versions) and I absolutely love all of them. They are dead accurate (which, sadly, is WAYYYY more accurate than I am myself). You can always call and see if the have any left.

This one is smaller, but it is available all the time: http://www.woodpeck.com/1281.html

[Peter Quinn]

I have one of those lee valley Japanese framing squares, around $50, very accurate. I also have a few old steel Stanley framing squares I dug out of my FIL's basement, very heavy, almost perfectly square. So maybe flea markets or estate sales? It's a crap shoot with the junk at the hardware stores these days. Imagine framing a hipped roof with a square that is out by 3/16"...