Milling Black Walnut

[Devon Sinsley]

Hi all I am new and have a few questions about cutting up a walnut tree. I plan on sifting through the threads but am going to ask anyway. So I am getting a free black walnut tree. Base diameter is about 30" Its about 10 foot to the first branch and then there are a few big limbs over 12in in dia going up. The only cost I will have associated with this is the cost of a lift $130.00 plus cost of milling. So that's all the details I can think of for now. My questions are such. First I want a little bit of everything out of this tree. I want one or two gun stock blanks (the first branch meets the trunk in a very nice U shaped crotch), I want mostly 4/4 lumber, maybe some 6/4 stuff, One 8/4 live edge slab, maybe some knife scales, turning stock, and maybe one guitar top for an electric guitar. Just a few things. any suggestions on how to cut this up to maximize cool and quality? I don't necessarily care about quantity but don't want to be wasteful either.

Thinking beyond planks how small of a dia is worth saving. I am thinking as small as pen blanks and small finals or spindles. I want to think outside the box and maximize the possibilities. So I am looking for any advice. I know for example that the best gunstock material will be the big U crotch at the first branch. From what I gather it will be best laid out with the fore end of the stock going up the limb as opposed to up the trunk with the butt of the stock being in the crotch wood. I think I read that on this site somewhere. Makes sense the way it would be laid out. So I know I can cut close to the crotch on the main trunk and go up the limb about 3-4 feet for the stock. This is the kind of stuff I am looking for. If someone knows a trick to get something cool out of some part let me know. The sawyer that will be cutting it does soft wood, he has only cut one other walnut. So I want to dictate what is cut where or at least be educated enough to discuss it with him. Also how long can I wait to slab it. I know its preferable to do it right away but money will prevent me from doing so. I will end seal it with anchor seal or ?????. But I want to avid as much checking as possible.

The stump...ok I have read about how much of a pain the butt it will be but I want it. I will suck it up and do what ever it takes. So what does this beast look like underground. I will have a backhoe to dig it but what am I up against? I know they have a tap root unlike a pine tree. Up I going to be able to break it off once I dig around it. What exactly will be usable on the stump. Is there anything in the roots themselves or just the main solid stump?

OK Ok I wrote a book. Hope people can help. Basically I am just doing this for the experience of going from tree to project. Its more about maximizing experience than anything else.

[Pat Barry]

This will be interesting to follow. I have a maple in my yard that needs too come down some day. Not as special as that walnut for sure but I have wondered some of the same things about best ways to get quality wood out of it. My BIL had some pine cut down and it was all just slab cut. Probably OK for the pine.

[Lee Schierer]

My understanding is that limbs, even large ones, have a lot of built in stress that make them less than desirable for cabinet making. Making a gunstock from the limbs may have similar consequences. I believe it is call reaction wood. YMMV.

[Drew Pavlak]

I can attest to that. 3 or 4 years ago I cut a nice walnut log and avoided the "Limb wood" all together, was very happy I did so. I did end up cutting some Red Oak limbs to see what would happen and they all curved considerably. Not sure if that can be used for Rocking chair runners, but it sure looked like it could. :D If there are any crotches to the tree I would highly recommend "filch sawing" so as to expose the figured wood that runs through the crotch. Also a lot of people say to air dry walnut, it will result in a purplish brown, where as kiln drying take a lot of that away and you just get the brown color. I have air dried all mine and it all looks great.

[Mark Bolton]

Good info. Limbs will only yield whacy wood or turning blanks. The tension that builds in a limb (to hold it up like holding your arms out straight) is nearly impossible to cut out.

The rest of it is pretty straight forward. Tell your sawyer what you hope for from the tree and he should do the best he can to meet your needs. Be aware though that even someone very good at sawing logs may not be able to get evything you want out of a log. The log will make what it will make, not what you want it to make.

I wouldn't put the first limb on the mill regardless of size. Cut them into blanks or firewood with a chainsaw and be done with it.

[Myk Rian]

Cross-cutting a limb will show the story. The core will be closer to the top side of it. Since the lower layers are holding the limb up, they are thicker.
Cutting this wood into boards can be tricky, as the stresses being relieved can distort it in ways you can't imagine.

[Devon Sinsley]

Great info thanks for all the comments. On the subject of limb wood. I read one place where if limbs are more vertical this has less stress. This would seem to reason and if cross cutting reveals a central core would I be ok? Also I was only considering three logs going to the mill all being what I would call the trunk. All the rest would be small enough for me to mess with on my band saw if I choose. I look forward to seeing just what I get. I all honesty its more of a novelty to me just to see what its all about. Were I live in Idaho All we cut is softwood into dimensional or 4/4 flat sawn pine so working with a hardwood will be fun. A few boards and a gun stock and maybe a nice bowl blank will be nice. There is one other nice crotch besides the one I want for stocks and I will filtch saw it for sure.

[Chuck Wintle]

Hi all I am new and have a few questions about cutting up a walnut tree. I plan on sifting through the threads but am going to ask anyway. So I am getting a free black walnut tree. Base diameter is about 30" Its about 10 foot to the first branch and then there are a few big limbs over 12in in dia going up. The only cost I will have associated with this is the cost of a lift $130.00 plus cost of milling. So that's all the details I can think of for now. My questions are such. First I want a little bit of everything out of this tree. I want one or two gun stock blanks (the first branch meets the trunk in a very nice U shaped crotch), I want mostly 4/4 lumber, maybe some 6/4 stuff, One 8/4 live edge slab, maybe some knife scales, turning stock, and maybe one guitar top for an electric guitar. Just a few things. any suggestions on how to cut this up to maximize cool and quality? I don't necessarily care about quantity but don't want to be wasteful either.

Thinking beyond planks how small of a dia is worth saving. I am thinking as small as pen blanks and small finals or spindles. I want to think outside the box and maximize the possibilities. So I am looking for any advice. I know for example that the best gunstock material will be the big U crotch at the first branch. From what I gather it will be best laid out with the fore end of the stock going up the limb as opposed to up the trunk with the butt of the stock being in the crotch wood. I think I read that on this site somewhere. Makes sense the way it would be laid out. So I know I can cut close to the crotch on the main trunk and go up the limb about 3-4 feet for the stock. This is the kind of stuff I am looking for. If someone knows a trick to get something cool out of some part let me know. The sawyer that will be cutting it does soft wood, he has only cut one other walnut. So I want to dictate what is cut where or at least be educated enough to discuss it with him. Also how long can I wait to slab it. I know its preferable to do it right away but money will prevent me from doing so. I will end seal it with anchor seal or ?????. But I want to avid as much checking as possible.

The stump...ok I have read about how much of a pain the butt it will be but I want it. I will suck it up and do what ever it takes. So what does this beast look like underground. I will have a backhoe to dig it but what am I up against? I know they have a tap root unlike a pine tree. Up I going to be able to break it off once I dig around it. What exactly will be usable on the stump. Is there anything in the roots themselves or just the main solid stump?

OK Ok I wrote a book. Hope people can help. Basically I am just doing this for the experience of going from tree to project. Its more about maximizing experience than anything else.
Perhaps hiring an experienced sawyer who can maximize the wood yield is a good idea. One of the band saw mills that take very little kerf for each cut.

[Jim Matthews]

Most sawyers won't cut anything less than 10 feet above the ground; that's where embedded metal is most often found.

Unless you have your own bandsaw mill (or contract to replace any damaged blades), this is an expensive undertaking
that others have tried with predictably poor results.

Urban trees grow without a canopy, and spread out instead of up.
The grain quality of such trees rarely matches what you can find at a good lumber yard,
where you can choose the boards you want.

It's an ambitious proposition, but are you prepared to make expensive firewood?

The value of Walnut, or any other lumber, is in the cost to prepare and season the boards.

Caveat Emptor

http://ohioline.osu.edu/for-fact/0044.html

I strongly recommend you contact a professional sawyer in your neck of the woods
and get a conservative estimate on cost versus yield.

http://nelsonwoodworks.biz/pb/wp_a9976cb4/wp_a9976cb4.html

[Pat Barry]

Lots of generalizations here in comments about the limb wood. I do agree with contacting a sawyer or two to get the quotes though. I haven't done much research on this but I would hazard a guess that based on your description with pretty vertical major limbs, you can find good lumber in there for certain types of projects where the character of the wood can be used best.

[Scott T Smith]

Hi Devon, I'm a miller and a kiln operator. Lots of good advice shared thus far in the replies above. A few comments.

First, there is a difference between a forked trunk and a limb. If a trunk is forked, it is usually ok to use the wood from the forked trunks. Limb wood is a no-no for reasons previously listed. Usually if the fork is less than 15 degrees or so you will be ok. More than that and the inconsistent cells will be forever problematic for furniture wood.

Figured gunstock wood is usually best sourced from a main trunk where a branch emanates between 70 - 90 degrees. If you draw a line inbetween the center of the log and the center of the branch, you will want to mill parallel to that line for the best figure. You will want to mill your stock blanks around 3" thick and store them in a cool, dry location. For the first several months, it's better if that location is a bit more humid, so as to slow down the rate of drying (think crawl space). Don't buck the gunstock sections too short; talk to your miller first and find out what the shortest logs is that they can clamp (dog) in their mill.

A quality end sealer - such as Anchor Seal Classic or Bailey's End Sealer, is best applied to the ends of the logs as soon as possible after bucking them to length.

Usually it is easiest to uproot the stump while it is still attached to the trunk. If you have room to fell the tree whole, here is the best approach: Position your backhoe 90 degrees to the felling direction and dig a trench around 2' deep and 6' long, about 18" or so off of each side of the trunk. Next, reposition the backhoe so that it is pointing directly away from the desired felling direction, and do the same thing on the opposite two sides of the trunk. You should now have trenches all around the trunk with the tree in the middle. Finally, move the backoe bucket up as high as possible on the trunk and push the tree over, uprooting the stump as you go. Once it is over you can take the bucket and try to scrape off as much of the dirt from the trunk as possible, but take care not to split or damage any of of the larger roots.

The second best location for figured gun stocks is the root ball, so you will want to make your initial buck on the trunk around 40" or so above the roots in order to have adequate length for your stocks. Pressure wash the rootball before attempting to cut it into smaller pieces, and even then plan on going through a lot of chainsaw chains as the roots frequently have embedded dirt, sand, rocks, etc in them. Dry the stock blanks slowly in a cool, damp location for the first several month, else they will check badly.

For furniture wood, in widths less than 8" mill it at least 3/8" thicker than your desired finished dimension. For every 2" greater than 8" wide, add 1/16" to the milling thickness. Said differently, for an 7" wide, 3/4" thick finished board, mill it at 1-1/8" green. For a 13" wide, 3/4" thick finished board, mill it at 1-5/16" green. Wider boards tend to cup more than narrower ones, which is why it is a good idea to mill them thicker.

Black walnut is very forgiving to air dry, and kiln drying will not hurt the color as long as it is dried in either a solar kiln, vacuum kiln, or dehumidification kiln. High temperature steam kilns (conventional kiln) WILL change the dark, rich colors to a lighter, muddy brown color; the other previously mentioned kilns types will not.

To find millers and kiln operators near you, check out the directory on Woodweb or join the Forestry Forum.

Best of success to you with your project!

[Devon Sinsley]

Well I have an update. Thanks for the advice. I most definitely will have a professional sawyer mill it. I know a man with a woodmizer band mill. I spoke with him last night and he said he will definitely make it worth my while. He sort of owes me a favor at least he thinks he does, I don't but he says he will give me a rock bottom figure. I will run the risk of metal and crap as I will owe him for blades. But we are going to go for it. After talking to him he has cut a few more than I thought at first he has done about a dozen walnuts but this one will be the biggest. We will see how it goes. I may end up with firewood but on the other hand I may end up with some decent wood I can be proud to make something out of. Honestly I think I will have less than 500 buck into this tree. One good gun stock blank is worth that. This is a personal use adventure. The enjoyment I will get just undertaking the project will be worth it. There will be untold hours of discovery that will be worth it. For those of you that have experienced this I understand maximizing dollars. this is more or less about maximizing experience. So I do appreciate the advice and concern and I am listening I assure you. But one way or another this tree is going to the mill. If it ends up in the fire place after well then I have the worlds most expensive fire wood and a story to tell.

[Devon Sinsley]

Hi Devon, I'm a miller and a kiln operator. Lots of good advice shared thus far in the replies above. A few comments.


Scott,
Thanks for the advice. Nice to hear from a miller. Every bit of your comments is useful in deciding how to tackle this. There is one crotch as you describe for gun stocks. It is the first branch coming off and is I would say about 70 degrees maybe even 80. It is also at the largest portion of the tree and is the biggest branch so should be some good stuff there. I appreciate the description between forked trunk and limb. Using that description I will have four logs that are trunks. Two before the main vertical split and one from each split. Humidity is a thing here, we don't have any really. North Idaho is relatively dry. All wood will be air dried for probably a couple years and for the thicker stuff as long as it takes. Since I don't have high humidity would it be better to dry it all indoors? (thinking less air flow). Also great idea on gettingthe stump out. We cant fall the tree whole really but we can fall the main trunk whole. We can limb it so only the main trunk is there. would be nice to have all the weight pulling it over but buildings prevent that. But we can dig around it and push it over so that is a big help.

[Jim Matthews]

This is a personal use adventure. The enjoyment I will get just undertaking the project will be worth it. There will be untold hours of discovery that will be worth it.

That's fair. I've paid more for less entertaining endeavors.
My commentary is based on two local guys who were both convinced their trees were as valuable whole as kiln dried lumber.

I gather you've dropped trees this big, before?

[Devon Sinsley]

I gather you've dropped trees this big, before?

This tree will be tiny compared to a few I have dropped. I once had the pleasure of dropping a nearly 200 foot tall western white pine. It was 4 and a half feet in diameter. It was dead and we used it for fire wood 2+ cords in one tree. I have fallen several western red cedar that while not that tall were 8 feet in diameter at the base. With that said I am not really comparing apples to apples. These trees were straight up and down not like this walnut which is going several directions at once. To do it right and safe we are renting a boom lift and taking all the limbs off of it first to avoid damaging nearby structures and yard art. then will push the trunk over with a backhoe.

[Scott T Smith]

Scott,
Humidity is a thing here, we don't have any really. North Idaho is relatively dry. All wood will be air dried for probably a couple years and for the thicker stuff as long as it takes. Since I don't have high humidity would it be better to dry it all indoors? (thinking less air flow).

Devon, in your environment I would not dry it indoors, because the HVAC usually dehumidifies the air which will make things worse.

Stack and sticker the boards outdoors. The ideal scenario is to place your stacks underneath a metal carport structure. The metal roof keeps the rain off of the lumber (and covers it well all around the stack), but allows free air flow through it. Place your widest, thickest boards in the middle of the stack and use either 5/8" or no more than 3/4" thick stickers to reduce the air flow around the thick boards (3" stuff). All of the 4/4 boards can be stickered with 1" thick stickers. After 6 months or so you can restack the 3" stuff with thicker stickers as by then the surface MC% will be well below 35% MC.