Anyone used both a front mount riding mower and a zero turn mower to compare them?

[Brian Elfert]

I am looking at riding mowers for the house I am buying. I used to drive Toro front mount riding mowers for five summers and I really liked them. Front mounts are typically large commercial mowers and were not cheap when new.

Has anyone driven both a front mount riding mower and a zero turn mower to compare them? One guy I talked to has three front mount mowers and he said he tried a zero turn and hated it so he keeps driving the front mounts. When I drove the Toro front mount I could get really close to stuff even though it was a 72" deck. I am a bit concerned about buying a used front mount though the Toros were really durable when I used them. The ones I drove had between 2,000 and 4,000 hours on them although I used an almost new one the last year or two. I would probably prefer the water cooled motor as a small engine with 1,800 hours could be pretty worn out. (We had one of the small Toro Groundsmasters with the Briggs engine that seized at about 4,000 hours. Luckily, my employer had already purchased a replacement and they scrapped the old one.)

[Jerome Stanek]

why not have the mower shops bring one of each out to demo. When your spending that much an a purchase you want to be sure of what you are getting. don't let them tell you to just run it around their place I made that mistake and thought the mower was good until I brought it home and tried it on my place. Cutting my grass that needed it showed me that the way the belts where tensioned was bad and I kept popping it off. I took it back and complained and they didn't believe me until they tried it at my place. I did get my money back.

[Brian Elfert]

If I buy a front mount it would probably be a used unit from Craigslist. Neither Toro nor John Deere make the small front mount mowers with the 48" or 52" decks anymore. I couldn't afford a new one anyhow. The new market in the small size is all zero turn now.

I'm also looking at the Cub Cadet zero turn with steering wheel and a standard zero turn too. I know the used front mount mowers are potentially going to be worn out due to the commercial use, but being commercial use means they are really heavy duty. I know that with the 72" Toro Groundsmasters at my former employer they could get over 4,000 hours out of one.

[Wes Mitchell]

I drove a Gravely zero turn at the orchard I worked at. They are great for flat areas, and really cut down on our mowing times, but our orchard was very hilly, and it was a bit dicey when it came to any of the hills. So I guess it would depend on the layout of your new yard.

Sounds like you're getting a bit of property, where are you moving to?

[Mike Lassiter]

I have not ran a front mounted deck mower, but I own a Kubota ZD331 with a 60" deck. Very heavy @ 1645 lbs. I have fairly rough ground to mow and some ditches etc. that I mow with it. First thing - it is NOT much on moderately wet ground. I got it stuck in my yard twice the day I got it and had to pull it out with my JD tractor. If one wheel spins you better hope the other will get you through because if you aren't carefully you will end up being directed over into the muddy area by the wheel that is pulling. I cut mowing the field above my house time by over an hour with the 60" deck verses a 27 HP garden tractor with a 54" deck and a JD tractor with a 6 ft bushhog due to trees. Zero turn much more agile. While the machine is agile it is heavy and does leave skid marks because it is so heavy. I can slide the inside wheel going around trees all the way around the trees while the outside wheel will keep right on pulling. Front deck mower could be just as agile with the deck in the front and pivoting on drive wheels behind it you would have more weight possibly on drive wheels with engine behind wheels and deck in front to balance weight out. I looked at Kubota models but many thousands more than the ZD331 model. I paid $12k or just over for my mower and really like it. I can mow my property 2 maybe 3 times on 5 gallons of diesel. Just paid it off and zero problems with it. Diesel doesn't gum up fuel system like gas with ethanol does so every year I get on it and crank it and it starts right up with whatever fuel was left from last year. Blades about $55 dollars for 3 that last about 50 hours running time before they get thin in the ends and start to split and must be replaced.
I don't think the front mounted mowers run as fast as the zero turns but maybe wrong. I think they make up their time with bigger decks rather than speed, but not saying they can't go fast. My mower CAN go faster than I can use it on my ground. I maybe run 1/2 to 2/3 full speed. I have 7-1/2 acres at my house and mow about 5-1/2 all together I guess. Mower is 5 years old this month and has just under 180 hours on it. It will last me the rest of my life I expect.

[Brian Elfert]

I drove a Gravely zero turn at the orchard I worked at. They are great for flat areas, and really cut down on our mowing times, but our orchard was very hilly, and it was a bit dicey when it came to any of the hills. So I guess it would depend on the layout of your new yard.

Sounds like you're getting a bit of property, where are you moving to?

I'm looking at a 5 acre property in Ham Lake, MN. I'm not sure there is much over 1 acre of grass that would need mowing.

When I worked cutting grass at the MN State Fair the front mount mowers could generally go forward at a faster speed than one could mow at. One summer we had to cut grass rain or shine except in a lightning storm. The gas power model would stall when trying to cut in standing water. The new diesel model could power right through. I don't recall ever leaving any tracks in the grass even with the 72" diesel. I would be looking at the smaller models with no more than a 52" deck.

The one thing I don't like about front mounts is the lack of mulching options. The Toro Groundsmasters have to have an entirely different deck to mulch and most used mowers have the regular deck.

[Judson Green]

I think that zero turn mowers tend to tear up the turf when making sharp turns. Probably not a big deal away from the home, away from obstacles, but nearer the home were you might notice it: were you tend to cut the grass the same way making the same turns in the same place.

[Brian Elfert]

The front mount mowers, at least the Groundsmasters, can do zero turns by braking each front wheel independently. The locked wheel will tear up the grass so I only did it once to prove it could be done and never did it again. I probably would never take advantage of the zero turn capability.

[Ole Anderson]

Sorry I can't compare to a front mount, but I do have a Deere Z425 48" zero turn. Went with the 48" rather than 60" due to storage space in my garage. Zero turn is a misnomer. You will tear up your turf if you spin on one wheel and do a true zero turn. You learn to do what I call a K turn, still fast but doesn't tear up the turf. Zero turns have a faster ground speed than most yard tractors. With one acre, a 60" ZT will be the ticket. Going around lots of trees can still create tire marks if done repeatedly. Probably applies to any mower. Lots of hills are problematic for a ZT. Going up is no problem , down or sidehilling an steep hill is a problem. A Z425 is going to be 4-5K depending on accessories. If you want diesel, you are in a whole different ballpark moneywise. Not sure how well the Cub Cadet with the steering wheel works, but it doesn't take long to get used to the normal lever style of a ZT. What do the pros use on one acre lots these days? A 60-72" ZT. Takes up less space for storage too.

[David Weaver]

I don't know if you have a barn (to store something big), but I mowed grass for a guy for years using a jacobsen F10. The only drawback to it was that it didn't mow grass that got beyond a certain height, but it could mow an acre in about 8 minutes. I swear if you held an oily rag in front of it, that's all it would've taken to run it.

That was 20 years ago, so maybe a different version of the same thing would be appropriate.

For weeds and stuff that grew tall that it wouldn't cut, we ran a regular mower every once in a great while.

AS i recall, the owner bought that particular F10 for $350. The local country club did something to break the motor mount and just set it aside. He located a new one (it just had a ford diesel) for cheap and had his son install it and must've run it for 10 more years.

It burned less than a gallon of diesel an hour when I was using it, mowed 14 feet wide, had a control for every reel (if you went over something small or narrow and didn't want to mow) and went about 5 miles an hour at regular mowing speed, so you were at a nice slow comfortable (no kidney jarring) speed.

[Brian Elfert]

The F10 is way too big for any area I am looking to mow. I don't know how you could use a 72" deck mower on an acre lawn unless it was nice and flat with no trees and other obstacles. The property I am looking to buy is not nice and flat. I am looking at used mowers such as the John Deere F710/F725, Toro Proline Groundmaster 118/120, or the Toro Groundsmaster 220/225. I am not considering the John Deere F525 because everyone says to stay away due to the unique engine configuration.

[David Weaver]

My neighbor had a 725, and used it on ground you wouldn't think of riding a zero turn on. I don't live there anymore, but he probably still has it. He was using it on less than an acre for reasons I can't comprehend - maybe someone gave it to him.

Best man in my wedding has a 710, and he likes it a lot. He mows (well, he just sold his house, so he doesn't now) 2 acres and is pleased with it. It cut his mowing time in half vs. a rider tractor (geared) that he had with the same sized deck, and he got it used and hasn't had any trouble with it.

I haven't seen a front mount out here where I live (lots of hills), but I live in the burbs and I don't have yards large enough to see them, anyway.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I have a Walker, and have used the front mount Swisher (IIRK). Been around a Toro a bit too. I like Toro equipment, if you are buying used, I'd recommend just getting the best one you can find and not worry about which it is. The Walker bags really well, the front mounts bagging system is clunky compared. I think the Walker rides better, but not by much. In the range of mower your talking about, you probably won't regret any of them.

[Brian Elfert]

Toro and John Deere seem to be the main front mounts around here. I'm reluctant to go with other brands besides Toro or John Deere for parts reasons. Toro is headquartered here so you see a lot of them. I think my best choice would be a Toro Groundsmaster 220/225 with a recycler deck as they have water cooled engine. A snowblower might be nice too. I've also got my eye on a Toro Proline 118 with recycler deck, but it has a Kohler small engine that is air cooled. I have no idea how long those engines last. If I found a deal on a John Deere I wouldn't have an issue with the Deere. I don't like that the smaller John Deere units have small engine that are air cooled. The water cooled are bigger than I want.

I had good luck with the Toro when I used them 40 hours a week. They seemed to not need a lot of repairs, but we had a dedicated small engines mechanic. I would always bring my unit in if it started making any funny noises. The mechanic was usually happy because everybody else ran them until they quit and then brought them in for repair. The mechanic liked me because I brought the units in while the problems were still minor and easier/cheaper to fix. I hated when I had a day off and somebody else drove my unit. They almost always bent the discharge chute after I had managed to not bend it for weeks on end. These units all got taken care of well during the off season so maybe that is why they ran so well.

[Brian Elfert]

Resurrecting my really old thread. I have had it with running worn out front mount mowers. I am going to bite the bullet and spend the big bucks for a brand new mower. I have the money to buy new even if it costs close to $20,000.

I will buy a front mount mower. The options are a steering wheel front mount like the Kubota F2960e, or a Grasshopper front mount. I was all set to buy a Kubota 2960e until I was mowing my lawn yesterday and thinking maybe the Grasshopper front mount would turn better as each wheel is independent. Anyone used both and have an opinion? My mower is tearing up my lawn going around trees and making some turns. If I make a T or K style turn when turning around it is fine.

[David L Morse]

Have you looked at Walker? My 48" front mount has been going strong for nearly 20 years.

458163

[Ron Selzer]

I would not buy a grasshopper. Have one at work with a blade, snow blower and brush. Snow blower and blade are built way too light, flimsy and tear up too easy. Brush is way too complex. Too expensivive
Ron

[Tom M King]

I have 1/4 mile of slopes to mow, with the result of sliding sideways ending up in the lake. I have one of the steering wheel linked zero turns on order from Cub Cadet. Not brand loyal at all, but that's the only one I could find with the steerable front wheels that hold slopes, and still have decent speed. Supposed to be here around the end of June, but we'll see about that. It's a 72", but my small one has about had it too, and I'm trying to decide about getting another steering wheel smaller model, or a lap bar zero turn, probably a 54".

I looked at the front mowers, but I have a chainhoist in the building where the mowers stay, to lift any of them to change the blades, and the other ones for slopes cost more than I can justify for what they are. I'll do more than cut slopes with the big 'un.

[Brian Elfert]

I actually had a 1984 Walker in my garage until about ten minutes ago when I gave it to the neighbor for scrap. It no longer works at all and has too many issues to be worth fixing.

I had bought the Walker really cheap a couple of years ago for a temporary mower because both my primary mower and my backup were broken. I may have mowed my lawn once with it. It is/was too difficult for me to use with the separate steering and forward/reverse levers. I would never pay new price for a Walker.

[Brian Elfert]

I would not buy a grasshopper. Have one at work with a blade, snow blower and brush. Snow blower and blade are built way too light, flimsy and tear up too easy. Brush is way too complex. Too expensivive


The Grasshopper I could definitely see not being great for commercial snow removal. There are far better units for that kind of use. I have never read of anybody having issues when using a Grasshopper for mowing. As far as cost, Grasshopper is less expensive than the Kubota F2690e I am also looking at. A lot of the sidewalk snow removal contractors in downtown Minneapolis use equipment that is way more money than a Grasshopper.

My question right now is what type of controls I want. Lap bars or steering wheel for a front mount mower.

[Brian Elfert]

I have 1/4 mile of slopes to mow, with the result of sliding sideways ending up in the lake. I have one of the steering wheel linked zero turns on order from Cub Cadet. Not brand loyal at all, but that's the only one I could find with the steerable front wheels that hold slopes, and still have decent speed. Supposed to be here around the end of June, but we'll see about that. It's a 72", but my small one has about had it too, and I'm trying to decide about getting another steering wheel smaller model, or a lap bar zero turn, probably a 54".


I looked long and hard at the Cub Cadet Pro Z series with steering wheels. I took a couple of them for test drives around the parking lot. They are expensive, but less so than the Grasshopper or Kubota. Very well built with nice engines. I have pretty much scratched them off my list because they are a mid mount instead of front mount.

Did you get the 15% off on yours? Cub Cadet says no rain checks on the 15% which seems to mean it has to be sold from dealer inventory.

[Jim Becker]

I have no experience with the front-mount setup. The only places I see them commonly used around here are on golf courses and large parks which tend to be flat or at least gentle changes. I saw one commercial mover using a walk-behind front mount today, however.

I do have experience with a ZTR as I've been using one since about 2008. I love the thing and even though is a bit larger than necessary for our new, smaller property, I'm keeping in since I own it. The singular thing I wish mine had was a suspension like the Ferris, etc., but that wasn't an option from SCAG when I was buying nor did I even know about it. A number of local commercial mowers are using the Ferris stand-on type ZTRs around here as they find standing for a long period of time to be more comfortable than mounting and dismounting a seat...the sitting position on a ZTR tends to be pretty low unless you go for the big diesel Kubota mowers.

[Tom M King]

I think you're probably going to have to do what I did, and rely on youtube videos.

Most of the front mount mowers with a steering wheel look like the rear wheels are steerable. The biggest advantage to me was that it looks easy to change the blades, if you sharpen them often, like I do. I have an efficient setup for dealing with that with any mower, so that doesn't apply for me.

The regular, lap bar zero turns use a different hydraulic drive motor for each rear wheel, and the front wheels just caster. The trouble with that on slopes is once the rear wheels start sliding sideways, the front wheels just say, okay, we're going that way.

The Cub Cadet steering wheel zero turns have a linkage that not only steers the front wheels, to keep them pointed in the direction you're going, but links to the two different drive motors like a lap bar zero turn. The two drive motors are just not quite as independent as with the lap bar, but still counterrotate when the turn gets tight enough. The steerable front wheels make enough difference that it will handle a much steeper side slope angle than a lap bar mower.

If your ground is relatively flat everywhere, as most yards are, that's where the lap bar mowers excel, and why most pros, who just do yards, use them.

At first, I was tempted by the Ferris suspension too, but on top of the slopes, I bought a Snapper bagging push mower, for the dog yards, from the Ferris dealer, and I don't want to deal with them any more.

The Cub Cadet dealer is an old family that I went to school with, and is only a few miles away. Everyone else is 35 minutes, to an hour away, so the dealer figured in too.

I like sharp blades, and it's a few minute job to sharpen, balance, or change out a set. This blade grinder, and balancer is on a door to the shop that opens out, to keep the mess outside.

[Bob Riefer]

Did I read correctly that you’re only mowing 1 acre?

[Brian Elfert]

Did I read correctly that you’re only mowing 1 acre?

My original post was before I bought a house. I am mowing two to three acres at the property I ended up buying. It takes me close to two hours to mow the grass right now with my Groundsmaster with 61" front mount deck.

[Tom M King]

I looked long and hard at the Cub Cadet Pro Z series with steering wheels. I took a couple of them for test drives around the parking lot. They are expensive, but less so than the Grasshopper or Kubota. Very well built with nice engines. I have pretty much scratched them off my list because they are a mid mount instead of front mount.

Did you get the 15% off on yours? Cub Cadet says no rain checks on the 15% which seems to mean it has to be sold from dealer inventory.

Yes, I got the 15% off, because I ordered it before that promotion expired, but they have it again through the 25th. I went in ready to buy it, but they couldn't have one ready before the end of June.

I'm going in tomorrow, and either buy, or order another smaller 54" one. The 72" won't fit everywhere, and I'm sick of the old lawn tractor. I used to have a guy that worked three days a week cutting grass, but he got too old to keep doing it. Now I'm doing most of it myself, so increasing efficiency. We also have pastures, and trails that get clipped with a tractor, but need prettier cutting for more than a few acres.

If I only had a few acres to cut, I wouldn't agonize over the exact details of the mower, and get the fastest one for the job. Flat, or slopes? Changing the type of tires should help with tearing the ground up.

[Brian Elfert]

I am leaning toward the Grasshopper at this point. I really wish there was a dealer within reasonable driving distance that had one in stock and had a grassy area to drive on with trees and such. The dealer I went to on Thursday was an hour away and had no grass to drive on. I know I can't actually mow with a new unit before buying it.

Grasshopper has a demo program, but I'm not sure they would really have a dealer willing to bring a unit to me considering how far the closest dealer is. I live in the Minneapolis metro area and there is one dealer that I consider to be in the metro area and they are on the far southern end of the metro area while I am on the northern end.

[Brian Elfert]

I'm going in tomorrow, and either buy, or order another smaller 54" one. The 72" won't fit everywhere, and I'm sick of the old lawn tractor. I used to have a guy that worked three days a week cutting grass, but he got too old to keep doing it. Now I'm doing most of it myself, so increasing efficiency. We also have pastures, and trails that get clipped with a tractor, but need prettier cutting for more than a few acres.

If I only had a few acres to cut, I wouldn't agonize over the exact details of the mower, and get the fastest one for the job. Flat, or slopes? Changing the type of tires should help with tearing the ground up.

I would never use a lawn tractor for my yard. I borrowed my father's lawn tractor once and it was painful. It took me six plus hours between the slow speed and the poor turning radius. I already use turf tires on my mower so I am not sure what other type of tires to use. Grasshopper uses bar tires on all of their units for some reason.

For me, two hours isn't too bad for cutting my yard. I'm looking for the mower that is easy to use and trims around all the obstacles easily. My yard is mostly flat, but I have a small hill in the front yard that a zero turn should have no issue with.

[Tom M King]

I would get a Scag Cheetah for that yard.

I had a guy that was like Forrest Gump, who thought driving a lawn tractor was the greatest job in the world. I don't think he could have handled a lap bar mower. His diabetes got too bad for him to keep working. I'm going to give it to him as soon as I get one of the new ones. He can keep his grass cut with it.

If you're tearing up ground with turf tires, it's just technique.

[Brian Elfert]

Maybe I am using the wrong technique for going around trees. I am just going in a circle around the trees. Is there a different technique that won't tear up the grass going around trees? I have a steering wheel mower now, but I understand with a zero turn it is not recommended to go forward with one wheel and backwards with one wheel or it tears up the grass.

I am not going to get a standard zero turn mower. It just isn't in the cards. I have numerous low trees that I use the front mount mower deck to trim under. I would be spending at least 30 minutes with my push mower trimming under all the trees with a regular zero turn. If I was to get a standard zero turn mower there are dozens of choices to choose from and I probably would not get Scag. Nothing against Scag, but they are harder to find locally.

[Tom M King]

I understand about going under some low shrubbery. I'm hoping I can take care of that with the 72" deck, that sticks out the sides some. Since I'm doing it all myself, I'm not doing nearly as much trimming as we used to have done.

A zero turn will tear up less in a tight turn, since you can keep the two rear tires turning at different speeds. Just have to get a feel for it, which I'm not that good at yet either, but getting better.

[Brian Elfert]

I'm probably going to go with the Grasshopper, but I have to make a few calls tomorrow. A Grasshopper with similar specs to the Kubota probably isn't quite as heavy duty as the Kubota, but I will be lucky to put more than 1,000 hours on a new mower. I think it will last just fine. There is a guy on Youtube who claims he has 14,000 hours on a 1998 Grasshopper.

The Grasshopper will also handle a snow blower which a zero turn will not. I can get the Grasshopper mower and the snow blower for the same price as the Kubota mower alone. I found a leftover 2019 Grasshopper that is worth driving to go get. I can't believe the dealer still has it considering there are no 2021 models at any nearby dealers.

[Tom M King]

Good luck with it. Sounds like it's a lucky find. Should last for several decades cutting that yard. I saw one on some news show cutting the grass at the White House.

[Jim Becker]

Brian, I tend to use tuck into the tree with the deck and then back up technique to get close...kinda like a bunch of k-turns. If I don't rush, there's little or no turf damage and I can get darn close in most cases. The issue with circling at the extremes of steering, regardless of machine type, is the outer anti-scalp guides sometimes digging in and causing a visible circle in addition to any drive wheel damage from a tight turn. This risk is reduced if you're cutting at 4" or similar, but increased the shorter you prefer to cut. I run 3.5" normally and sometimes 4" in the spring.

[Brian Elfert]

I thought about going with a service, but over ten years I could easily pay for a Grasshopper mower, repairs, and fuel. I bet it would be $100 per week or more for a service for my large lot. Yes, I would free up two hours or more per week, but I have the time.

[Tom M King]

I would think you can get three acres down to one hour.

I'm in the process today of building a topsoil leveling drag specifically for smoothing out some of the larger grass areas, so I can cut it faster without jarring my brains out.

[Brian Elfert]

I am going to buy a used 2019 Grasshopper diesel with 160 hours on it for $12,000. I just got a call that the unit is available again as the buyer found something closer. I could get a new 2019 for $14,400, but I have to drive 1,700 miles round trip versus 450 miles round trip for the used one. The closest new 2021 units are four to eight hours round trip and they sell for just over $17,000. Nobody local has a new unit in stock.

[Ronald Blue]

Brian I don't know the model you are looking at but here is a good tool to shop with. Just plug your zip code in. You can search for the specific model or family of models.
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/list/manufacturer/grasshopper/model-group/729?SCF=True&latitude=44.984677&longitude=-93.269852&zip=55401

[Brian Elfert]

Yes, I used Tractorhouse along with other sites to find a mower. There are a number of similar sites to Tractorhouse.

[Brian Elfert]

I got my new used mower home late this morning. I was too tired to do anything today with the mower other than unload it from the trailer. I drove my big motorhome so it takes a little longer to get places.

It was quite the ordeal leaving at midday Friday afternoon and not getting home until this morning. I had no issues making the trip from Minneapolis to Waterloo, Iowa in about four hours and got the mower in the trailer just fine. I planned to drive from there to Big Rock, Illinois to get a snow blower attachment which was about four hours. One of my trailer tires picked up a screw and started leaking. I stopped at three different Pilot truck stops and all three had failed air compressors so no air. I forgot to grab my spare tire for the trailer so I had to park my trailer and drive 45 minutes round trip to get a plug kit at Walmart. I wanted a permanent patch instead of plug so I spent the night at a Discount Tire. They wouldn't fix a plugged tire so I drove on to pick up my snow blower attachment. I was so tired I only drove an hour or so from there and stopped a couple of hours for a nap. I had less than four hours to go to get home, but I got tired again after two more hours and stopped for the night.

The moral of this long post is to always remember a spare tire. I probably would have been home at least half a day earlier if I had a spare tire. Luckily, I had no reason to be home at any particular time. Total trip distance was just over 900 miles all told.