Oil vs wax for rust prevention

[Eric Erb]

Which is better and why? I know some of you wipe down with oily rag after each use. But what about wax?

[Moses Yoder]

The best rust preventer is storage in a reasonably tight wooden box. You bring up a good point but unless there is scientific documentation we are just tossing about opinions. I have used both cameliia oil and Johnson's paste wax. I like the oil better because it is easier to use; less time to get an even coat over the whole tool. All of the tools I use are kept in wood cabinets or boxes. My one tool box doesn't latch well and sometimes the door swings open and I am not out there for a week or two, this is the only time I have noticed rust on my tools. I often buy tools at sales and set them on an open shelf until I get to them and the ones that aren't rusty when I get them I found rust pretty fast. I noticed yesterday a really nice plane I had bought that was not a user setting on an open shelf with my block planes rusted on the side that was toward the front but not on the back side. I don't remember what I put on it, if anything.

[Bill Huber]

I guess the first question is what are we talking about, a shovel or a table saw top.

[Mike Holbrook]

I think this or a similar question was asked here fairly recently. Opinions seem to go both ways on this one. Personally I use a special Micro-Crystalline wax/cleaner/polish called Renaissance Wax, which I get at Highland Woodworking. This product was specially developed by the British Museum and restoration specialist internationally to revive and protect valuable museum pieces: wood, leather, metal.....Makes a very tough, clear, slick, rust proof surface on my hand tools and on metal power tool tables and parts. And a very small amount goes a looong way.

[lowell holmes]

I've had better luck with Johnson's Wax than Cameliia oil. I live in Galveston County and it is humid.

[David Weaver]

long term - paste wax or half beeswax half oil mix (easier to apply and you don't have to wait for anything to dry). Could be more parts oil and fewer beeswax for easier yet to apply.

If a tool still rusts with that combination, it's time to sell the tool because you're not using it.

Never had luck with oil alone on tools that might not get used on a regular basis.

[Adam Cruea]

Neither.

I just keep my basement pretty dry (<30% humidity, I think). Thus far, no rust that I can tell, and if there is, it's from where my sweat has dripped on a tool and I didn't see it. There *might* be some odd discoloration/patina on the tool, but rust is a rare find for me in my wood shop.

I'm hoping I can build a tool chest at some point with a till and places for my planes so that I can keep them in an even lower humidity environment with a couple of Goldenrods from LV.

[David Dalzell]

There was an article in FWW #227 May 2012 titled "The Best Rust Preventer". They tested a number of old favorites plus some new products. They rated as best a product called CRC-Industrial 3-36. I don't recall the price but it was more or less equivalent to WD-40

[Brian Holcombe]

In using CRC for engine parts I liked it for this job far more than WD-40.

In either case I would not use something like this for woodworking tools, rather, I use wax.

[Winton Applegate]

Scotland Yard feels lonely without me, and it causes an unhealthy excitement among the criminal classes.

Bill Huber,


the first question is what are we talking about, a shovel or a table saw top.


Great question Bill !

I was going to say oil but looks like the guys are doing a better job of this than I could ever hope to so I must bow to their experience.

Let me ‘splane . . .
nah
first let me get all theoretical and book wormish
I know how excited that makes some of you . . .
but I am going to go there none the less.

Well theoretically . . .
I should have explained why I am just theoretically speaking but I will get to that . . .

. . . theoretically wax is inferior because it can’t self heal and in a thin layer at least can let atmosphere through to the metal.
Well anyway that is what they say happens when you attempt to put a protective finish of wax on wood.

The oil and wax David mentioned might be a good way to go. At least in thick enough applications.
Is that what COSMOLINE is ? Stuff they put on machinery to ship it across the ocean. Thick nasty stuff. You have to use a shovel and kerosene to get it off.

Now to the ‘splaning part.
I use nothing at all in most cases. Just too lazy. I get no rust.
Why ? ? ? ?
I live in a high desert in the Wild Wild West.
No moisture compared to most folks.
I once had a bit o’rust when my metal shop was in a basement a hundred feet from next to a creek. That got me looking into it

Here is an interesting one that I found but have not been able to prove (see comments on dry land above).

DON’T STOP READING YET !
This is a reason to buy MORE WOOD !
And wood you may not have laying around or have worked before.
A relatively friendly and interesting wood . . .
TADAAAAAAAA . . . . CAMPHOR WOOD.

Yah the stuff that, when cut or planed, smells just like what your mom put on your chest to try to finish you off when you had a chest infection.
It never works of course, (kill you that is) at least usually not , but it doesn’t stop em from trying.
But that is another thread , perhaps for one of Derek’s psychology forums.

In theory . . . theoretically speaking that is . . . well . . .
the camphor wood is supposed to act like the dry pellets that you can get for tool boxes and . . .
in a confined space, like a tool box drawer, (piston fit of course . . . of course), well . . .
. . . are you ready for this ?
. . .
the camphor wood, with fluctuations in humidity, atmospheric changes you under stand, causes . . .
. . . this is great stuff. . .
causes the camphor wood to emit a very slight . . .
atmosphere of camphor and so prevent rust.

I started in making tool boxes of the stuff. Originally I was going to make them of olive wood fronts and box and camphor wood drawer sides, back and maybe drawer bottoms. I moved and have had no rust. The tool boxes have been on the back burner and the rest . . .
as they say
Is history.

Here is a prototype drawer I made just to see how the camphor wood was to work and I switched to walnut for the primary wood because, as many of you may have guessed, I don’t have the Royal coffers it would take to use olive wood.

Unless George could send me a truck load of olive wood ! ? ! ? ! ?
Then I could promise to drop everything and get started on the new tool boxes and cabinets immediately.
I promise !

So there you have it.
Another tool catastrophe averted.
By science
Theoretically anyway.
I keep these photos around to demonstrate various things so are easy to post.
the bottom in this sample is Baltic Birch.


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/andLittleones_zps59609321.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/andLittleones_zps59609321.jpg.html)


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/IMG_0824_zpsf2036212.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/IMG_0824_zpsf2036212.jpg.html)


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/IMG_0823_zps9f22f787.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/IMG_0823_zps9f22f787.jpg.html)

[Curt Putnam]

It strikes me that very few folks who propound rust prevention (me included) mention their particular micro-climate. I believe that rust on tools (kept indoors) is a function of dew point issues. If your tool storage location is located in an area that gets below the dew point you will have rust. If not, not. That's why tight storage cabinets seem protective. Can't really get get enough moisture on the tools even if below dew point. A goldenrod keeps the box above dewpoint.

For the wax proponents: take a piece of cast iron and wax it thoroughly. Then take it outside and spray it with water. Measure the length of time it takes for rust to form.

I believe in 100% synthetic oils (Mobil 1, et. al.) - they seem to "bond" with the metal. A put-away wipe keeps everything hunky-dory. In my particular situation I use Corrosion-X HD because it has performed so well on multi-day salt water fishing trips. I've had the 1 spray can for close to 15 years now - hasn't failed yet

[Winton Applegate]

A goldenrod
is that an electrical device ? (I assume you don't mean a flower ha, ha).


Mobil 1 and Corrosion-X HD
I have always been a Mobile 1 man, when I was into cars, and worked with them professionally.
And since the day I took a look at the bottom of a quart of Pennzoil after poring out most of the contents. Surely all that sediment should not be in a quart of new oil ! . . . but I digress or regress or undress . . .

Now I have a use for those few quarts of Mobile 1 sitting around since we stopped driving.

Synthetic products. Always bring up the question for me :
How are your children ?
only the two arms and legs ? No wings ?

I have to ask because children scare me and I have none of my own so I have no empirical data to draw from.

Mostly kidding around in my own twisted way.

[Tony Wilkins]

Let me see if I'm getting this right - what matters most is your microclimate, whether your mom rubs something on your tool chest, and whether you store your tools with hay fever causing weeds (i.e. goldenrod)?

[Winton Applegate]

Mix wax and oil
Ha, ha

Hey David,

I was looking for auto body rust remover for the plane restoration thread and came across my old friend that I had forgot about and thought of you.
Here you go dude . . . already mixed

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_19 6295_langId_-1_categoryId_165594

[Adam Cruea]

Goldenrod: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=69378&cat=1,43456

When I kept my tools outside and there was cast iron involved, I use a liberal coating of pneumatic oil. In a moment of genius I thought using 20w50 Harley oil would be a wonderful idea. Super bad idea; it turns into gel when it sits out for a while and it attracts dust like crazy.

Which leads me to my next point; I don't like using oil because it attracts dust, and tools that are used will have dust around them. Every plane I've rehabbed, I put pneumatic oil in the screw holes to keep the screws moving smoothly. Invariably, dust ends up collecting outside of the screw holes even after I wipe off excess.

The best way to prevent rust is to lower the humidity of the environment the planes are stored inside.

[Chris sepielli]

I use Johnson's wax on parts that I handle a lot. I use oil on all bolt threads when they get removed, oil on parts that I don't handle much. My planes get wax on sole cheeks iron and lever cap. Frog bare metal surfaces and all threads get oil. So I use both, but i ask my self would real wax be better then paste wax?

[Roger Rettenmeier]

I use wax. I also live in a lower humidity climate. The humidity changes around here in the spring and fall, otherwise it is pretty stable.

[Tom M King]

Crc 3.36....

[David Weaver]

Ha, ha

Hey David,

I was looking for auto body rust remover for the plane restoration thread and came across my old friend that I had forgot about and thought of you.
Here you go dude . . . already mixed

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_19 6295_langId_-1_categoryId_165594

Well, it seems a great idea once you realize you can make a spec version, like 1 for 1, and then if you want more oil, you can literally put your spec version on something in a blob, squirt a little more oil on it and go to town.

My wife has a rolling cabinet in the kitchen with some kind of mystery chinese wood top on it. The finish was about what you would expect for quality, very thin. Every once in a while, I refresh it by getting my 1 to 1 mix of beeswax and food grade mineral oil, and I put a little blob of it on the middle of the countertop.

Follow that with a generous helping of additional oil and the water will bead on it for months, and it looks fantastic and is food safe.

I got the oil/wax mix from a turner named eddie castellin who got it from another turner, and they call it "sanding wax". I don't know what that means, I guess they put it on and sand with it to fill pores. I noticed later how fantastic it was for everything. It's a tiny bit thick for direct tool application, but applying a little bit of it to an already oiled rag (thinner) and it goes everywhere just fine and does better than one of those evaporating oils does by itself.

Fantastic winter salve, too, for any cracked skin or chapped lips, super cheap (about $10 a quart to make, which nearest I can tell will last an average hobbyist about 6 years), and when your lip balm tin can runs out, you just scrape it through your "sanding wax". I might be tempted to take a bit out and thin it two times over again on purpose to make a very liquid wax that applies easier.

Food grade mineral oil is about $15 a gallon, the beeswax is about $6 a pound for pesticide free, and all that remains is to see if you can get the two heated and mixed without a fire or a mess.

http://eddiecastelin.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/SandingWax.54184013.pdf

Eddie suggests wax from michaels. I find their prices on such stuff reprehensible when you can get it straight from beekepers. Same with the liberon beeswax, it's like $40 a pound or more. I know eddie is just trying to make it easier to get the bits and pieces, while a picky jerk such as me wants good and cheap and repeatably good and cheap.

[Winton Applegate]

when your lip balm tin can runs out, you just scrape it through your "sanding wax".

Could use it for Mustache wax . . .
the uses are practically limitless.

Yah I don't know what they put in the Waxoil but I bet it is one step short of radio active sludge.

[David Weaver]

Could use it for Mustache wax . . .
the uses are practically limitless.

Yah I don't know what they put in the Waxoil but I bet it is one step short of radio active sludge.

Yeah. I don't think I'd use it on my cracked hands. But a survey of YouTube suggests a pretty enthusiastic following.

A review of ewg.or will pretty much cure you from ever touching anything again, though, if one restricted their use to products that were too far from mildly radioactive.

[Shawn Pixley]

My microclimate is very pro-rust. I have had to turn myself into a bit of a rust expert because of this. I am 150 feet from the ocean typically with an on-shore breeze. The humidity is typically 30-90% RH. Temperatures typically 40-90 F. Rust from the salt air is a constant battle. The garage / shop is where it all happens. The garage may get into the fifties at the coldest.

Hand tools are wiped down with camilia oil. Plane soles get bees wax as well (old candle from a garage sale). Each hand tool has a box or sock which is then stored in a cabinet. Wiping the fingerprints off is very important to me, as that is where I see the initial corrosion. You can see what you miss such as the finger prints on the drill press chuck.

Power tools and anvils get treated with Boeshield and then get carnuba wax on top of that. Each tool has a wood, plastic, or cloth cover. Untreated iron corrodes quickly. Tools are not left out or stored ready for use. While that is somewhat inconvenient, the rust doesn't get much of a chance to form.

288723

The photo above is plate iron that we are intentionally rusting to get a particular texture. This should be seen as an example of what I face without my clean-up and storage treatments. It was wet with water and left on a table in the house. This is about six months old now. I don't know which is better oil, wax or covering/enclosing. I see a need for all and they work for me.

[Eric Erb]

Thank you all. My scene: I'm in nj in an old stonewalled cellar. It can get very humid there. Table saw, band saw, jointer. Shop smith (no idea how to work it) and hand tools for which I am building a dutchstyle tool chest.

What kind of wax? I've used car wax (mostly carnauba) on some unpainted steel armor I've got and that worked fairly well, though I needed to re-apply often. I've got a lot of bowling alley wax, could I use that?

[Brian Hale]

I use Boeshield T9 on hand tools and machines with good results. Clean well with alcohol and apply a heavy coat and allow to dry overnight. On areas that get a lot of use like handplane soles and TS top I regulary apply renaissance wax. I believe cleaning is the key, you have to remove all moisture and finger prints so the T9 can get a bite. Untill recently my shop was in a windowless non heated/ac basement and rust would begin to form after a few weeks on non use and wax alone just didn't cut it but combining it withT9 did the trick...

Brian :)

[ian maybury]

My suspicion Eric is that as ever it depends....

There as the guys say seem to be two methods that reports and experience suggest definitely work. They need combining to a degree to be effective.

(1) Oils, waxes and coatings.

They judging by the bits of testing published have their various limits, so better that it's a relatively dry workshop that reliably gets some heat in cold weather, and is not too open to big intakes of potentially humid air. It needs a lot of discipline and it's very easy to get caught out. It's also a PIA, and easy to miss inaccessible parts without disassembly.

(2) Reducing the humidity of the surrounding air so that it (and by implication the mass of metal to be protected) never gets close to the dew point temperature. (the temperature below which water will start to drop out of the air as droplets/fog)

This can be done depending on the situation by simple heating (which reduces the relative humidity), or by dehumidification (actually removing water from the air) - or both. A small heater like a the Goldenrod mentioned (but an old style light bulb reportedly does it too - i haven't needed to go this route) in a closed wooden box (the wood absorbs moisture/acts as a buffer, and doesn't cause condensation) or inside a machine cabinet reputedly achieves that in a smaller space. There are various papers and polythene bags treated with anti corrosion agents that may help this too, but I don't how well they work. Heating and dehumidification of the room may be required if storage isn't enough.

Boxes and enclosed spaces aside a damp basement with a lot of water ingress may (depending on the amount) be a step too far, and may require some sort of rectification/treatment to keep the water out. This because heating and/or dehumidification may in that case simply pull more water into the air, and/or there may be more than any reasonably sized (power) dehumidifier can handle.

It's easy to test how bad it's getting worst case (but protect your stuff in the meantime) by regularly measuring using a sling hygrometer http://www.avogadro-lab-supply.com/item/Twirling_Sling_Psychrometer_Wet_Dry_Bulb_Hygromete r/1002 and a psychrometric chart. http://docs.engineeringtoolbox.com/documents/816/psychrometric_chart_29inHg.pdf i.e. obtain wet and dry bulb temperatures with the hygrometer, and then enter them on the chart to find what the dew point temp of the air is. Then compare that to the (dry bulb/regular) temperature of the metal in the room - if the metal is below the dew point then condensation is inevitable. The charts look complex, but are dead simple - you should find a website easily that explains how to uss them: e.g. http://www.powerknot.com/how-to-read-and-use-a-psychrometric-chart.html (if not pm me)

One high risk situation is when a freeze is followwed by a warm front that brings in relatively warm and humid air. When it contacts chunks of low temperature heavy metal (slow to warm up) the instant result is huge condensation. The best protection seems to if possible be to have the means available to keep the rate of ingress of this warm air into the building very low - to give time (a day or more) for the building and its contents to warm up before they are contacted by much of the warm and wet air.

My own experience suggests that tools and machines do fine despite our 70% RH year round average humidity with occasional below freezing periods (nothing like the Eastern US exerience though) in a an insulated, damp proofed and fairly well sealed workshop provided (a) the tools are oiled/waxed, and (b) the temperature isn't allowed to drop below about about 40 deg F (ideally a bit higher) in winter.

I've so far found a wipe over with a lightly (camellia) oiled microfibre cloth after use (keep it in a poly bag that closes) works well on tools and parts, and like the fact that it doesn't mark wood, and is good for the skin. We end up regularly bathing in the stuff, and wood is already fairl hard on the hands...

Lie Nielsen are offering jojoba oil for corrosion protection now, which might be even better (it's a borderline wax that's even closer to naturally occurring skin oils, and reputedly works well for corrosion) - but i can't get it locally without being ripped off by the health/cosmetics crowd that want to sell small amounts for huge money. Rapeseed/canola oil is another that there's been work done on in industry that seems to perform well, but i'm personally very wary of some of the compunds it contains and don't like the smell. (don't ask me how it gets sold for food use)

Not too sure about commercially available anti corrosion sprays and the like - they are expensive, contain who knows what and those we get locally here (mag infomercials aside) don't seem to perform any better than the camellia oil...

[David Barbee]

I have used several things over the years then I met Mike Wenzloff at the WWIA conference and he told me he uses this product on all of his saws. I bought a can and it has worked great for me. I just spray a little on a microfiber "woobie" and put a light coat on the tools. I spray it directly onto places that are hard to get a good coating by wiping such as the knurling on chucks. In the spring I occasionally get water in my shop and I never get any rust as a result. It has a nice lemony sent and doesn't leave your hands greasy.288772