Why don't good shows last?

[Moses Yoder]

Firefly, Life on Mars, Adventures Inc., Terra Nova, Carusoe, Human Target, Moonlight, Roar, all good shows that only lasted one or two seasons while shows like Friends and 2-1/2 Men lasted for years. 2-1/2 Men is still going I think. Can anyone explain that to me?

[Roger Newby]

How did the Living Dead crap make it past the first episode?

[David Weaver]

There are only two things I can think of that drive people to do things on TV - push their viewpoint/agenda and make money.

I'd imagine the money side covers it all. It even covers relatively well rated programs getting removed when a network can replace high paid talent with stuff like reality shows.

I have never heard of any of the shows you mentioned. The only show I'd even consider turning the TV on for now (aside from golf majors, and even then only intermittently) is doc martin.

Friends existed before the internet. I don't think it would play as well now, but I didn't think it was entertaining even when it was on. I can't relate to it. I could relate to roseanne when it was on because I grew up in a rural area and knew people like the conners. Now that I live in suburbia, I've noticed most people here hate it or hated it when it was on. They can't relate to it, and manners are generally better here in suburbia and senses of humor narrow and very poorly developed (have to be too politically correct in case someone would find out what you laughed it).

Anything that comes on TV now that passes off shooting people or murdering folks, crime dramas, etc, and i'm out ...change the channel. There's enough of that garbage on the news, and I don't need to see fake made-up psychopaths, etc on TV.

[Judson Green]

I'm not familiar with any of the shows you've mentioned, but I feel you pain. I've got a hollow place in me from how "Hero's" just stopped.

[Roger Feeley]

I've stopped tuning into shows with long story arcs because the networks won't commit to finishing them. I've been burned too many times.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

One thing determines how long a show remains on the air....it's ability to draw viewers and thus it's ability to generate advertising dollars.

The show doesn't have to be popular but it has to be able to attract viewers. Think back to the early days of "All in the Family". A lot people tuned in that show when it first aired, not because they liked it but rather to see what kind of stupidity would be demonstrated there. Later, a lot of those same people became fans.

I watch little commercial television with a few exceptions. I watch some college sports and a fewer number of professional sports. When I first saw advertisements for "The Big Bang Theory" I chuckled. "That will never be a hit!" I didn't watch for 2 seasons but eventually the wife started watching it and later I joined her. Now, I enjoy the show.

I also tie my own flies and fly fish but not as much as I used to do so.

A lot of things in life are subjective. It's a matter of personal taste. Frankly, none of my local friends are woodworkers. I enjoy woodworking. It's subjective.....it's a matter of personal taste.

[Moses Yoder]

I'm not familiar with any of the shows you've mentioned, but I feel you pain. I've got a hollow place in me from how "Hero's" just stopped.

Hero's is another one, great show. We watched it (from Netflix) and loved it. Just plain dead in the water, no explanation. I prefer clean shows with some comedy in them, actors that play well off of each other with maybe a little romantic interest and an interesting story line, a mystery or a challenge of some sort. Is that too much to ask?

[Judson Green]

IIRC, Hero's was not renewed cause it cost too much to produce... suppose in contrast to the reality TV blah, I hate reality TV. It was very well received, had a prime slot and many viewers. If ya Google it youd find some news about it and the idea of a movie being kick around. I think there was a internet heroes show, but I never tuned in.

[David Dockstader]

No television network ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American television audience!

[Wade Lippman]

I've never even heard of the shows you miss; but I agree 2.5 men and Friends weren't very good.
The best show ever was "the Richard Pryor Show". It ran two episodes, and I was surprised it lasted that long.

OTOH my two all time favorites were "Monk" and "Rockford Files" and they both had long runs.

[Judson Green]

Monk was good, only watched it as reruns, but really enjoyed it.

[Ole Anderson]

Short answer? It's all about the money.

Ran across Firefly in reruns and fell in love with it. Guess there is a bit of a cult following even though it only lasted 13 episodes.

Right now I am 4 episodes from finishing on Netflix streaming the TNT series "Saving Grace" which lasted 3 seasons, ending in 2010. Not for the prudes, it is rated MA, but has a unique story line of a chain smoking, hard drinking, promiscuous female detective in Oklahoma City trying to be saved by an equally odd angel

Another one I was sorry to see go was Flashpoint, a Canadian produced police series, one of the best IMHO. Lasted 4 1/2 seasons.

With the advent of cable and all of the different channels, there are more TV shows on than one could possibly watch. Not to mention all of the reruns.

[Tim Morton]

Heroes is coming back:)

[Brian Elfert]

Vegas was a show I really liked, but it only lasted one season. Supposedly, it had good ratings, but the audience skewed older than networks really want. There are many shows in recent years that I thought got cancelled too early: CSI: New York, CSI: Miami, Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, and JAG among others. There are a half dozen other shows I miss, but I no longer remember the show names.

What I find hard to believe is how networks will have a number of episodes of a show produced and then cancel the show with episodes already paid for. I find it hard to believe showing reruns is better than running a new episode.

[Brian Ashton]

They run out of things to write about so the audience looses interest, or they change writers. I've liked Person of Interest, Homeland and a couple others since they started but it appears theirs been a shift in direction and writing style and for the most part I lost interest in them because it either poor writing or boring themes.

Person of Interest is one where the story lines have started getting bad so i've lost interest.

Lost was a show I watched from the beginning but after a couple seasons there was a change in writing style and story lines and the show was for the most part crap. Then it appeared they made another shift and the shows writing was better and it became interesting again. And then they ended it, which brings me to, I think good quality producers prefer to end on a high and not on wringing every last penny out of a show before it's pushed off the airwaves.

[Alan Bienlein]

The most I watch is The Big Bang Theory and This Old House. Other than that it's the history channel.

[Jim Matthews]

It's the cost of production, versus the revenue.

"Reality" shows don't require script writers, expensive sets or actors.
When a writer finally recognizes their worth, costs rapidly climb.

Friends was an anomaly, with a steady cast and writing core.
Say what you will about the content, but it did take the basic
idea of staging performances in front of an audience to the airwaves.

Firefly took off because of Joss Whedon's writing,
and a hungry cast of relative unknown actors
(with apologies to Ron Glass).

Television no longer has a hold on producing entertainment for people younger than 40.
That cuts deep into their odds for having an investment pay off.

[Mike Olson]

Until recently, the only way a network knew if a show was being watched or not was by those annoying surveys and some of those tracking boxes that a few families are paid to use. I'm assuming that the only people who had the time to take the surveys and use those boxes were Stay at home Mom's which is why all those horrid shows like Friends stayed for so long.

Now, with networks having websites for each of their shows they can get a better idea of what shows are actually being watched. Office Space is a big one. All the standard methods of knowing if a show was being watched said it was a dead show, but the website was seeing a HUGE amount of traffic which is the only reason it stayed on air for so long.
Firefly is one of those shows I believe would have remained if it was created now.

As for Hero's it was a great show in the beginning but the last season they were really stretching to find things to write about. I can understand why it was canceled, even though I did like it.

[mike holden]

Firefly, Life on Mars, Adventures Inc., Terra Nova, Carusoe, Human Target, Moonlight, Roar, all good shows that only lasted one or two seasons while shows like Friends and 2-1/2 Men lasted for years. 2-1/2 Men is still going I think. Can anyone explain that to me?

Because not enough people agree with you that they ARE good.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

The most I watch is The Big Bang Theory and This Old House. Other than that it's the history channel.


LOL, I was just going to post that two of my favorites have lasted a long time, these very two.

THis thread is eerily similar to the BBT episode where Sheldon is protesting the cancellation of some show.

[Eric DeSilva]

How did the Living Dead crap make it past the first episode?

Are you talking about The Walking Dead? If so, because it is a well produced, well filmed, character-driven series that tackles challenging issues and has little to do with zombies at all. On the other hand, if you are talking about True Blood or anything having to do with teen-oriented angst, I don't have a clue.

[Mike Olson]

Are you talking about The Walking Dead? If so, because it is a well produced, well filmed, character-driven series that tackles challenging issues and has little to do with zombies at all. On the other hand, if you are talking about True Blood or anything having to do with teen-oriented angst, I don't have a clue.

Also, with the Walking Dead, it's one of the few shows that I am always surprised with what will happen next.. My wife hated when I told her the secret to always knowing who dun-it on her cop shows. If you have seen the actor before in something else, that's the one who did it. Oh, and if they ever introduce a character for seemingly no reason, guess what. they did it...

[Brian Elfert]

Another series that I wish hadn't ended was ER. My understanding is that the studio making the show jacked the price to the network way up in the last few years even though all the big stars had left. ER was kinda running out of steam at the end. By the end almost every actor who was in the first season had left. A lot of actors really got their start on ER and left to make more money in movies.

[Jim Rimmer]

This is a great thread. As I read through it several comments came to mind. To those who liked Monk, check out Death in Paradise on BBS; think Monk on a tropical island. I'm a big fan of Big Bang Theory as well. I watch a lot of British mysteries on PBS and Netflix. Check out The Artful Detective on the Ovation channel; Toronto detective in the 1890s. Love Doc Martin.

[Stew Hagerty]

OK, I hope you don't think that I'm hijacking this thread because that is not my intent. Think of this as more of a tangent...

First there was the SciFi Channel. And originally they had some pretty good programming. Then the major network guys got their hooks into it and destroyed it.

Now it is Syfy. What the heck is a Syfy? And the shows... Their entire schedule is filled with wrestling, ghost hunting shows, and dress-up shows (Cosplay). Oh sure, there is Warehouse 13 but it is going off the air. So the only real science fiction shows they have on the whole network are Lost Girl and Continuum. Oh, and I'm not counting Defiance, because they only did like half a dozen shows before they were done for a whole year (not season).

[glenn bradley]

Maybe shows that become popular are a barometric indicator of our dilapidated education system?

[Chuck Wintle]

Firefly, Life on Mars, Adventures Inc., Terra Nova, Carusoe, Human Target, Moonlight, Roar, all good shows that only lasted one or two seasons while shows like Friends and 2-1/2 Men lasted for years. 2-1/2 Men is still going I think. Can anyone explain that to me?

I was really liking Vegas but it was dropped after 1 season and Breaking Bad except that one lasted 5 seasons. I think it has a lot to do with viewership and advertising revenue.

[Kev Williams]

First there was the SciFi Channel. And originally they had some pretty good programming. Then the major network guys got their hooks into it and destroyed it.

Now it is Syfy. What the heck is a Syfy?

Anyone remember MTV? When it was an acronym for MUSIC TV? I used to like going to the dentist for root canals because I could lay back in the chair on the gas and watch music video's on the ceiling! :D

Now, trying to find music on MTV is a like trying to buy a snowmobile in Phoenix...

And, maybe I'm the only one, but WHY won't the Simpsons go away??
;)

[Michael Weber]

Only two really good shows in the last 20 years. "Breaking Bad" and "Northern Exposure". At least until the Fleishman character left. Both were creative, intelligent, and clever with beautiful cinematography. I do watch "Big Bang" but it's becoming more and more just one innuendo after another. Writers run out of ideas or people tire of shows and they try to appeal to others by changing from what originally appealed to people. Watch a lot of PBS, BBC in America, and Netflix. Some HGTV and DIY. I watched about a minute of "Bad Teacher" last week. Won't make that mistake again.

[Kevin Bourque]

The whole idea behind television is to mesmerize the viewers into a mindless stupor. Thats when the agenda based messages start to sink in.

Numb the brain then reprogram the brain.

Rinse & repeat.

[Larry Edgerton]

Stay away from TV for a few years and then when you do see it you will realize how stupid it all is. I see old shows we used to watch and think, "We watched that?"

Cleanse your mind for other dumb stuff, quit cold turkey!:)

[Brian Elfert]

Stay away from TV for a few years and then when you do see it you will realize how stupid it all is. I see old shows we used to watch and think, "We watched that?"


I am definitely a slave to my TV. I sometimes wonder why I pay $100 a month for cable TV service. That is $1,200 a year that could go to better use. I have had a DVR for a long time so at least I'm not a slave to sitting down at a certain time to watch a specific program. On the other hand, the DVR means I can watch TV at any time and I always have stuff to watch. I never sit down to mindlessly channel surf.

I tend to be lazy and watching TV is easy. If there is a really interesting project I have going on I will work on that and watch very little TV. I work on my bus conversion during the summer and sometimes I work on that from the time I get home until 9 or 10 at night seven days a week. I will be living with my parents for a time while I am between houses. They probably will not like me watching as much TV as I do. It will be hard to work on my bus conversion while I am staying there.

[Jim Matthews]

Nah.

Kids don't watch TV.

[Jim Matthews]

And, maybe I'm the only one, but WHY won't the Simpsons go away?? ;)

The Simpsons pay for and retain good writers,
including Conan O'Brien.

They've got a locker room full of Emmys for writing, production and direction.
Somehow, they manage to remain relevant.

[Curt Harms]

Until recently, the only way a network knew if a show was being watched or not was by those annoying surveys and some of those tracking boxes that a few families are paid to use. I'm assuming that the only people who had the time to take the surveys and use those boxes were Stay at home Mom's which is why all those horrid shows like Friends stayed for so long.

Now, with networks having websites for each of their shows they can get a better idea of what shows are actually being watched. Office Space is a big one. All the standard methods of knowing if a show was being watched said it was a dead show, but the website was seeing a HUGE amount of traffic which is the only reason it stayed on air for so long.
Firefly is one of those shows I believe would have remained if it was created now.

As for Hero's it was a great show in the beginning but the last season they were really stretching to find things to write about. I can understand why it was canceled, even though I did like it.

I suspect the ability of media companies - Comcast, Time Warner cable et.al. to know what set top boxes are tuned to which channels and if the attached TV is actually on has made a difference. They can get a much more accurate picture of what's being watched and the production companies have more accurate data on which to base their decisions. Of course a show needs time to build an audience and if they don't have a good promotion team they may not get that time. As Jim noted the demographic most sought by advertisers - 18-45 yr. olds - no longer rely heavily on TV for information and entertainment. I read recently, can't recall where that more ad $ have flowed to internet based concerns than to TV.

[David Weaver]

I'm in their key demographic, and I think they are making a big mistake trying to key programming toward my generation, but it must be the generation that advertisers want them to target.

My generation is never going to watch TV like those who are age 60 or so now, and I can't remember the last time I saw an ad on TV and made a purchase because of it (and I've certainly never done anything stupid like telling a doctor I want a pill based on an ad).

I'm sure talk with advertisers has more weight with the networks than the #of people watching.

[Brian Elfert]

I suspect the ability of media companies - Comcast, Time Warner cable et.al. to know what set top boxes are tuned to which channels and if the attached TV is actually on has made a difference. They can get a much more accurate picture of what's being watched and the production companies have more accurate data on which to base their decisions. Of course a show needs time to build an audience and if they don't have a good promotion team they may not get that time. As Jim noted the demographic most sought by advertisers - 18-45 yr. olds - no longer rely heavily on TV for information and entertainment. I read recently, can't recall where that more ad $ have flowed to internet based concerns than to TV.

I wonder how Comcast would know if the TV is on or not? I guess with HDMI the DVR has to handshake with the TV. I just leave my DVR turned on all the time because I think the power usage from off to on is negligible since the unit is always drawing power. My usage data would show many hours of viewing if they just went by the DVR being turned on.

[Judson Green]

I wonder how straight to streaming shows work/get revenue? Like Netflix has "House of Cards" and a few other shows and their quality programs, with good, known actors. I've no idea how many folks like me are paying their $8 (or whatever) monthly dues, but surely Kevin Spacey (and company) doesn't come cheaply, not to mention the crew, set, production and so on.

[Brian Elfert]

I wonder how straight to streaming shows work/get revenue? Like Netflix has "House of Cards" and a few other shows and their quality programs, with good, known actors. I've no idea how many folks like me are paying their $8 (or whatever) monthly dues, but surely Kevin Spacey (and company) doesn't come cheaply, not to mention the crew, set, production and so on.

Netflix has to pay for all those other shows and movies they have available for viewing. Apparently they can produce their own shows for the same cost as what they pay for shows.

[Judson Green]

Netflix has to pay for all those other shows and movies they have available for viewing. Apparently they can produce their own shows for the same cost as what they pay for shows.

But Netflix alone doesn't pay for let's say "Mad Men". If whatever entity that borne the cost of that show felt it wasn't working out it'd have gotten the pink slip and may never have made it to Netflix. I have to image that totally producing in house as gotta cost more, and no commercials, there is product placement though, I don't know what that's worth. And the growing pains associated with this newish endeavor. Wonder if we'd see reruns of " House of Cards" on a Saturday afternoon on ABC.

[Michael Mahan]

Another one I was sorry to see go was Flashpoint, a Canadian produced police series, one of the best IMHO. Lasted 4 1/2 seasons.

.
FlashPoint was picked for a new season maybe 2 IIRC , but that was in Canada as it's a Canadian owned production & is getting tread & notice in Europe & other places in the world market , so it's making money Just none of the Big 4 wanted it right now
it'll pop on cable next winter OR if some show that bombs right outta the stall , then it will be back on a network
I kinda liked FlashPoint this it was goofy stupid at times but watchable