Are Shelix heads worth the cost?

[Michael Yadfar]

I'm relatively new to woodworking and someone brought up adding a Shelix head to a table top planer I may buy. I looked up Shelix heads and now I know what they are. I also know it would be $450 for the Shelix head, almost as much as the Dewalt 735 planer itself. All together it would be around $1100 including tax.

My question is if this is worth buying. By this I basically mean that I have the money to afford one, but I'm wondering how much of an advantage it gives and if I would be better off buying a better planer for $1100 without a shelix head?

I'm a hobbiest by the way, this is not for commercial use

[Sam Babbage]

It's all a matter of perspective. Shelix heads are awesome, with many benefits and no significant downsides (in my opinion,) but it comes down to a cost benefit analysis. Do the benefits outweigh the cost, for your specific circumstances, and can the capital be better used elsewhere? Personally I consider putting a Shelix in a 735 to be over-capitalisation. One of the main benefits of a Shelix is the huge reduction in noise, but this is offset by the motor in a 735. You are asking a tricky question because it depends so much on your individual needs and budget. Given my circumstances, I would invest in a bigger planer or combination with or without a Shelix depending on budget, and if without consider upgrading down the track.

[Jeff Duncan]

I think you'll find they are very popular. Personally if it's between an $1100 planer or a $650 planer with a $450 insert head, I'd opt for the better planer. My feeling is you can always upgrade the head at a later time as long as the rest of the planer is decent quality. Just my opinion though!

good luck,
JeffD

[Michael Yadfar]

It's a really tough decision. If I were to go with straight blades, I would probably buy the Makita table top jointer. I don't quite have room for a stationary one but that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider it. If the Shelix head gives me a major advantage, I would definitely consider going with Dewalt and getting the Shelix head. But you are definitely correct, what's considered "worth it" for me may be different from "worth it" from someone else. Issue is, I don't quite know what "worth it" really is. I really wouldn't know until I were to go out and actually buy one...

[Dave Bonde]

The others have given you excellent advise. My input is also not going to give you a clear yes or no. I have been a woodworker for over 30 years. Bought my first planer when the little Ryobi AP-10 hit the market 25ish years ago and just (a month ago) installed a Shelix in my current planer a 20" Powermatic. I upgraded because I was not happy with the tear out I was getting, the noise reduction is great and hard to compare until you hear the results but was not the reason and would not be worth the money to me. I also have a well equipped shop and really do not have any tools on my must have or need list right now so buying the shelix did not delay a needed tool. If someone asked me was the upgrade worth it I would say absolutely because the upgrade has eliminated all the tear out I was getting before the change. I worked a lot of years without it without thinking I needed one. On the other hand thinking back to all the wood I have planed without it and now say I wish I would have bought it earlier, so who knows??:) Lots for you to consider, buy now and pay the price, bigger planer without shelix, adding another tool instead .... I can say the only negative I can think of is the initial investment. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

I put a shelix head in a used dc-380, I love it. All together, used planer, new head, cost me just over $1k. Beats the pants off the dewalt, which I had previous to the delta. I used the delta with straight knives for several years before doing the upgrade, that was a much better experience than the dewalt too. I'm guessing the shelix in a dewalt will give you a bit less noise, and reduced chip out, long blade life.....but the depth per pass isn't going to change, it just feels limited, and at that cost, I don't see the sense. My primary problem with the dewalt was you can't take much more than 1/32" per pass much beyond 6" boards, and that's awfully slow. Not that I'm in a huge rush in the home shop, and I like milling stock, but it's too time consuming on a large project. So I'm in the save your pennies and go up market camp. But I have the space for the floor planer, the need, and all the rest of the tools are in place, so it may be a different circumstance?

[John Schweikert]

I put a Byrd in my Jet jointer and never looked back. Simply a superb finish is what I get. I'm looking for a planer to add a Byrd, but being patient since I have a small planer that does fine for now.

Just remember you can get 10% off and free shipping for Byrd heads at Holbren with the discount code which can be found in the forums/deals and discounts.

Something else to consider when buying a Byrd head is that you are getting 4 entire cutting edges to all the little square cutters. They last far longer than HSS knives.

[Charles Coolidge]

Both my planer and jointer have Shelix cutter heads, love em. So quiet my dust collector is louder.

[glenn bradley]

I pondered putting a shelix into a lunchbox planer but, most folks advised against it. I took their advice and spent a little more on a 15" floor machine with the head already in it. As to cost analysis, the spirals win every time. I found this to be true in my research tracking my own sharpening / replacing schedule in the past versus the performance of my new spiral head machines. There was at least one magazine article that took this to the bitter end in cost comparisons; the spiral is much less expensive over time. As for me, I paid for the difference in price on a new Grizzly planer in the first year or so. From here on out its all gravy.

[Michael Yadfar]

Basically what I'm picking up from the advice here is that the Shelix head is an improvement on a bench top planer, but not really worth it on that kind of planer. But if I can find a better stationary planer and shell out the bucks, it would be worth it in that case. Definitely a lot to think about...

[Larry Frank]

As others have said, it breaks down to a cost analysis. If you are putting a lot of board feet through a planer each year then it is likely worth it. Also, if you need to run types of wood which are prone to tear out, it is worth it.


For me, I probably run at most 500 board feet through my planer each year and could not justify it as typically I am putting red oak or ash through the planer. I buy high quality straight blades for my planer and they have worked fine for me.

[Sam Babbage]

Basically what I'm picking up from the advice here is that the Shelix head is an improvement on a bench top planer, but not really worth it on that kind of planer. But if I can find a better stationary planer and shell out the bucks, it would be worth it in that case. Definitely a lot to think about...

I think that's a fair summary, unless you have a compelling reason to limit yourself to a lunchbox planer, then a 735 with spiral would be an excellent choice (but the money may be better spent elsewhere, depending on your equipment/requirements.) Space would be the most likely reason for this, and in that case I would investigate spending more on a combination, again with or without a Shelix. A side-benefit of a combination is you get both your jointing and planing "upgraded" for the cost of a single Shelix.

EDIT: Clarification

[Jack Lemley]

I put a Shelix on my 735 last year and am very happy with the results!

Jack

[James Hansen]

I'll add some other +'s of the Shelix head, I went form 15" with straight blades to a 20" Shelix head (planer) . with a lot of time spent setting up straight blades, you will still get some waviness in hard wood, like hard white maple. this waviness can be time consuming to sand out, the finish on the same wood with the Shelix head is way better, this takes way less effort to sand out.

I have also got a set of straight blades back from being sharpened and put a nick in them that now leaves a visible line in your planed wood, time to either have them sharpened or do the offset trick of one blade which is still time consuming to move and reset the blade. If the same happens with the Shelix head, just find the nicked blade and rotate it 90 degrees and get back to work.

[Loren Woirhaye]

No. Get a stroke sander instead.

"Cost" is I think actually a business or accounting term and it is not only the price of a given thing, but the price of maintaining it, using it, and the time cost in compensating for its weaknesses.

The fancy head doesn't take away much sanding time. It takes away time in industrial applications though because the carbide things are easy to turn and maintain, as opposed to the cost of knife grinding, either by grinding on the planer or removing the knives and doing it off, then resetting them.

The insert heads are said to be quieter. I've never used one. I can't see much advantage though because so many woodworking machines make a racket the idea of a quieter shop is really absurd. Cut quality and "feel" is also said to be nice, though the cut surface will be sanded off anyway in most circumstances.

[Michael Yadfar]

Yea this really comes down to a thinking game. My workshop budget just recently expanded, but I still have a very small shop and don't expect to have anything bigger for at least 3 years. So come to think about it, a larger stationary machine may be out of question. I guess what it really comes down to is whether or not it's worth putting a Shelix head on a bench top jointer. It may be a slight stretch but I should be able to fit it into my budget. The big question of how much it's really worth is still out there, but that's something I really got to think about. All this advice I've gotten and the advice still coming in are really making my decision a bit easier though.

Something I've read online is that Shelix heads on jointers aren't worth it. I have a jet jointer with straight knives, but they say it's pointless to upgrade that to a Shelix if I have a Shelix head on a planer, because I can just do touch up work on the planer and the router is more for rough work. Sounds like good advice there, especially with the fact there's no way I have room for both on budget!

Something off topic that I found interesting is that the new Shelix head on Amazon with free shipping is $50 less than the price on the website of the the maker of Shelix.

[Brad Adams]

I have a insert cutter head on my jet jointer. I wish I would have done it sooner. I find myself using the jointer twice as much as before. I say, if its in your budget go for it. You won't be sorry. Anyone who says they aren't worth it, doesn't have one. I never heard anyone say they wish they had their straight knives back.

[Loren Woirhaye]

I never regretted buying a Lie-Nielsen because I knew if I didn't find myself using it I could turn around and sell it at 90% of retail.

Point being you can't do that with a new machine or a machine upgrade like a cutterhead. If your woodworking equipment dollars are finite... well, I seldom regretted any tool I ever bought but I sold plenty of them after I found they weren't useful to me anymore. The only machines I lost money on were the ones I bought new.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

You will get about as many opinions as there are members at SMC about Shelix and similar heads.

I have a similar head on a 8" Grizzly jointer. My reason for buying it? No alignments when you change blades/bits/cutterheads. Loosen or remove a screw, rotate the cutterhead 90º, reinstall and torque screw and GO!

If I ever have to replace my Ridgid 13" lunchbox planer, I will probably look at replacing it with a something with similar cutterheads as it's quieter and no alignments after cutter changes.

[Peter Quinn]

Re: Shelix head on jointer. Definitely worth it. In fact, I chose to do that one first. You can't plane off the edges of boards, they are visible and need good surfaces, I was getting as much tear out there or more than on faces. It's true that a shelix planer may clean up wide faces behind a straight knife jointer, but not always enough room to flatten and clean up deep tear out.

[Michael Yadfar]

I know it would be worth it in a jointer, I wasn't debating that. I just heard that if I had to choose between a jointer and planer, I should buy a Shelix head for the planer first

[Paul Incognito]

I have experience with your original question, about putting the shelix on the DeWalt or getting a bigger machine.

I had the DeWalt lunchbox. I was planing a lot of reclaimed lumber and really going through blades. I got a Byrd head for it. It was a fairly easy install, the machine got much quieter and dust collection was better.
The negative was that the Byrd head actually takes more horsepower to run, so my depth of cut per pass was reduced.
I had the oportunity to trade up to a Bridgewood 15" with straight knives. I did that and never looked back. It's "only" 2" wider than the DeWalt, but it's way more than twice the machine. Even with the straight knives, it outperformed the lunchbox in every way. It was a screamer though, like an air raid siren.

If I had it to do over again, I'd skip the lunchbox and go to at least a 15" stationary machine.
I'm currently saving up to put a Byrd head on my P-24...

Hope this helps,
Paul

[Dennis Nagle]

I think it all depends on your situation. I have this Oliver 144 6" jointer that has a 1hp 3ph motor on the head and the motor shaft is also the jointer head shaft. It is so cool that I am sending it out to be retrofitted with a Shelix head. The jointer and stand weigh just over 700lbs. It is just to cool looking to let sit idle. P.S., it has the "Clamshell" head on it now and those are widow makers.

[Michael Yadfar]

There's not even a Shelix head for my 6" Jet jointer so I guess that's out of the question anyway. I got it for a good price. I got a lot of extra blades with it, and while I never changed straight blades yet, man it looks like a huge pain!

[Frank Martin]

One thing to realize is that the benchtop planers are awfully noisy and alsp have a shorter life span than stationaly planers. When I first started I had the Delta benchtop and upgraded to a floor unit very quickly. My opinion is that being a benchtop it is too much additional money to put a shelix head on a Dewalt planer. I am not sure how small is your space but it may be a good idea to look and see how you can fit in a floor model or a combo jointer / planer. In my prior house I was in a one car garage and had a 12" jointer / planer combo, a Unisaw, an Oneida Gorilla cyclone in addition to a full size bench etc. Saying this to illustrate it may be possible with some thinking to fit in a larger machine.

[Michael Yadfar]

One thing to realize is that the benchtop planers are awfully noisy and alsp have a shorter life span than stationaly planers. When I first started I had the Delta benchtop and upgraded to a floor unit very quickly. My opinion is that being a benchtop it is too much additional money to put a shelix head on a Dewalt planer. I am not sure how small is your space but it may be a good idea to look and see how you can fit in a floor model or a combo jointer / planer. In my prior house I was in a one car garage and had a 12" jointer / planer combo, a Unisaw, an Oneida Gorilla cyclone in addition to a full size bench etc. Saying this to illustrate it may be possible with some thinking to fit in a larger machine.

Yea that's mostly my big question: if a table top planer is even worth the Shelix head. I already have a jointer so I don't really have much consideration for a combo machine even though I should of bought one. It would be possible to buy a stationary one, I can just put it on wheels which is possible. Considering I was thinking about spending $600 for a new Dewalt planer, I can probably find a used stationary one for not much more, like in the $1000 range. A planer is one machine I don't mind shelling bucks out for because I feel it's one of the most commonly used machines and it's also one of the closest parts to the final product. Once my shop is complete which is right around the corner, I'm probably going to take on a huge project like a coffee table. I have a lot of woodworking experience, I just never owned my own shop. If I sell the motorcycle I never use that's sitting in my shop, I can extend my budget even more. So maybe going stationary is my answer...

[Michael Yadfar]

I actually just same across a stationary one on craigslist:
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/4414486738.html

I know nothing about old planers though so I don't know if I'm getting a fair deal or not. But $900 is only $300 more than the Dewalt lunch box I was considering

[Jon Nuckles]

Two things to add to what has already been said:
1. Blade changes are much easier on the Dewalt than on some other straight blade machines. The blades are self-aligning, so all you have to do is drop them in and tighten.
2. The Dewalt gives a very good finish cut for a benchtop unit. In fact, the 735 gave me a better finish cut than the 15" stationary Delta that replaced it. I can certainly remove wood faster now, but I spend more time with the handplane or sander.

If you have the space and the money, get a bigger machine and a Byrd head. If not, you might be very happy with the 735 as is.

[Brian Gumpper]

From talking to customers the biggest reason they seem to want to change to the Byrd head on the DW735 is the factory knives do not last very long and are expensive. One guy kept six sets in his truck and all times and at $50 a set the math starts to work out. WebRep


currentVote


noRating
noWeight

[Loren Woirhaye]

Makita planers have a couple of issues: 1. the rollers age and need replacing. 2. they are 110v machines running universal (brush type) motors, so they are loud and power is limited. The one you're considering is the wider model they sold.

I had a Belsaw for awhile and really liked it. They are simple to understand and are generally overpowered with 3-5hp motors. You might consider one if you can bear the width limitations.

[David Kumm]

I'd stay with a Delta 13 or 15" stationary for the Byrd. they go for 400-800 used and the table is fixed so you can use homemade table extenders or other machine tables for infeed and outfeed. Helps when space is limited as small stationary planers have short tables. RC33 and later DC33 are good candidates. Dave

[Loren Woirhaye]

I agree about the Invicta/Delta style planers being good. I have a 15" Invicta knockoff and it works well and has good dust collection.

[Michael Yadfar]

I agree about the Invicta/Delta style planers being good. I have a 15" Invicta knockoff and it works well and has good dust collection.

So I guess the makita jointer I found on Craigslist is no good really? I mean I will keep an eye out for the Delta planers, I hate to jump the gun and buy something I would regret. Is there a specific model of delta to look out for?

Like here's one I just saw: http://cnj.craigslist.org/tls/4429020111.html

[Matt Berry]

Do yourself a favor, skip the lunchbox planer and step up to a stationary planer. Spiral cutters are worth the upgrade as they help to reduce tear out on figured woods, are quieter and produce a smoother finish. However they are a waste of money on a lunch box planer (Under powered and cut slower)

[Loren Woirhaye]

yeah, that's an Invicta. Good machine.

[Michael Yadfar]

I'd stay with a Delta 13 or 15" stationary for the Byrd. they go for 400-800 used and the table is fixed so you can use homemade table extenders or other machine tables for infeed and outfeed. Helps when space is limited as small stationary planers have short tables. RC33 and later DC33 are good candidates. Dave

I just looked on the Byrd website and they don't have any heads listed for any of those models...

[joe maday]

Michael, call holbren....many heads sre interchangeable with many brands, not all are listed on the websites. speak to Dan or Brian...they will give you the info as to which head would fit the RC/DC 33 models. Holbren will also price match and install bearings etc. If you do get a lunch box planer....skip the segmented head .....save it for the biger machine....my advice.....if you are mech. inclinded....get a used 15" delta, jet, grizzly powermatic, then upgrade later...not hard to do , just time consuming. Well worth for figured woods and time saved changing/sharpening knives. Also dust collection with the segmented cutters is vastly improved! no cloged hoses when planing wide boards.

[Cary Falk]

I have one in both my 8" jointer and my 15" planer. The one in the jointer is 5 years old and not a nick one yet. Not the case with the HSS knives that I had before and ususally showed up after a couple of boards. If the ease of flipping the inserts vs setting knives is not worth the price of admission then the reduction of noise, reduced tearout, and length of service is.

[David Kumm]

The picture is a dc 33. The DC 33 and 380 are listed by Byrd at 895 as is the RC 33 head. Look at rockwell for that. The DC 380- blue Delta- were a 15" made in Taiwan to replace the DC33 which was made there after the move from Brazil. The one benefit that machine has is a 3 hp motor. The 2 hp on the 13" machines is a little small for a Byrd. I have a DC33 with a Byrd but use it mainly as a finish planer. Not meant for a lot of stock removal. The Byrd does consume more power than a straight knife machine. I like the fixed table and the slower speed of the Delta units. Most of the older Asian knockoffs ran at a faster feed speed than the Delta. Later X machines went to China. The blue ones are my choice. Dave

[Jack Lemley]

Loren,

Good definition of "cost". Close to concluding a graduate degree in accounting. The Shelix head is much quieter than the straight knives and requires much less sanding time as well in my experience with the Byrd. If my 735 ever gives up the ghost I will either get another 735 or larger planer but the Byrd head is non-negotiable.

Jack


No. Get a stroke sander instead.

"Cost" is I think actually a business or accounting term and it is not only the price of a given thing, but the price of maintaining it, using it, and the time cost in compensating for its weaknesses.

The fancy head doesn't take away much sanding time. It takes away time in industrial applications though because the carbide things are easy to turn and maintain, as opposed to the cost of knife grinding, either by grinding on the planer or removing the knives and doing it off, then resetting them.

The insert heads are said to be quieter. I've never used one. I can't see much advantage though because so many woodworking machines make a racket the idea of a quieter shop is really absurd. Cut quality and "feel" is also said to be nice, though the cut surface will be sanded off anyway in most circumstances.

[Tony Leonard]

Santa brought me a Shelix for my 735 last year. I have really appreciated having it. I was planing some tiger maple the other night and it didn't care which direction I sent the wood through. It doesn't seem to produce the glass smooth surfaces thata new set of knives did, but those didn't last long after the knives were used a little. It might be a little more quiet, but I wear ear protection so I don't care. No issues to speak of. I broke several cutters, but I think they were over torqued perhaps? I'm very pleased with the performance. I'm not going to argue cost - that is subjective. My 735 was several years old when I upgraded. I did get tired of buying and replacing the knives. Seems like there was always a nick I couldn't shift out.

Not sure what I'd do if I was looking to replace the 735. I might move up if I had the money.

Tony

[Jim Andrew]

No way I'd want to have 1100 in a lunchbox planer. The best buy for a new 15" planer is usually Grizzly, especially if it is on sale. Baileigh has a 15% off sale right now, have not checked out their planer, but the Jet and Powermatic are basically the same as a Grizzly. Just usually more expensive. Just checked the Grizzly website, the GO453px, the model with spiral cutterhead is 1695 right now, plus a little for shipping. The Grizzly shipping rates are amazingly low. Check out Grizzly Industrial.com

[Kelby Van Patten]

Investing $1100 in a benchtop planer seems silly.

If you want a cheap planer, then make do with the benchtop as it is. If you're willing to spend the cash, then save up for a nice new planer. If you want to split the difference, then the solution is to buy a good planer used. Spending a lot of money fixing up an inferior planer but new should not be an option.

[Michael Yadfar]

Yea right now I'm probably going to buy a used stationary planer. These are not easy to find, there are very few available on Craigslist and none of them are really what I'm looking for. So if anyone knows any good auction websites, let me know. I may even consider buying new, because like someone said, I can pay like $400 more and get a stationary grizzly planer with a spiral head. I may be getting a grizzly bandsaw too, so it may be worth taking the 3 hour trip to the showroom if I decide to get two machines. I understand grizzly is only a mediocre brand, but I'm also running a small personal shop. The reason why I don't want a lunch box planer with straight blades is because I heard these things chip so easily, they're hard to set, and I already saw the relatively high blade price. I may not be running a lot of boards, but I'm going to use rough sawn lumber so it's gonna take a few passes....

[Joseph Montroy]

If you are going to be milling rough lumber regularly, then you definitely want a stand alone machine! In my opinion, without a flat true board, you can't make anything. I held out for a pair of 1950's powermatic pieces (planet and jointer) and couldn't be happier. I'm only 2 years into this hobby but feel those two machines really are the foundation (I buy ALL my lumber rough). I've go with an older machine and upgrade the head later. Just my .02,