dovetail saw choice

[Bruce Mack]

I have a Veritas 16 tpi crosscut, refiled as a rip saw. Amazingly, since I take no credit, it saws straight and narrow. I'd like something more traditional and with about 14tpi. Price considerations exclude Bad Axe and other custom saws. I wonder if there is any experience with the Wenzloff dovetail from Lee Valley, especially if someone in this forum owns one from the Lee Valley source? The other possibility is the Lie Nielsen. Thanks.

[David Weaver]

I've only had mike's kits, but he uses top shelf stuff. I've never heard an honest bad word about his made saws, and if anything, he tortures himself by making saws for a wage a lot of us wouldn't work at (something easy to figure out when you make a couple of saws from kits or scratch).

A vintage english saw in good shape is an option, too, but any of the dovetail saws available are capable, and if you don't like their feel (too much bite or whatever, or not enough), fixing it is only a file away.

[Brian Deakin]

Please see link below

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/acatalog/pax_1776_dovetail_saw.html#SID=436




It contains some useful infromation on points to consider

regards Brian

[Jim Matthews]

Buy the Bad Axe.

Keep it clean.
If you don't like it, resale is easy.

[Mike Henderson]

I like the LNs.

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

I've only had mike's kits, but he uses top shelf stuff. I've never heard an honest bad word about his made saws, and if anything, he tortures himself by making saws for a wage a lot of us wouldn't work at (something easy to figure out when you make a couple of saws from kits or scratch).

A vintage english saw in good shape is an option, too, but any of the dovetail saws available are capable, and if you don't like their feel (too much bite or whatever, or not enough), fixing it is only a file away.

Totally agree David! Mike was the first custom saw maker of the new generation, that is, after LN bought out IT, Adria and a few others had been established for a few years. His work has set the standard, and his bar is high. I've always been amazed that his prices are not higher. They deserve to be. If they were twice as much they would still be reasonable. I have several of his saws, as well as made saws from his plates and saw backs. Every one is made to the same standard. I have not used the saws available via LV, however I cannot imagine that the plates would be less well made and sharpened than the custom versions.

Bruce, if you are looking for a "traditional" dovetail saw, I would recommend something closer to 16 ppi rip. I do not know what the rake options are at LV, but zero degrees rake is going to provide a fast cutting, powerful saw but at the expense of ease of starting the cut. A more relaxed rake, in the order of 5 degrees, might be a better choice for someone with a little experience. A very relaxed start would come from about 14 degrees of rake.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bruce Mack]

Thanks everyone.
I do own a Bad Axe sash saw and agree that it cuts better than I deserve, but with the dovetail saw choice I'm trying to show restraint.
Derek - I like the 16 tooth rip conversion on the Veritas, but was looking for a little more speed of cut.
I have a hanging cabinet project, just painted pine, for which the case will be dovetailed. While I'm accustomed to using Japanese dozukis for the joinery, I'll use the refiled Veritas and think about whether I want to stretch for 14 tpi. If I do, I think I'll opt for Mike's saw. Owning a Wenzloff would be an honor.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Bruce

A 16 ppi with zero rake will cut faster and may give you a smoother cut than a 14 ppi with a more relaxed rake. I think that the LV is 14 degrees.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

I would get something aggressive, once you're sawing well you want to be sawing fast.
I have a LN, but a Wenzloff will probably be the next saw I purchase regardless of type. For instance, The Kenyon seaton sash saw is very tempting.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

If you decide that you don't want the 16 tpi saw at all, when you're dealing with teeth that small, (16 and 14 tpi) it's not overly difficult to joint and refile teeth, and you're not talking about losing a lot of plate. Always an option, although doesn't sound like were you want to go.

[Jim Koepke]

I recently received a kit and an extra plate from Ron Bontz. Haven't had the time to make a handle for the kit as of yet. The spare plate was sharpened to my liking and used to replace an old gap toothed saw plate, it has me smiling.

We are fortunate with so many choices in today's market.

We can also be victims of the paralysis of analysis due to the fear of not knowing which will be best for our own use.

IMO, there may be a few outliers in the mix but most of the modern saw makers are all supplying good, quality work. The difference for the user will be in the handle and the tooth specifications. This is where learning to file a saw is a real help in discovering where the sweet spot resides for one's own work. It cannot be explained, but you will know it when you feel it.

Next is the handle. There are not many saws in my shop that haven't had the handle 'adjusted' a bit to feel better in my hand. My best feeling handle is one of my own making. It may not feel good in someone else's hand, but that is not a worry for me.

jtk

[Christopher Charles]

Not to add to the potential analysis paralysis, but I have the Gramercy dovetail saw that I built from a kit. Don't have much experience with any other proper DT saws but can't imagine needed anything else. Cuts fast, straight and starts easily. Think the price has gone up since I bought mine.

Good luck!

[george wilson]

DO NOT BUY A GARLICK SAW. They are absolutely garbage. Soft as butter and ground rough as a cob. They bought some at Williamsburg before I became toolmaker. They were so horridly rough,guys were trying to stone the blades smoother,which was a super pain of a job to get the deeper scratches out.

I read the link."Ultimate beauty in a saw"!!!! Those guys need design lessons.

[Pat Barry]

We can also be victims of the paralysis of analysis due to the fear of not knowing which will be best for our own use.
I doubt that sort of thing could happen around here. LOL

[Pat Barry]

DO NOT BUY A GARLICK SAW. They are absolutely garbage. Soft as butter and ground rough as a cob. They bought some at Williamsburg before I became toolmaker. They were so horridly rough,guys were trying to stone the blades smoother,which was a super pain of a job to get the deeper scratches out.

I read the link."Ultimate beauty in a saw"!!!! Those guys need design lessons.
I suspect since they are still in business that they have improved things a bunch since back then. At least I would hope they have. Then again, maybe they are striving for 18th C authenticity and thats what you get "We are the last remaining traditional saw manufacturer in the UK with brands dating back to the 18th century."