Question about door jambs...

[mreza Salav]

Soon (hopefully!) the drywalls will be put up in our new house and I can move to install the 31 interior doors I built (that are stored in my shop since).

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?214011-3rd-%28and-Final%29-batch-of-interior-doors&highlight=

I will be building the jambs (out of Maple) and I am thinking to make them 4 5/8" wide (for the typical 2x4 walls with 1/2" drywall).
I have never done this before (building/installing a door) and what I am not sure about is this:

Will 4 5/8" wide jamb leave me enough wiggle room to make the door plumb and at the same time have the jamb at least at the same level as the drywall? The casing will be stain grade maple so there is no room to fill any gap with caulking...

[Edward Oleen]

You are intending to make DOOR JAMS out of MAPLE????

Are you swimming in the stuff?????

As far as I can see, maple is far too expensive to use for door jams. If you must use a hardwood, use oak.

I mean - it IS going to be painted, isn't it? I can see fancy doors, but unless you are using tiger maple...

P.S. If you do have a superabundance of maple, can I have some???

[mreza Salav]

Ed, the doors are already made out of maple (see my link above), and the jambs, casing, trims, baseboards, everything will be stained (not painted).

[David Kumm]

I measure each wall width at the top corners and build the jambs to be slightly less- 1/32-1/16. You do not want the jambs proud of the wall at the miter joints or you will go crazy trying to keep the joints tight. Along the sides you can get away with a little variation in or out. Don't install the stops until the door is hung. I screw the hinge side on heavy doors under the stop and installing them after gives you a little adjustment if the wall isn't plumb. I use maple for paint grade, oak always looks like oak under the paint and maple doesn't get dented by the vacuum cleaner. Dave

Mreza, I also ease the edges of the doors and jambs with a 1/8" router bit. Maple really bangs up kids foreheads when the edges are left straight.

[mreza Salav]

Thanks Dave. I plan to use header (or door cap it is called?) on both sides, so there won't be a mitered casing to worry about as they butt against the door cap.
My thinking is the sides being a bit proud is better than low (you can have your casing over the jamb). I guess I have to wait until the drywalls are up and see how out of plumb each opening is (hopefully not much).
I certainly intend to screw the hinge side under the door stops to the wall as the doors are pretty heavy, and yes for easing the edges.

[David Kumm]

Also be very careful when attaching the header to the jamb. If it doesn't quite line up you will never get the molding flush. ( I know because I just had a carpenter take mine apart and when he reattached it it wasn't right and caused me fits.) I screw the hinge side header and nail the lock side to give me a little adjustment if needed. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

4 9/16 is typical for 2/4 walls, 4 5/8 is a bit more generous. Good drywallers don't typically add a lot of build up around door openings, there is just not that much reason to slap it on there. If the jamb is significantly proud of walls you can always take it down with a plane, and that will be fun using hard maple! Depends on the whole system (ie back bands with scribe? Wide/thick casing? Etc. ). But if you need to go much beyond 4 5/8 I'd be looking for better subs on the drywall and framing....probably too late for that. Can you actually measure at this point?

[Peter Quinn]

Problem with flush and plumb is they are two different conditions. If the framing is bad and they door framing is not plumb, everything else follows that. If a particular jamb is whacky, you may need a 10lb sledge to adjust the wall plate.....yup. Put a block down low against the bottom plate and move it. Of course this is better accomplished before flooring goes in and has its limits, but it can help should it be required. Having a plumb jamb in a bad opening will invariably lead to some very strange molding gaps or lots of scribing/filling. The big hammer can help.

[Brian W Smith]

Basically what Peter has written."4 9/16"....is or should,roll off the tongue when speaking home building 101.A slight back bevel is even sort of de riguer.....not absolute,but desirable.

Will spare the opine on prevailing attitudes that somehow "framing" isn't that big of deal..........suffice it to say,try trimming as a profession.Heck,try any skilled trade that comes after it.Just like a proper foundation is required if the structure has any chance of lasting....accurate,precise framing only strengthens all the "stuff" that comes later.IF,you are faced with less than perfect framing,its a balancing act WRT to the OP.And there are at least 3 or 4 prime considerations.One very important point is keeping the door frame "in phase".This means flat....no twist.

Imagine,and in practice(very helpful on dbl french doors)....using a string or chalkline to check this flatness.We are forming an X with the string,using whatever's convenient to hold the string at the frames corners.If the string dosen't come together at the center/crossing........then the frame isn't in "phase".

Fine homebuilding isn't for everyone.....just like working in really tight dimensions in the cabinet/mill shop.

[Paul Incognito]

All the pre-hung doors I've installed come with 4-9/16" jambs. This generally works ok. If the wall is a bit thicker in spots, you can beat the drywall thinner with a hammer. Just don't go beyond where trim will cover or you'll have some patching to do. I've found it's usually easier to do it this way than to make the jamb wider and potentialy having the casing away from the drywall. And once the casings are finished, I generally caulk them into the sheetrock. Keep a wet rag and bucket of water handy to keep the caulking neat.
Hope this helps,
Paul

[Justin Ludwig]

Peter, Paul and Brian (what, no Mary?) have it down. It's rare for me to get to hang doors on perfectly plumb walls. Use the trim the scribe a line on the side where the sheet rock needs to be removed as Paul said. On the side where the jamb will be proud, use a shim to hold the trim perpendicular to the jamb as it can be hidden with caulk at the painting stage. You can use shims behind the headers as well. If they are not flush, they can rock forward or backwards and depending on the molding profile of the casing this will also cause unsightly gaps. Shims, hammers, and patience.

As for hanging a door? I've yet to see two people do it the same. End result is all the matters in your case.

Cabinet makers blame drywall crew, drywall crew blame framers, framers blame concrete finishers, concrete finishers blame block layers, and block layers blame foundation crew. Foundation crew laughs at the bank. Foreman dies of heart attack at age 50.

[lowell holmes]

It's been awhile, but I seem to remember commercially available door jambs are 4 9/16". Also, I remember some (if not all) had an indent on the edge of the jamb that aided when lining up the door casing on the jamb.

A drywall tool that slips under the edge of a sheet of drywall allowing you to lift the sheet (with your foot) sure helps when hanging solid wood doors. An entrance door will weigh 150 to 200 pounds.

[mreza Salav]

Thanks to all for the comments.
Yes, I can go and measure/check the openings. In fact I have measured all the openings to see if the framer made them to what I said (2.5" wider than the door).
I didn't check to see if they are plumb. Generally the framer was good (for a 2 story 4555sqf house he passed inspection in the first shot) although I did some little fix ups here and there myself later. I guess I'll wait another couple of weeks until the drywall crew are done and then measure them again. I'll try to shoot between 4 9/16 and 4 5/8.

[Jeff Duncan]

There are many ways to skin a cat. I make pre-finished jambs out of solid stock since I'm not fond of the tacked on door stops. I just mill the rabbet out of 6/4 stock on the shaper. I measure the walls to make sure as there's no telling what the framers and drywall guys have done. Then I'll make my jambs the same thickness as the walls. I also back cut the casings leaving just a 1/8" lip that I can scribe to the walls. They will never be perfectly flat and with pre-finished you want as tight as possible. This is easy for me as my casings are more modern so not a lot of material to remove. With wider casings it will be a bit more difficult, but you'll also have a bit more wiggle room.

I can't find much for good pics of the pre-hung units I make right now, most of the doors I build are sliding setups. I do have this pic of a closet door on a job where I made something like 21 doors total.
http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx268/JDWoodworking/IMG_2320.jpg (http://s762.photobucket.com/user/JDWoodworking/media/IMG_2320.jpg.html)

good luck,
JeffD

[Mel Fulks]

I've found the trim carpenters are of two sorts on this. Some want the jambs a little wider and shim the casing and caulk.
Others want the jambs a bit narrower and hammer sheet rock as needed. I just ask them.

[Mark Bolton]

The 4 9/16" is the norm for the field areas. Thats simply the tally of two thicknesses of drywall and the framing plus a sixteenth of fudge for gaps behind the drywall. The issues comes in with the finishing or god forbid the hangers break a bunch of seams over the doors (hope youve addressed that and headed it off). Thats the killer when you get some jakey hangers who break a vertical over a door or the total worst at the corner. Its a total no-no but they can often try to sneak them in anyway rather than cutting back and bridging a full sheet over the door. The vertical seam (no bevel on the board) leaves a very thick joint.

We make sure the hangers never break anywhere near a door. Its a natural hinge point for a building and a guaranteed crack. Not to mention making it a real PITA to trim past.

[jack forsberg]

a back band heals all evils

[mreza Salav]

Care to elaborate more Jack?

[Jerome Stanek]

On some jambs they put a slight bevel to compensate for the walls

[Tom M King]

I have always built door jambs for 40 years, and never used a prehung door. I have it down to a science, starting with the framing.

I taper the sides, so that a straight edge laid on the wall hits the jamb a 1/4 or less before it gets to the opening. I don't know the angle. I have a point on the jointer I use by eye. It's not much though.

Side jambs are rabbeted for the head.

I don't like to have to shave a door, so the jamb is sized to fit the door. I add a total of 5/16's to the door width for the jamb opening. 1/8 on the hinge side, and 3/16 on the lock side. Cut a piece that size to hold the jambs that width at the bottom that just sits on the floor while you wedge the jamb plumb. I use a 76" level. I put screws behind where the stop will cover next to the hinges and lock.

I use templates I made for routing hinges, and lock strikes, and keep dedicated routers ready to go. The jamb template gets screwed to the jamb where the screw holes will get covered with the stop.

Once the door is hung, and lock set, it's time to set the stops. Start with the top stop. Press it against the lock side of the door so that it ever so slightly flexes the door out. Give the hinge side a little clearance. Cope the vertical stops. Nail the tops of the side stops. Press the lock side stop against the bottom of the door so it every so slightly flexes the door like the top of that one did. Hold the rest of it a hair off the door to the point that the most clearance is at the lock. Set the hinge side stop with a hair of clearance all the way.

The door should shut with a single kerchunk, and do it for decades if the framing holding all of this stuff was well done. Barring the hinges wearing out, the door should from this point on shut with no rattles.

I was in a house I built in 1974 last week. All the doors still shut well.

If the walls are going to be sheetrocked, never put butt joints, or any joints that can be avoided, over or near door or window jambs. When I built new houses, I built the whole thing, and didn't follow others because I have a way I want it all done, not only to end well, but for the whole process to flow well.

Before jambs are set, we paint the walls. All trim is finished at least on the edge that meets the wall, so that no cutting in is needed in finishing. A lot of time can be saved, and a near perfect result can be had with planning the whole process all the way through.

[jack forsberg]

if finish is my concern than i use jam bead and back band because them move to conform to the the walls in that plane. you can see here in my shop office that the jam bead and back band deal with any problems with the frame/wall.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/smallpanel013_zps85cff736.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/smallpanel013_zps85cff736.jpg.html)

you can see that the jam bead is not integral to the casein

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/smallpanel014_zpsa1c6071b.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/smallpanel014_zpsa1c6071b.jpg.html)

the back band is the same

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/smallpanel015_zpsea9a95d3.jpg (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/tool613/media/smallpanel015_zpsea9a95d3.jpg.html)



Care to elaborate more Jack?

[Chris Padilla]

Cabinet makers blame drywall crew, drywall crew blame framers, framers blame concrete finishers, concrete finishers blame block layers, and block layers blame foundation crew. Foundation crew laughs at the bank. Foreman dies of heart attack at age 50.

Hahahahahaha!!!! I just had an outburst in my staff meeting!! :)

[Tom M King]

That's why after the first couple of years, I learned how to do it all myself. A single skill craftsman will always leave something to be desired when his work joins the next, or previous craft.

[Mark Bolton]

When I built new houses, I built the whole thing, and didn't follow others because I have a way I want it all done

Musta been million dollar homes. ;-) we do a lot from start to finish and it can at times be nearly impossible to be truly profitable (by an accountants terms) when you do it all and omit subs.

General contracting is no place for a control freak. Lol.

[Justin Ludwig]

There's not market anywhere near me for building jams and/or doors. Everyone uses pre-hung. The last house I trimmed and built cabinets for had 8' solid knotty alder doors in the whole house and even those were pre-hung. We had to beat the heck outta sheetrock everywhere.

@Chris - I hope you didn't get in trouble. ;)

[Tom M King]

Musta been million dollar homes. ;-) we do a lot from start to finish and it can at times be nearly impossible to be truly profitable (by an accountants terms) when you do it all and omit subs.

General contracting is no place for a control freak. Lol.

Yes, and on waterfront. I only built one a year. I'd start in the Fall, finish the inside over the Winter, dress up the outside in the Spring, sell it, and play on the lake in Summer. I did it for 33 years, until things started getting out of hand, so I stopped in 2006. It was nothing like general contracting. I built a couple of houses for other people, but could never make half as much money, and MANY times the hassle. This way, no deadline, no "I don't know what I want, but that's not it" to deal with. I could find deals on materials and use them. I never put a price on a house until I was ready to sell it, and never kept one for over two weeks once I put a price on it. It was good while it lasted, but I could see the explosion coming, so the last new one I built was in 2006. Now I'm enjoying redoing old ones like they were originally. www.HistoricHousePreservation.com (http://www.HistoricHousePreservation.com)

[jack forsberg]

tom you know what it is to build. to build because you have too. to build because you are a builder. I like you.