Dovetail Question

[Glenn Samuels]

I don't know where I would find this answer through the search function so I will ask this basic question here. When cutting dovetails, do I want the good side of the board facing away from me or does it not really matter? I kind of remember reading something about this but it was quite a while ago. Thanks

[Jim Neeley]

My opinion...

With a western-style (push to cut) saw I want the good side towards me, since any tearout will be on the back side.

I'd imagine it'd be the other way around for a japanese (pull to cut) saw, but I'm only guessing.

Jim

[Glenn Samuels]

Jim, I am using a LN dovetail saw so that does make good sense. I really don't know why I was thinking the reverse.

[Don Jarvie]

It all depends how you lay out the DTs. For me I have the inside face me, pins first. Either way make sure you keep all of the sides oriented the same way.

[Mike Brady]

You want the show side of the joint to be facing you always when using western saws. That way the over-cuts, off-line cuts will be inside the case or drawer (the backside). Eventually you will notice less difference as your cutting gets to be square and consistent. I always put a small piece of blue tape ( the official color of dovetail cutting) on the show faces. Pencil marks can be hard to see on dark woods.

[Winton Applegate]

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Dovetail-Handmade-Furnitures-Signature/dp/0941936678/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1397795235&sr=1-1&keywords=ian+kirby

[Michael Fross]

I struggled for some time with hand cut dovetails. What really pushed me over was Cosman's Dovetail 2.0 DVD (the 2.0 is *much* better than the original). Step by step instruction that really helped me.

I lot of folks don't really like Rob's style, but I was very happy with the DVD.

[Jim Koepke]

I lot of folks don't really like Rob's style, but I was very happy with the DVD.

I do not now much about his 'style.'

He seems to have a few personality anomolies that a lot of people do not appreciate.

jtk

[Don Dorn]

I struggled for some time with hand cut dovetails. What really pushed me over was Cosman's Dovetail 2.0 DVD (the 2.0 is *much* better than the original). Step by step instruction that really helped me.

I lot of folks don't really like Rob's style, but I was very happy with the DVD.

Interesting you say that because I have the original. I have tried quite a few times to become a tails first dovetailer, but have struggled. In the end, I resorted back to how I learned which is Franks method of no measuring and pins first. That said, even though they are fast, strong and fit perfectly well, they just don't have the decorative look of Rob's skinny pins. Possibly I'll give version 2.0 a try.

[Jim Koepke]

Interesting you say that because I have the original. I have tried quite a few times to become a tails first dovetailer, but have struggled. In the end, I resorted back to how I learned which is Franks method of no measuring and pins first. That said, even though they are fast, strong and fit perfectly well, they just don't have the decorative look of Rob's skinny pins. Possibly I'll give version 2.0 a try.

If one wants dovetails with skinny pins when they make their pins first then they must first make their pins skinny.

Pins first preference vs tails first preference makes me wonder if there is a scientific reason (brain structure science) as to why some people find one way more natural for their way of doing things.

The funny thing is my being a tails first dovetailer I was doing a lot of practice to get the joint better. The funny part came when a set was done pins first and fit better than any of my other attempts. It didn't change my tails first approach but it did put me on the path to better fitting dovetails.

jtk

[Don Dorn]

If one wants dovetails with skinny pins when they make their pins first then they must first make their pins skinny.

Pins first preference vs tails first preference makes me wonder if there is a scientific reason (brain structure science) as to why some people find one way more natural for their way of doing things.

The funny thing is my being a tails first dovetailer I was doing a lot of practice to get the joint better. The funny part came when a set was done pins first and fit better than any of my other attempts. It didn't change my tails first approach but it did put me on the path to better fitting dovetails.

jtk

I'll be the first to admit that it seems to make sense to be tails first. The reason is that the critical part are then pins which are straight cuts. I've gotten used to cutting tails at the angle over time, but it did take practice.

[Derek Cohen]

If one wants dovetails with skinny pins when they make their pins first then they must first make their pins skinny.

Pins first preference vs tails first preference makes me wonder if there is a scientific reason (brain structure science) as to why some people find one way more natural for their way of doing things.

The funny thing is my being a tails first dovetailer I was doing a lot of practice to get the joint better. The funny part came when a set was done pins first and fit better than any of my other attempts. It didn't change my tails first approach but it did put me on the path to better fitting dovetails.

jtk

Hi Jim

One advantage of sawing tails first is that you can gang boards and cut 2 o more at the same time. This is especially useful with thin boards as it converts them into a thicker board, on which is easier to determine what is square.

When ganging boards there is also the advantage of creating a "back up" board to minimise tearout if this is important to one. It is irrelevant to me as the boards get planed afterwards anyway. The reason I have the outside/face side towards me when I saw is that I can pay attention to the baseline and avoid cutting into or over it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

I'll be the first to admit that it seems to make sense to be tails first. The reason is that the critical part are then pins which are straight cuts. I've gotten used to cutting tails at the angle over time, but it did take practice.

If you can't cut straight, then it doesn't matter what you start with? :confused:

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Well, I do tails first because I can do cuts perpendicular or plumb with no problem, but matching specific angles isn't always my strongest suit (although I don't think I'd have as many problems with it, now).

When you get to the critical matching part of the joint, where your second batch of cuts have to line up just right with what you've marked off the first, I have an easier time matching the angles when cutting pins, where I'm just lining up the start of my cut with a line across the top of the board, and just feel for plumb; than I do when matching the angles cutting tails, where I have to stay perpendicular to the board (easy) but also have to match the angle down the face (harder.)

I think part of it is how I have my work set up when cutting - I don't have a fancy vise thing to raise the work, and my bench is fairly low. It's never bothered me, because I like to saw with my arm/elbow at more of a right angle anyway, I don't like having my arms bunched up or crouching so I can saw something closer to me, but if I had the work higher up, it's be easier to approach the second (tails) cuts by watching both lines and cutting more on the "corner", with the saw at and angle, sort of how one would approach a tenon. With the work lower, it's easier for me to do the tails first, and the second cuts, I'm really just doing plumb by feel more than anything else.