Help with wooden smoother tuning

[Cody Cantrell]

I bought a New York Tool Co. smoother at an antique store this weekend. After flattening the sole, sharpening the iron and mating the chip breaker i gave it a test drive. This had an Auburn Tool Co Thistle Brand laminated iron in it and boy did it get sharp, it might be the easiest iron to raise a burr on that I have had experience with. This is the first wooden smoother I have ever used and I didnt have much success. The chips were jamming in the thoat, I took a pic of the chip, the mouth and the iron/chipbreaker. Any ideas why it is jamming?

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[Jim Koepke]

Cody,

I have very little experience with wooden bodied planes. Most of the practical matters between iron and wooden planes are the same. Your shavings look as if they are jamming against something. (Well duh! Isn't that what jamming/choking is all about?)

You may have mentioned your location in the past. I do not recall if you are near me. If you do, send me a PM.

The second picture looks odd. Almost as if the blade assembly is mounted with the blade on top and the chip breaker on the bottom.

The third image looks like the chip breaker is well away from the cutting edge. It also looks like there may be a slight gap at the front of the chip breaker where it sets on the blade. If there is any gap, crack, opening of any kind shavings will tend to find it and jam.

If all of these are proper, the only remaining thing that comes to mind is to move the plane across a piece of wood slowly and watch to see where the shavings catch and then determine what can be done to improve your results.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

Tips of the wedge? Any roughness in this area? Did the tips of the wedge bend inwards, so there is a shaving trap?

[Cody Cantrell]

Jim,
Thanks for the offer but I am a fair piece from you. I did update my location. The blade cannot go in upside down as the wedge would hit the screw that holds on the chip breaker. I think the pic looks weird because the original grind, which was done by hand, was already at 25 degrees although slightly convex. The chip breaker mated well except about 1/16" at each corner. I will try watching the chips exit, thanks for the help.

Kees,
The left wedge tip was chipped off, should I pare it back to a point? Make the other side match? Thanks

Cody

[Jim Koepke]

The left wedge tip was chipped off, should I pare it back to a point? Make the other side match? Thanks

You are welcome.

The wedge could be okay as is. If it is a problem you might need to make a new wedge. With this in mind if it isn't causing a problem it could be best to leave it alone. If there is a problem try paring with the understanding that it may need replacing.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

Yes watch the shaving and watch where it hangs up. That should give you a clue. In my experience it clogging often starts in the corners. Another idea, the wedge tips shouldn't extend beyond the hump of the capiron.

[Cody Cantrell]

Here is a picture of the chipped wedge.
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[Pat Barry]

The chips were jamming in the thoat, I took a pic of the chip, the mouth and the iron/chipbreaker. Any ideas why it is jamming?



I am going out on a limb and will say that the chip breaker is set too far back from the cutting edge. Right David?

[David Weaver]

That's a good guess, but the issue is more likely that there's not enough room at the wear or that there are snags at the wedge that are catching a chip. This exact issue is why I was so pushy about showing the picture of the try plane in the other thread.

Hopefully it's snags in this case and not the wear.

[Cody Cantrell]

If it is the wear what should be adjusted? The mouth opening or the angleof the wear? I will trim the wedge first.

[David Weaver]

Either or, but only a little at a time.

Looking at the picture above (middle one on the first post), I suspect it'll be the wedge, though.

[Steve Voigt]

It's hard to tell without a picture of the mortise innards. If you can take two pics, one with the blade and wedge installed and one without, that would help with the diagnosis.
I agree with Kees' points in post #6.

[Kim Malmberg]

Cody,
It's hard to say from your picture but picture no 2 seems to indicate that your edge has two bevels at differing angles, thinning out towards the corners. Any chance of a picture showing the cutting edge in better light?

[Winton Applegate]

Abbot needs his Costello, Jekyll needs his Hyde, Holmes his Watson etc.

Allow me to fill that role.
And a little OVER ALL plane user dude experience:

My observations of your photos ( note magnifying lens in my avatar) :

What wood is that ? Looks all soft and stuff. Try the plane on some walnut or basic straightish grained maple.

Clogging in the corners ? Give the blade the slightest camber if you haven't already. (the more I look at your blade the more it looks like the corners are lower than the middle (HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE ?) The plane and the surface are better off with a little camber and the chip will be coming more from the center of the blade.

NOTE THE CHIPS YOU SHOW ARE ALL ACCORDIONED
crinkly, winkley, stinkley . . .
as Holmes says "I find that suggestive".

My curl/chips come out smooth and straightish they roll up a bit but no crinkles.
loose the chip breaker. Or back it out of the way. Pointless things. Trouble makers. Why clog up the throat with a big thick hunk of iron ?

See what I mean ?

These chips aren't all crinkly


http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/noydb1/Theveryfirstcurls.jpg (http://s801.photobucket.com/user/noydb1/media/Theveryfirstcurls.jpg.html)

No thick hunk of iron in the way here.
What ?

:)

[Jack Curtis]

As Winton said, try it without the chipbreaker and see what happens. Usually if I have a clogging problem with wooden planes, a good blade sharpening cleans things up; but then I never use a chip breaker on wooden planes. Your blade looks thick enough to stand on its own as long as the wedge is good. Of course, removing the chip breaker may leave too much space below the blade abutments; so you may need to add temporary wedges to test things.

[Steve Voigt]

Jack, you can't just "try it without the chipbreaker." Western planes don't work that way. You would need to make a new wedge, but it would be way too thick and possibly wouldn't extend down far enough.

[Don Orr]

Certainly no expert here but it appears there is some kind of gunk (highly technical term) built up in the front corners of the mouth in the 2nd pic in the original post. If jamming often happens in the corners maybe just a good cleaning might help.

[Derek Cohen]

I bought a New York Tool Co. smoother at an antique store this weekend. After flattening the sole, sharpening the iron and mating the chip breaker i gave it a test drive. This had an Auburn Tool Co Thistle Brand laminated iron in it and boy did it get sharp, it might be the easiest iron to raise a burr on that I have had experience with. This is the first wooden smoother I have ever used and I didnt have much success. The chips were jamming in the thoat, I took a pic of the chip, the mouth and the iron/chipbreaker. Any ideas why it is jamming?

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Hi Cody

If your throat is jamming with shavings, there can be three possible causes:

1. The mouth is too small and the shavings taken are too thick (blade projection is too great). From your picture the mouth is not small. Are you trying to take thick or thin shavings? Try a shallower setting.

2. The chipbreaker is too close to the edge of the blade for the size of the mouth, with the result that shavings jam (as per #1). Pulling the chip breaker back allows shavings to flow more easily towards the rear of the mouth.

3. The angle of the escapement is too high to permit shavings to flow - again essentially closing up the mouth. You could open the escapement more, however this plane work properly once upon a time. So, if all the parts are original, the issue you are facing has to be in the way it is set up.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Weaver]

A reasonable test to see if it's the wear or the wedge (if it's hard to tell where shavings are caught first) is to camber the iron off at the corners so that no shavings are made at the corners, set the cap iron close and then try it again. If it catches in the wear, you have an issue with the wear that can sometimes be solved as easily as cleaning the wear (if the wear is caked with something and not smooth, it might be a problem). I always scrape or lightly pare (not removing wood) the wear and wax it first before I adjust it if the wear is proving to be a problem.

I have had planes that were vintage that were clean and where the double iron set close didn't work. That's not an acceptable situation and suggests that the plane wasn't made properly (on the more vintage planes, it's never been the wear, always a shrunken wedge or something like that that creates a snag).